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Blazblue Revisions

That's not the argument in play. The arguments are that:

- Blowing up a planet is not equal to razing it's surface. Never once did anyone mention destroying the planet's surface; they would cover the planet's surface in seithr to empower the Take-Mikazuchi.

- This so-called "gag segment" can't merely be brushed off because it's purpose is, as you've said, to guide the player. It's making a statement based on pre-established lore; if it is truly trying to "guide the player", it wouldn't make a statement of the sort based on something that has never happened.

- Yes, there have been feats that approached the destruction of a planet. In one of the bad endings of Continuum Shift, most of the world was destroyed simply by the Black Beast simply being released: both the Take-Mikazuchi's laser and Kokonoe's Astral definitely approach widespread devastation that goes deeper than just the surface of the planet, nevermind Makoto's Astral (which we're only not bringing up because it's usually considered a gag feat.)

- The sheer number of times the Black Beast has been pointed out to be able to destroy the world (and in the most recent game, "blow up", something that can't possibly be confused for merely razing the surface) in the main story rather renders the second point irrelevant regardless.

If there were mostly just City-busters or the like present in the cast, I'd be more inclined to be skeptical. As is, everything suggests that everyone who's cited the Black Beast as a planet-buster has not in the slightest referred merely to it's surface.

The most logical path is the one that requires the least assumptions, and there is no reason to assume that they are referring to merely the planet's surface when they refer to "the world" or "the planet" rather than, you know, the world or the planet. When multiple people in the series: several who are geniuses/have scientific backgrounds/have lived for hundreds if not thousands of years: all refer to the same thing as being able to destroy the planet? I'm not going to assume they mean "the planet's surface".
 
The instances of the planet actually being "destroyed" involve only the surface being razed. There has never been any other instance of destruction shown, in detail.

The "gag segment" is in fact plagued by the same issue as above and again it is not a serious segment at all. It doesn't matter if it was meant to guide the player. Nothing suggests it is canon.

The black beast razes the planet. Kokonoe's astral is NOT CANON. Again, until you can show me how it is canon besides a statement that may imply it is canon (which, btw, it wouldn't be because it shouldn't be part of her loop), then it isn't.

Again, the surface of the planet. And I don't recall where it says blow up? Are you referring to CF? That says "destroy the planet" and refers to Take-Mikazuchi, which, again, is never shown.

There has never been anything above surface level destruction shown. I don't need to prove that it can't not be planet level; that is a ridiculous burden of proof. Your argument that it is relies on many suppositions which are never justified by image and so they fail to meet your burden of proof.

So, the most reasonable answer is the surface, because there is only ever surface destruction shown. Not the whole planet. And frankly? It is reasonable to call destroying the planet the same as destroying the surface. To regular people, it makes no difference because a surface ending event would destroy their lives anyways.

These are also not new points that you bring up and it is the last time I will respond to them. If you have nothing new to bring to the table, I oppose planet level.
 
Also, when the black beast originally "destroyed the planet" (referred to it like that several times), it was just surface destruction.
 
What do you mean it wouldn't be part of her loop? It's a contraption that Kokonoe built. She's this universes equivalent of Iron Man/Dr. Doom: she can think of anything and she can build it (she can somehow summon a black hole by throwing her lolipop at the ground......).

Also, Kokonoe has been in the series since Calamity Trigger, i'm pretty sure she did her timeloop at this point (everyone from Continuum Shift onward had their Astrals by default so, yeah).
 
You mean when the Black Beast was rampaging across the world? That wasn't any attempt to destroy the planet itself. That was it simply rampaging about and destroying humanity. There is no rhyme or reason to its methods. You're trying to apply the results of one attack against humanity to an entirely seperate event: the potential destruction of the world if it is released again: that doesn't work.

You keep saying "the same issue as above." So going back, the issues you've listed thus far appear to be: "is not trustworthy", even though I literally just explained why they are trustworthy, and "they have not provided proof", as if they need to spell it out for everyone even more clearly than they already have multiple times over. Yes, yes it DOES matter. You're ignoring the argument, not answering it.

Burden of proof doesn't lie upon me to prove that a gameplay feat is valid. What more do you want, for the game to stop and say "Hey, look at that cool thing you just did in-gameplay!! That's totally canon. Be sure to remember that in case you run a Vs Battles Wiki somewhere or something!!" You yourself had no problem whatsoever with Tager's Astral counting as a feat, don't contradict yourself.

Don't know what to tell you on Nine's statement, if we could get a scan we'd know for sure. Not that it's exceedingly relevant, given it's another statemnet regardless.

Shown? Of course it's not "shown", most of the game's story mode is told in still-frame, with no motion from any of the characters, only occasionally interjected by short cutscenes. If the argument is that it has to be shoved into our faces with a close-up cutscene to be legitimate planetary destruction, then I simply cannot agree. Lore comes first, and the lore reads "destroy", again and again, the definition of destroy in no way pertaining to ruin or make uninhabitable. Destroy means destroy.

As for the last point, again, this is making the assumption that we're talking about normal people. Genius scientists that drop cataclysmic meteors from the sky and time-traveling vampires that have themselves observed this alternate timeline happen in person? They're not going to look at events in the same way.

But yeah, getting sort of tired of repeating myself as well. We're just going to have to wait a bit, I suppose.
 
Can we at least give the characters the speed buff?

