Blazblue Revisions

[ThePerpetual]

So first off,

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:ThePerpetual/Blazblue:_Take-Mikazuchi_fires_a_laser

This happened.

Secondly, a rather important piece of Blazblue lore/plot point, the Black Beast is capable of destroying the world. This has been pointed out by: Ragna himself a time or two, Rachel Alucard (a time-traveling seeingly all-knowing vampire who gave Ragna what is now his main source of power), etc. It being able to do so is a central plot point around which the series has revolved since the first game, and it's established that, without Bloodedge/Full Power Hakumen around, no one would be able to deal with this. On top of it all, this actually did occur in one of Continuum Shift's bad endings, as pointed out on the Black Beast's BlazBlue wiki page.

Yes, I know that much of/most of the planet =/= ALL of it, but it should still count for Small Planet level/Small Planet level+, if not simply Planet level.

One last thing: Makoto's astral finish is probably a gag feat and/or outlier. It's pretty firmly established that nothing (sans full-power Hakumen or Ragna, and maayyyyybe Rachel) are really able to match the thing, and that it world-busting is something that people can't let happen, else it's game over. Given it was calculated to be Large Planet? ...yeah, that doesn't make much sense.

Kokonoe's Astral... maybe counts? I dunno.

 

[Brunout]

Well, since its about blazblue, can ya answer me something?

Is hakumen power limitless inside Blazblue's universe?

 

[ThePerpetual]

When the game refers to Hakumen being supplied with "limitless energy" via the Susano'o Unit, it means as in limitless stamina and power with which to perform his attacks. Not that his damage output is infinite: hence, why it supplying him with "incredible power" (Note: NOT infinite) is listed seperately.

Edit: Even if it did mean infinite attack potency, such would assuredly be hyperbole/ludicrous outlier.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Calc looks good.

World can also refer to its population, as well as Universe or even multiverse. Clarification would be appreciated.

 

[Brunout]

Edit: Even if it did mean infinite attack potency, such would assuredly be hyperbole/ludicrous outlier.

Er, no. in the scan that I sent, It says that the larger the threat, the larger this power(the power of order) grows.

What I'm trying to ask is if that would put him with limitless potential inside Blazblue(In the first comment I said limitless power, my mistake)

 

[ThePerpetual]

Potential? Maybe. We can't really assume that he's always going to be at least as strong as whoever he's fighting as long as he's in the Blazblue world, though, such would be subject to no-limits fallacy.

 

[Zeldasmash]

Damn, that is quite the calc. Basically everyone would be Relativisitc in speed and around 5-C with this calc.

 

[ThePerpetual]

@Regulator The Black Beast has previously gone on a rampage, killing well over half the world's population and spreading its seithr everywhere before the Six Heroes (and by Six Heroes I mean mostly Hakumen) put a stop to it. It wasn't destroying anything at the time, it was more or less just killing people because it wanted to. This much is expressed seperately from its potential world-destroying power should it be rereleased; furthermore, the "will of the world", i.e. the reason Jin arrived to the world when he did, is firmly established to not be the will of humanity: humanity granted the world its will.

"Long before the repeating, barren history of the world... Further than when Black Beast materialized. Humanity had come into contact with the Boundary. ... The world gained will due to the hands of man. In accordance to its will, the world has determined the future where humanity should tread."


-Clavis, BlazBlue: Phase Shift 2, Chapter 4

In other words, humanity and the world are two entirely seperate entities in the BlazBlue-verse. Destroying the world would not be the same as wiping all life off of it.

That said, there's no reason to assume that this extends to the universe or multiverse itself, for a number of reasons:

A: Nothing implies they mean this, and B: The planet and the world are often used synonymously by knowledgeable characters within the series.

Making everyone in Blazblue Universal based on the assumption that they're referring to the whole Universe when most characters treat planet-busting as a fairly big deal seems like immense inflation of their abilities, to me.

 

[Zeldasmash]

I'm OK with this change.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm going to assume that the world = planet, and in that case, agree with the changes.

If not, then it kinda sounds like an outlier.

 

[Alakabamm]

I disagree, destroying the civilization left on the surface of the planet is not the same as planet busting or even close to planet busting. You can barely even make any sort of continental argument from it and that is without considering that there is a large time factor here that is simply not being considered.

Is that image from the manga?

 

[Zeldasmash]

I disagree, destroying the civilization left on the surface of the planet is not the same as planet busting or even close to planet busting. You can barely even make any sort of continental argument from it and that is without considering that there is a large time factor here that is simply not being considered.
Is that image from the manga?

But the Take-Mikazuchi is almost as strong as the Black Beast. If the Take-Mikazuchi is almost as strong as the Black Beast and it can destroy the planet at it's full power, doesn't that mean the Black Beast is also planet level?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

It's entirely possible to use world to refer to planet in one instance, and population in the other. That is, it being separated from population in one instance does not necessarily affect later statements as such unless given more information on the planet busting moment in lore or the bad ending I'm also doubtful on such a logia being used.

 

[Zeldasmash]

I think the Relativistic speed should be edited in. Is that OK or should we wait for the whole "planet-busting" to be agreed on?

 

[Man_from_Shadow]

If we could get actual scans for this,that would be nice.

 

[Brunout]

If we could get actual scans for this,that would be nice.

About the Black Beast destroying the planet?

 

[Zeldasmash]

This happens in Ragna's Bad Ending in Continuum Shift. He loses control, turns into the Black Beast and destroys almost the whole planet.

