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Black Clover General Discussion thread

I forgot, but they will probably try to reopen it with the 'Conceptual Space' argument. So, if we get it to CM2, we'll win next time too.
 
Bastolan27 said:
Make a CRT for CM in BC. If y'all get it to CM2, we can win the Yami vs Gojo VS.
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We already had CM2 at one point, but was bumped down to CM3 after another crt, just as a heads up.

Actually you might be right, it was the twins downgraded not glamourworld. This could be used to get them back in CM2 since the twins should be superior to Morros individually.
 
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I would have done it but it's like the CM standards are always changing. I'm lost atp

If someone is good at stuff like this, you're free to give it a try
 
vsbattles.com

Asta vs Ichigo

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Asta_(Final_Saga) vs https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Ichigo_Kurosaki_(Post-Timeskip) Both High 6-A SBA otherwise Speed =
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Been meaning to, bring this to some of yall attention to see if a CRT should be made.

So gravity magic can directly counter the negation properties of anti-magic if strong enough. However, another way its been shown to bypass the nullification caveat , is weaponizing the environment around it, to physically counter it.

We've seen this with terrain manipulation such as when Dante used it, to rip out chunks of earth and throw them Asta, and even trees. Moreover, Dante has used gravity magic to physically warp space and change the trajectory of anti-magic despite the fact that it has resistance to spatial manipulation. So he manipulated his environment to counter the negation properties.

I've recently gotten my hands on the volume release that covers the awakened 50% Lucifero vs Asta, Yuno, Yami and Nacht sequence which has much more clear graphics. Lucifero begins to violently warp space, which not only affects the spells, but also the physical environment around it. Within this warp spaced everything is wildly contorted/pulverized since space is being warped and violently distorted. This prevents others from approaching Lucifero since getting caught in thee warp essentially means death, Asta included.

However, Asta uses infinite slash to cut through space, which appears to function more as an instantaneous spatial tear of anti-magic, rather than something that traveled horizontally. I didn't notice this until I got my hands on the volume release that haD the graphic corrections, since the weekly release was very poor quality for the warping texture. With that being said,
Lucifero only dodged the attack via spatial warp after Asta accidently revealed his position in Kids playground dye to his overflowing anti-magic aura

Furthermore, Nacht's arm was caught in said warped space hence promoting Asta to cut through said space again via demon-slasher and you can literallyseem him slocing through that same warped texture. It's important to note these are environmental effects that are resisted and not straight up nullified, but Asta cut through them.

Whenever Asta launches slashes that travels horizontally, they're indicated with some type of trail, residue or speed line.

When Asta was for slicing up the 5 headed dragon with demon slasher, doesn't seem like any projectile was launched, and the
Anti-magic only spilling out from the edge of the cuts/wound, yet we don't see any slash traveling. Same thing with worm Lucifero that was bisected, there's no indication of a traveling slash, only anti-magic emanating/splitting out from the cut (you can even see some of worm Luciferio's insides) unlike hid other normal slashes in DU and so on. Yet when Ichika cut it, it's made pretty clear that her cuts in fact fo travel like any other regular slash

I'm pretty confident his infinite slashes cut through space unless I'm missing something since demon-slasher allows him to cut what he wants.

I think this only applies to infinite slash in DU, so it would be a form of durability negation + spatial manipulation, just restricted to one specific move from demon-slasher, but not to anything else.

Trying to see what others think about this of my assessments are right because if they are he would have spatial manipulation + durability negation via infinite slash (only)
 
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Xinsignia1 said:
...
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I think the most you can achieve with this is a "possibly" since Asta's normal attacks are affected by warped space and Infinite Slash is not, which demonstrates a superior layer of anti-magic which would already explain everything you said without the need for spatial manipulation.
 
