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Black Clover Licht's problems

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I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
@Epsilon R

You don't know how to defend your points without using fallacies.

Kotodama Devil assuming that he could defend himself against Lumiere's blows doesn't make him comparable to the attack that Lumiere claimed to be unable to defend himself. Say that "both are demons, they should be comparable for that" is stupid on the same level as saying that "Gauche and Lumiere are both human and therefore they should be comparable too". Don't use fallacies, use arguments.

Lumiere thinks he could defend himself against Licht's strongest attack at the first time, but literally in a second later he takes an opposite view of it. And yes the "block" means defend himself he saw this pretty clear.

Put that in your mind. Lumiere wasn't nerfied to the point of fall a single tier (Let's suppose he would have fall to 7-B, in theory he would have been left thousands times weaker since he at base would be Low 6-B). The only thing that supports your idea is the fact that his chest was bleeding, bleed is something normal when you go into battles. There is not even a mention of him being severely weakened in this scene. Again, drop this. It's the second time I've debunked this.

The real conclusion is: Only Licht should still Low 6-B with his Strongest Spell. No one scale to him.
 
KingOFG said:
@Epsilon R

You don't know how to defend your points without using fallacies.

Kotodama Devil assuming that he could defend himself against Lumiere's blows doesn't make him comparable to the attack that Lumiere claimed to be unable to defend himself. Say that "both are demons, they should be comparable for that" is stupid on the same level as saying that "Gauche and Lumiere are both human and therefore they should be comparable too". Don't use fallacies, use arguments.

WTF are you saying? It does make WD comparable to Demon Licht because Lumière's blows were able to harm Licht. Unless you proves that Demon Licht's durability actually became weaker or is weaker than his AP in general, there's no reason for the Word Devil nor Lumiere to not scale.

Lumiere thinks he could defend himself against Licht's strongest attack at the first time, but literally in a second later he takes an opposite view of it. And yes the "block" means defend himself he saw this pretty clear.

Not at all, he is just questioning himself. "Can I block this" is litteraly the only thing he said about not tanking the attack, he never outright said that he can't block it. Also you are just assuming it means tanking the attack without any evidence. You haven't debunked this point.

Put that in your mind. Lumiere wasn't nerfied to the point of fall a single tier (Let's suppose he would have fall to 7-B, in theory he would have been left thousands times weaker since he at base would be Low 6-B). The only thing that supports your idea is the fact that his chest was bleeding, bleed is something normal when you go into battles. There is not even a mention of him being severely weakened in this scene. Again, drop this. It's the second time I've debunked this.

Put that in your mind: First, you don't need to fall of a tier to not be able to block an attack (Idek why you are using tiers to prove your point btw). Second, as I said earlier, we have no proof that block the attack actually means tanking it. And even if it does, we don't even know if he would actually be killed by the attack because not being able to block it doesn't mean he would be killed. Heck, it doesn't even mean he would be knocked out.

And Sure... Being mortally wounded is not enough is not being severely weakened, sure...

The real conclusion is: Only Licht should still Low 6-B with his Strongest Spell. No one scale to him.
Click to expand...
You litteraly debunked none of what I said...
 
ShadowGun45 said:
and then, will it be downgraded to 7-A or are we still considering the Low 6-B feat ?
Click to expand...
Only Licht should still be Low 6-B tho. I think that has been well decided here. Most of people are agreeing with the downgrade.
 
Epsilon, do not reverse the burden of proof, it was you who assumed that Lumiere was weakened and was refuted in your attempt to prove it.
 
Only Licht should still be Low 6-B tho. I think that has been well decided here. Most of people are agreeing with the downgrade.

what's the argument for him to be 6-B ? just to know
 
Epsilon, I will not waste my time explaing these things for you for the third time

The majority here agree to we apply the downgrade? If yes I'll start edit the profiles tomorrow when i come back from my job.
 
KingOFG said:
The majority here agree to we apply the downgrade? If yes I'll start edit the profiles tomorrow when i come back from my job.
Click to expand...
But you're pretty much confusing two things. Everyone agrees with downgrading, but also that the Low 6-B is valid.
 
from what I saw here, we are accepting that only Demon Litch is Low 6-B and the rest will go back to City+ or Mountain, am I wrong?
 