 

[Man_from_Shadow]

If we could get actual scans for this,that would be nice.

About the Black Beast destroying the planet?

Being said to be capable of that or actually doing it

 

[Zeldasmash]

If we could get actual scans for this,that would be nice.

About the Black Beast destroying the planet?

Being said to be capable of that or actually doing it

This happens in Ragna's Bad Ending in Continuum Shift where he lost control and turned into the Black Beast. Unfortunately, there is no image showing this, it's just told through text.

 

[Alakabamm]

"Destroying the planet" is never literally taken as planet level without proof of destruction. Based on previous times "the planet has been destroyed" or "nearly destroyed" in Blazblue, this is not even close to planet level. So, again, I disagree.

 

[Man_from_Shadow]

https://youtu.be/EjTpGcPQh4Y

This is only what I could find and it isn't said here

 

[Brunout]

Here, about the beast "destroying"

the entire planet


After the bad ending, Kokonoe confirms that

 

[Alakabamm]

well, again, it was never shown (and thus confirmed as actual full planetary destruction), plus that is an omake (typically non-canon).

 

[Zeldasmash]

The Black Beast can affect things on a planetary scale though (proven by spreading seither through the entire planet). I know affecting things on a planetary scale isn't the same as planet busting but isn't the Black Beast stronger then the Take-Mikazuchi, a being that can blow up the planet at full power? Wouldn't that scale the Black Beast to planet level?

 

[Alakabamm]

Well, as I said before, I don't quite see Take-Mikazuchi as being planet level. The only picture we are shown of the blast is not even close to it, as the calc recently showed.

I'm not contesting Black Beast > Take-Mikazuchi per se....just that I don't think either are planet level.

 

[ThePerpetual]

That omake is a "Teach Me, Miss Litchi" segment, if I'm not mistaken, which were made specifically to teach people the lore of the series due to its complexity. What they say there should be taken seriously, generally speaking.

On top of that, attacks like this are put into use by Kokonoe and are referenced in-canon; if this isn't destroying the world, well, I'm pretty sure taht "destroying the world" is in fact destroying the world.

I mean, take a look at Makoto and her Astral "Planet Crusher". Does it have gag feat written all over it? Sure, probably. Does it clearly illustrate what Blazblue means by destroying (Crushing) a planet? Certainly.

And yeah, Take-Mikazuchi < Black Beast, that much seems pretty consistently agreed upon in the series to my understanding.

By the by, another Blazblue calc if anyone cares. This one should even scale to the low-tiers (and it's a convenient link to Makoto's Astral, if you've not seen it; I couldn't find a good standalone vid online)

 

[Alakabamm]

It is actually from "Help me, Professor Kokonoe," a similar type of segment but one made to guide the player.

I don't take Astral Finishes as canon unless they are shown to be, again. GG was different because of the blog I mentioned.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Wasn't there a thread a while back where it was agreed upon that Astrals were canon in large part, and their use/lack thereof influenced which ending you get?

 

[Zeldasmash]

Overuse of Astrals could net you bad endings in Continuum Shift (Tsubaki). It was also stated that Mori said the Astrals are canon to those who finished their time loop, which explained why you needed to play through the Arcade mode to unlock them in Calamity Trigger. Since everyone from then on had them in their natural moveset, does that mean that everyone completed their time loop, thus they are canon?

Dark Susano'o, Immortal Breaker and Time Killer were used Astrals.

 

[Brunout]

Well, If we count what shows in the manga, which tells the events of calamity trigger, at least things like the distortion drives,

would be somewhat canon, 'cause Ragna pretty much does a "Devored by darkness" on Jin

 

[Zeldasmash]

In that Tager calc page, how fast is that speed calc?

Edit: Never mind. Ignore that. XD

Also, didn't we use Azrael's Astral to describe his AP?

 

[ThePerpetual]

Should I go ahead and apply the revisions now that everything's wrapped up? We can always go back and re-edit if something comes up.

 

[Alakabamm]

What are the revisions?

 

[ThePerpetual]

Everything listed above

We have evidence and statements that Astrals are canon now, we have evidence that mean we can take the statements/alternate ending thing seriously, and no one has seriously refuted either of the two calculations

 

[Alakabamm]

I already told you I disagree with the planet level upgrade.

 

[ThePerpetual]

And why is that? The only reasoning you've given thus far is ""Destroying the planet" is never literally taken as planet level without proof of destruction.", and multiple people have provided such proof: evidence that they've literally straight-up said so, that the Blazblue Wiki says so, that "destroy" in the context they're referring to is actual destruction, and that Astrals are canon, the same Astrals that are further evidence that "destruction" in BlazBlue is what one usually thinks of when discussing conventional discussion.

 

[Zeldasmash]

And that the Black Beast is stronger then the Take-Mikazuchi, who can blow up the planet at full power as stated by Nine, one of the creators of it, in Central Fiction. Hell, she plans to use it in Central Fiction for exactly that reason.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Can we get that statement? I've not played Central Fiction yet, unfortunately.

 

[Alakabamm]

They have not provided any such proof. Razing the surface of the planet is not planet level. A statement from a gag segment is not trustworthy and furthermore suffers the same problem as the previous statement. There has never been a canon planet destruction feat before, or even something approaching it.

So no, you are wrong that my arguments aren't legitimate. There is nothing suggesting this at all.

 

[Zeldasmash]

It's showcased if i recall in Nine's Arcade Mode in Act 3. @ThePerpetual