• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Black Clover General Discussion thread

so he conceptually cuts things? 🥘
Technically yes, but there has to be a greater elaboration in all the terminology of the verse, I'm gathering information about it to set up a blog explaining it, but I'm having problems because of the translations from my native language to English, and the lack of a computer too
 
Technically yes, but there has to be a greater elaboration in all the terminology of the verse, I'm gathering information about it to set up a blog explaining it, but I'm having problems because of the translations from my native language to English, and the lack of a computer too
Figured. whats your native language? Do you maybe have chapters for where some of your evidence is from?
 
Magic comes from human body that have come to existence thanks to god who controls the casuality of the universe

Youre simply extrapolating and creating concepts that doent exist within the series
I didn't mean to offend or anything like that, I'm just using it as an example dude, it's just that CM is a little tricky to explain but the concept of Magic in BC would easily fit somewhere between CM 1 or 2
, Since it's all in the verse and exists on an abstract level, which basically is the core of CM within the Wiki
 
From what I've seen mashle's terminology explanation makes the same mistake as on the BC page, it is simply assumed that the magic cast by a character comes out of complete nothingness, however in BC this is a more complicated case, since the lack of elaboration of how a spell is cast and the difference between a simple spell and a true spell causes extreme script failures most around Asta with what anti magic can and cannot affect

Question, what exactly is being misunderstood about how things are casted in BC?

From what I understand, mana is the fundamental energy that then turns into magical power (which is power that can influence substance) they then refine that magical power into magic/spells. So spells are infact comprised of refined magical power (in fact Tabata defined magic/spells as refined magical power) so I don't really see how that implies magic comes from nothingness (unless I'm misinterpreting something) or did you mean to say in Mashlee solely (and not black clover) it's assumed it comes from nothingness? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting.
 
Last edited:
Question, what exactly is being misunderstood about how things are casted in BC?

From what I understand, mana is the fundamental energy that then turns into magical power (which is power that can influence substance) they then refine that magical power into magic/spells. So spells are infact comprised of refined magical power (in fact Tabata defined magic/spells as refined magical power) so I don't really see how that implies magic comes from nothingness (unless I'm misinterpreting something) or did you mean to say in Mashlee solely (and not black clover) it's assumed it comes from nothingness? Sorry if I'm misinterpreting.
I say that Mana is misunderstood in the question of elaborating it with the skills of the Wiki, for example as you yourself said, mana is a fundamental ENERGY within the verse, but in the P&A section of the verse and not even that of any character has the ability of energy manipulation, what I say in things like information and conceptual follows the same principle, only I'm horrible at explaining things, however in the CM thing I find my explanation very simple for example, the main factors for a type 2 CM it exists on an abstract , metaphysical level ( which in chapter 183/4 we have something that can be used as proof that mana exists on that level , as Henry could sense the mana of black bulls in the world of glamor it is said to be made of ) dreams in chapter 222, and also the fact that mana is the "source" of all spells can also play into this as this includes concept spells from Morris and lilich and Naamaha ), being fundamental (it has the author's direct statement that mana is a fundamental part, in the SBS of volume 4) governing all reality in its area of influence, which for example would be like manipulating the concept of water consequently manipulates the area of influence or the object that it governs would be water (we have the mana zones that can serve very well for this example, mana zone allows the characters to manipulate the mana of the surrounding area, Lolopechika for example has control over all the water in the realm of heart which is where his mana zone extends this is said in the chapter 227 and has several proofs of this in the other chapters).
 
Nothing you say it's any where a good justification for CM. Actually, following such logic, 90% of power systems would be CM
Read CM's explanation pages of the other verses that are already accepted on the Wiki as the core element of The God High School, or the essence of life, from Vampire Hunter D , the two blogs are defined in just showing that the characters can manipulate an abstract and fundamental part of something or someone , and manipulating this abstract part is affecting reality either like a simple manipulation of water or more complex things, the Daos of most cultivation works also follow this logic, and the characters use these things to
 
I sent it unintentionally.....

Continuing..
For simple things like fire manipulation or water manipulation ji ning is a good example of this.

And I agree with the part that 90% of the verses would fit this , however that just means that the supporters of the other verses like Bleach for example only managed to be so haxead ,because they were able to read the "between the lines" of the Wiki P&A sessions
 
Read CM's explanation pages of the other verses that are already accepted on the Wiki as the core element of The God High School, or the essence of life, from Vampire Hunter D , the two blogs are defined in just showing that the characters can manipulate an abstract and fundamental part of something or someone , and manipulating this abstract part is affecting reality either like a simple manipulation of water or more complex things, the Daos of most cultivation works also follow this logic, and the characters use these things to
GoH's one works because everything has been stated to have a core element and characters have been shown manipulating the core elements to then cause changes on a greater scale in objects that embody those concepts, like Mujin manipulating Gaia's heart (Earth's core element) and screwing with gravity on Earth.