Lynieryz said:
I think the most you can achieve with this is a "possibly" since Asta's normal attacks are affected by warped space and Infinite Slash is not, which demonstrates a superior layer of anti-magic which would already explain everything you said without the need for spatial manipulation.
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I can see where your coming from however, Yami's normal attacks can be warped by space as well, even his dimension slash which can cut through space can be warped and though he has a spatial manipulation rating due to mana zone, his dimensional slash is also listed as a reason for the spatial manipulation rating. So why wouldn't Asta get the same rating considering its shown he cut through physically warped space twice via special move? Especially since it's superior to Yami's dimension and doesn't even seem to travel horizontal distance?

Also, thoughts about the durability negation?
 
Xinsignia1 said:
I can see where your coming from however, Yami's normal attacks can be warped by space as well, even his dimension slash which can cut through space can be warped and though he has a spatial manipulation rating due to mana zone, his dimensional slash is also listed as a reason for the spatial manipulation rating. So why wouldn't Asta get the same rating considering its shown he cut through physically warped space twice via special move? Especially since it's superior to Yami's dimension and doesn't even seem to travel horizontal distance?

Also, thoughts about the durability negation?
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I mean, that can just be Anti-Magic's Power Null
 
Xinsignia1 said:
I can see where your coming from however, Yami's normal attacks can be warped by space as well, even his dimension slash which can cut through space can be warped and though he has a spatial manipulation rating due to mana zone, his dimensional slash is also listed as a reason for the spatial manipulation rating. So why wouldn't Asta get the same rating considering its shown he cut through physically warped space twice via special move? Especially since it's superior to Yami's dimension and doesn't even seem to travel horizontal distance?

Also, thoughts about the durability negation?
Click to expand...
This only means that Luci's warped space has resistance to spatial manipulation, Infinite Slash being an additional layer of anti-magic does not contradict this and Dimensional Slash not being able to resist Luci's warped space favors what I'm saying since not even spatial manipulation was able to resist it which further supports Infinite Slash being an additional layer of anti-magic.

I honestly don't understand where the durability negation is coming from?
 
Lowkey we need to focus on all our hax layers starting with powernull.

Magic powernull layers and Anti Magic Layers.
 
SunDaGamer said:
I mean, that can just be Anti-Magic's Power Null
Click to expand...
That's possible, but to challenge that I would like to point out that Asta's passive anti-magic aura in DU, which even erased part of Nacht's playground the moment he transformed into DU, couldn't do a thing to its a physical effect, despite the fact he could neg the gravity passively in DU.

So he could move under the gravity, but could be affected/damaged by the warped space, just like everyone else since he and everyone else were consistently staying outside of Lucifero's area of effect
 
Xinsignia1 said:
That's possible, but to challenge that I would like to point out that Asta's passive anti-magic aura in DU, which even erased part of Nacht's playground the moment he transformed into DU, couldn't do a thing to its a physical effect, despite the fact he could neg the gravity passively in DU.

So he could move under the gravity, but could be affected/damaged by the warped space, just like everyone else since he and everyone else were consistently staying outside of Lucifero's area of effect
Click to expand...
Okay, but that doesn't influence the discussion because the argument is that Infinite Slash is an additional layer of anti-magic.
 
Lynieryz said:
This only means that Luci's warped space has resistance to spatial manipulation, Infinite Slash being an additional layer of anti-magic does not contradict this and Dimensional Slash not being able to resist Luci's warped space favors what I'm saying since not even spatial manipulation was able to resist it which further supports Infinite Slash being an additional layer of anti-magic.

I honestly don't understand where the durability negation is coming from?
Click to expand...
So Yami has two versions of dimension slash, once that visibly travels a distance, and one that simultaneously cuts through space. I'm arguing Asta does the latter.

Also anti-magic has resistance to spatial manipulation on his profile via resisting Zagred's trident warp. However, the reason I'm arguing for spatial manipulation isn't just based on the fact that it resisted Luci's spatial manipulation, but the fact that it was able to interact with the warped space, and also cut through since you visibly see it being pulled back from Nacht's hand (the dark wavy stuff) which relieved Nacht grim getting his hand crush, but did not nullify the warped space.

And the durability negation is coming from being able to cut said space, instead of targeting the thing that occupied it to bypass it.
 