If not planet level, how about Multi-Continental, or even Moon level (Kokonoe's Astral is definitely a moon buster).

As for the Astrals, we have used Azrael's Astral to prove Azrael's AP, Tager's Astral was used in speed calc's and the Dark Susano'o is a Key for Terumi. If Astral's aren't canon (bar Makoto's), then how come these Astrals were used for calcs? It doesn't make sense and is rather self-contradictory to your notion (Alakabamm) that Astral's aren't canon (and if Tager's is canon and/or accepted, Kokonoe's should be accepted by default).
 
So, aside from this whole Planet level stuff, anyone mind summarizing what would be changed if this thread is accepted?
 
In the Take-Mikazuchi laser blog, it was said that the characters (at least the top tier ones) were around 6-B (Black Beast > Take Mikazuchi which is around Country level at the moment) and due to the speed of the laser of the Mikazuchi buffs the speed of most of the top tiers to Relativistic to almost Light speed.

In Tager's blog, it was said that the entire cast (moreso the mid/low tiers) are all Massively Hypersonic+ in speed (so why can't all the Astrals sans Makoto's be accepted as canon, i guess we'll never know).

Speaking of which, shouldn't we classify the characters in their respected tiers (ex: God Tiers, Top Tiers, High Tiers, Mid Tiers, Low tiers)?
 
Then I have no particular issue with these changes.

I'll leave Perpetual and Alak to continue discussing the Planet level business.
 
I don't have any issues with these changes as well.

Edit: Hmm. If they're being upgraded to this level of AP, they should also have their Striking Strength be upgraded as well.
 
Zeldasmash said:
In the Take-Mikazuchi laser blog, it was said that the characters (at least the top tier ones) were around 6-B (Black Beast > Take Mikazuchi which is around Country level at the moment) and due to the speed of the laser of the Mikazuchi buffs the speed of most of the top tiers to Relativistic to almost Light speed.
In Tager's blog, it was said that the entire cast (moreso the mid/low tiers) are all Massively Hypersonic+ in speed (so why can't all the Astrals sans Makoto's be accepted as canon, i guess we'll never know).

Speaking of which, shouldn't we classify the characters in their respected tiers (ex: God Tiers, Top Tiers, High Tiers, Mid Tiers, Low tiers)?
We could use some more profiles before we do that. I'd help but I'm not that well versed in the series to help much.
 
CrossverseCrisis said:
I don't have any issues with these changes as well.
Edit: Hmm. If they're being upgraded to this level of AP, they should also have their Striking Strength be upgraded as well.
I can fix that.
 
Can somebody explain and quote the exact "destroying the world" statement?

The question seems to be whether it should be interpreted as destroying civilisation, or taken as blowing up planets, and whether this fits with other demonstrations of power within the lore.
 
For the record:

Without intermediate feats we can't list the characters that are stronger than Tager but weaker than Take-Mikazuchi as anything but "At least Town level" or "At least Town level, likely higher", so this should probably be taken into account.

I don't know about the Planet level statement. Maybe "At least 6-B, possibly 5-B" would be appropriate.
 
I would go with that as well, Promestein. On the Tager one.

Not sure about the Planet level one, however. I'm staying away from that until it gets worked out here....
 
"At least 6-B, possibly 5-B (Unknown whether a "destroying the world" statement referred to human civilisation or should be taken literally)" might work as a compromise, yes.
 
That could work, yes. But even then, that's about as far as i'd agree to on that. No more, no less...
 
What do you think about the compromise suggestion Alakabamm?
 
Okay then. Thank you for being so reasonable.
 
However, you will have to provide proper logical explanations for the statistics within the profiles.
 
Well...


Nine in phase shift novel said that Hakumen was the only one who could trade blows with the black beast

Rachel said that Izanami is even stronger than the black beast, and stated that Hakumen at FP has chances of defeating her (also, Izanami stated that she could effortless kill Terumi, something that he didn't denied).

Azrael while heavily restricted could match Ragna with the IDEA engine, so maybe (just maybe) he at full power could match Hakumen FP
 
I mean that, according to our regulations, there should be matter-of-fact reliable explanations for the statistics within the character profiles themselves.
 
Itisprobably better if ThePerpetual handles modifying the character profile statistics.
 
Okay, but that statement could mean anything. We need explanations for why that places various statistics at a certain level.
 
A bit late for this, but something along the lines of what Antvas suggested should work as a compromise for now

If something comes up later, we can always revisit this topic then, after all.
 
Even though i usually do the upgrade edits, it's preferable if you do the upgrade edits since you have more knowledge on how to make the pages look as good as possible.
 
Alright, got it. A bit preoccupied atm, I'll get to it as soon as possible.

Also, I'm pretty sure several profiles are missing some of their abilities/tchniques or explanations on them, I'll have to look into that.
 
Now, if I'm correct in assuming, Terumi is Type 8 Immortal as he observes himself, yes?

Edit: Sorry ant, I not asking you it just did that for some reason.
 
Takamagahara observed him since Calamity Trigger, then when Noel broke the timeloop in the ending, she inadverdently started observing Terumi, until Chrono Phantasma where he was killed. That's when he used "self-observation" to bring himself back to life.

Hazama also has some form of Immortality due to his Life Link with Noel (and by technical extension Ragna & Nu since Nu was officially identified as Noel under the Eye of the Azure in Chrono Phantasma)
 
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