How does this apply to BC? I don't think we've seen anybody actively screw with the concept of magic and have it cause changes to all magic users. Asta negating magic is just that, powernull, rather than CM. The only time I can think of concepts being mentioned in BC is when Dante crushed Vanessa's fate cat.
 
GoH's one works because everything has been stated to have a core element and characters have been shown manipulating the core elements to then cause changes on a greater scale in objects that embody those concepts, like Mujin manipulating Gaia's heart (Earth's core element) and screwing with gravity on Earth.

How does this apply to BC? I don't think we've seen anybody actively screw with the concept of magic and have it cause changes to all magic users. Asta negating magic is just that, powernull, rather than CM. The only time I can think of concepts being mentioned in BC is when Dante crushed Vanessa's fate cat.
The concept I am trying to explain would be mana , to be more exact mana is what makes up a concept in BC , I assume that based on the statements we have about mana , of it being a fundamental aspect that each spell (attribute/element) has its own, each spell in BC also has its own "object"also that is present in the world, be it fire, water, wind, time, dreams, etc, and mana is present not only defining a person's magic attribute, but also the "object" that this magic attribute rules
 
The concept I am trying to explain would be mana , to be more exact mana is what makes up a concept in BC , I assume that based on the statements we have about mana , of it being a fundamental aspect that each spell (attribute/element) has its own, each spell in BC also has its own "object"also that is present in the world, be it fire, water, wind, time, dreams, etc, and mana is present not only defining a person's magic attribute, but also the "object" that this magic attribute rules
Mana is an energy system. Mana is found in most things in BC, hence why running low on mana makes you tired and also explains how Black Asta passively kills mana-infused plants. Mages use this energy, subconsciously manipulating their ki (life force) to then turn into Magic Power which is what fuels spells. You're right, it's a universally-used thing within the verse but it's an energy system, not concept manip. Would you call Naruto's jutsus concept manip because they turn chakra (life energy) into fire, water, lightning, etc. ?
 
Using TGOH as an example, mana plays the role of a core element, magic attribute would be Earth here
But that's simply not the case. Nobody is manipulating mana to then cause a change in magic attributes. People convert mana from a natural energy into magic power, which is the basis of spells. I think you're conflating Universal Energy Systems and CM. They aren't the same.
 
the essence of life, from Vampire Hunter D ,
Fount of Life seems more complicated than Mana in Bc, having shown several different higher levels of hax that make it rise to such a standard, Mana in bc if anything only comes close to being able to manipulate the laws of physics and that's only from Dante and Vanessa.
 
Mana is an energy system. Mana is found in most things in BC, hence why running low on mana makes you tired and also explains how Black Asta passively kills mana-infused plants. Mages use this energy, subconsciously manipulating their ki (life force) to then turn into Magic Power which is what fuels spells. You're right, it's a universally-used thing within the verse but it's an energy system, not concept manip. Would you call Naruto's jutsus concept manip because they turn chakra (life energy) into fire, water, lightning, etc. ?
No, mana is not vital energy, mana exists inherently in the world as a fundamental aspect, and nothing prevents an energy from also being something conceptual, Daos and the "energy" of vampire Hunter D ,are proof of this, and each spell has its certain mana this is explained there in chapter 18 , if I'm not mistaken
 
chapter 18
0018-012.png

This?
 
But that's simply not[/I the case. Nobody is manipulating mana to then cause a change in magic attributes. People convert mana from a natural energy into magic power, which is the basis of spells. I think you're conflating Universal Energy Systems and CM. They aren't the same.

I think you misunderstood me , I 'll try to use a better analogy , when I say that each attribute has its own mana it 's more or less like this , water magic carries the water mana itself , fire magic carries fire mana, a fire mana user cannot manipulate water mana and vice versa, Lolopechika a water mana user, has the ability to manipulate water as well, present within her mana zone that allows her to manipulate water throughout the realm of heart which is where her mana zone extends.Thanks to the ability to manipulate the mana of the water in the surrounding area
 
Last edited:
At that time there weren't so many variations of magic, but I think it was very clear that each magic has its own mana, and what I'm proposing is a simple logic,and perhaps the closest to a type 2 CM within the Wiki, where even the limitations fit, type 2 concepts are the abstract and fundamental part of something, mana is fundamental to the "object" it rules, and also exists on an abstract level as well, since even if a character is transformed into dreams that themselves are abstract in nature it is still possible to feel their mana, mana is also connected to people's perception of it so much so that it is necessary to understand it more to increase a spell's quality as shown in chapter 292
 
Back
Top