Infinite Slash doesn't cut through space, what?

The Lucifero stuff is just an Anti-Magic moment, and the Five-Headed Dragon stuff... I don't even know where the conclusion of cutting through space came from. At best this just means the slash instantaneously appears where Asta wants it to, and that's being generous
 
Xinsignia1 said:
So Yami has two versions of dimension slash, once that visibly travels a distance, and one that simultaneously cuts through space. I'm arguing Asta does the latter.

Also anti-magic has resistance to spatial manipulation on his profile via resisting Zagred's trident warp. However, the reason I'm arguing for spatial manipulation isn't just based on the fact that it resisted Luci's spatial manipulation, but the fact that it was able to interact with the warped space, and also cut through since you visibly see it being pulled back from Nacht's hand (the dark wavy stuff) which relieved Nacht grim getting his hand crush, but did not nullify the warped space.

And the durability negation is coming from being able to cut said space, instead of targeting the thing that occupied it to bypass it.
Click to expand...
Honestly, nothing here goes against being an additional layer of anti-magic, the interaction would already be resolved by nullification,Nacht's thing due to the range of the attack and the only thing I can see being truly plausible for spatial manipulation It's us not having seen the attack cross the distance which could simply be a blitz due to the Infinite Slash possibly being faster than Luci.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Infinite Slash doesn't cut through space, what?

The Lucifero stuff is just an Anti-Magic moment, and the Five-Headed Dragon stuff... I don't even know where the conclusion of cutting through space came from. At best this just means the slash instantaneously appears where Asta wants it to, and that's being generous
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The dragon stuff ect ect, I thought illustrate the cut instantaneously appears where he wants

And I can understand the spatial cutting stuff being a bit harder to justify since a direct statement would be much better. But I will say the part about spatial cutting mainly comes from me reading into how anti-magic can cut through magic and resist environmental effects but not cut through them (like cutting through magical fire, but not the heat it generates) since the space he cut through was already warped. I can drop that part of the topic for now.

But I do think there's strong evidence for infinite slash manifesting where he wants to cut (I can drop the spatial cutting argument for now since a direct statement would be much better)
 
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Xinsignia1 said:
But I do think there's string evidence for infinite slash manifesting where he wants to cut (I can drop the spatial cutting argument for now since a direct statement would be much better)
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You could probably argue this, especially since Asta says Demon-Slasher cuts what he wants it to cut, though I'm not fully sure if it's this or if it's just a projectile that passes through what he doesn't want to cut (the latter being why he has Selective Intangibility atm)
 
Lynieryz said:
Honestly, nothing here goes against being an additional layer of anti-magic, the interaction would already be resolved by nullification,Nacht's thing due to the range of the attack
Click to expand...

I'll let the durability neg go for now since that would actually have some pretty serious implications, I have other arguments lined up but I think a direct statement from the manga, or author would be much better despite my own personal interpretation, all good. But just as a heads up, Anti-magic does not powernull preexisting effects unless he uses causality break with demon-destroy, (which severs the relationship between cause/magic aka Lucifer's gravity and effect aka the spatial warping) that's still consistent to this day, so him cutting through the already warped space wouldn't be powernull iirc.

Lynieryz said:
and the only thing I can see being truly plausible for spatial manipulation It's us not having seen the attack cross the distance which could simply be a blitz due to the Infinite Slash possibly being faster than Luci.
Click to expand...

Regarding this, I think there's a pretty strong argument for the slash manifesting where he wants to cut aka ignoring distance, considering all of his other slashes have clear implications of actually traveling, while these one definitely look more like instantaneous manifestations

Even rapidly fast attacks Tabata consistent gives indications of traveling considering his lower scaling from the Spade arc operates the same way. And there's also the fact Asta couldn't tag Lucius with demon-slasher in their first battle, and had to use demon-dweller to do so.

It would actually make sense considering the katana chooses what to cut without damaging those he wants to protect + its called infinite slash, meaning you'd have to avoid the attack before Asta strikes his hand down.
 
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