I'm pretty sure "The majority here" doesn't agree with that, just that there are way too many people scaling to this feat and many of them should be downgraded to City level.
 
honestly, I can't see where they say the whole country is going to be destroyed. does anyone have the raw of the chapter or the official translation of it?
 
Epsilon R said:
Like you have actually explained them
Click to expand...
I already did it several times. You will not win an discussion using flabby fallacies to try to belittle my point.
 
@Ionliosite

Yes, the Low 6-B is valid for Licht and only him. Mirch, Ryuga, Rocker, me, Prince, Ah Gou and even Ant agreed with that. The only one who is opposing this using desperate fallacies is Epsilon.
 
KingOFG said:
@Ionliosite

Yes, the Low 6-B is valid for Licht and only him. Mirch, me and even Ant agreed with that. The only one who is opposing this using desperate fallacies is Epsilon.
Click to expand...
I ask you to read the thread again if you think only Epsilon thinks no one should scale to that feat.
 
His feat scale to himself. Btw, Epsilon's proposal is that Lumiere scale to Licht's strongest spell, something that more than 7 members counting a staff member like Ant himself disagree with.

Mitch even spoke below the Epsilon commentary about the final results (7-B to 7-A) so show me who besides Epsilon agrees that the Low 6-B scales to other people.
 
well, there seems to be less people who agree that they should be cast for more people

I looked at everything again and I agree with the relegation, but Demon Litch must still be Low 6-B
 
It's actually 8-4 if we go by your logic of not counting Epsilon, who has refuted all your arguments many times at this point.
 
Yes, I was refuted by a guy who think that two characters can be equals just by share the same race. Actually is just 2 people disagreeing, Peter never really claimed to be opposite or in favor of what was presented.
 
KingOFG said:
Duedate disagrees with the feat being incalculable, he said nothing about scaling
Click to expand...
Eh, you're right on that. Honestly, I think that a few can scale since I find it weird to believe that the Demon Licht drops literally tiers after he finally stops moving with no prior damage at all. Who I think scales, I'll have to look over a bit before I have any suggestions for that
 
There is no evidence that he could generate a Low 6-B feat casually. He didn't drop any tier.
 
But we have no reason that he wouldn't survive his own attack. And we then see Lumiere hit him after that and kill him.
 
What? He was not targeting his attack on himself but on the Clover Kingdom. Lumiere kill him doesn't prove anything.
 
I mean, but he's in the Clover Kingdom? He would naturally get hit by his own attack since it's an explosion.
 
I'd be fine with Low 6-B scaling to the Devil if there was actual evidence or statements of such a thing, but I haven't heard or been told any of these reasons
 
Duedate8898 said:
I mean, but he's in the Clover Kingdom? He would naturally get hit by his own attack since it's an explosion.
Click to expand...
Not exactly, he was in front of the kingdom
 
Why are we assuming his durability isn't comparable to his AP ? Do we have a sentence claiming he wouldn't survive it?
 
Maybe because the attack never fired to begin with?

And just because it is his strongest attack (and were not even sure it is, it's just the strongest attack he did in the battle), doesn't mean it has to be far above his durability.

Most if not all BC characters have their durability relative to their AP, sometimes even higher. There's barely any Glasscannon in the verse. On top of that we have no reason to believe he wouldn't survive it. Besides, knowing how the Word Devil is, he would've said it if it was the case
 
KingOFG said:
Agreeing: DemonGodMitchAubin, Ryuga21, Siegfired10, Antvasima, Ah Gou, Shadowgun 45, The Prince of Counters, Lenne Charlotte Typhoon, Dragonmasterxyz.

Disagreeing: Epsilon R, Ionliosite.
Click to expand...
Seems like a biased list. Ant and and Dragonmaster never gave their agreement.

Dragonmaster just agreed on downgrading the Apostles and those who scale to them (Which even I and Ion agreed with)

And there's also Duedate8898 that agrees for the Apostles downgrade, but said nothing for the rest
 
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