Black Clover downgrade

[USklaverei]

So, what? There's nothing wrong with this.

And that is why the calculation is useless, he only traveled 0.40m at the speed of light, you are assuming that he changed his trajectory, being that only he is going from one point to another.

1- It was way more than 3 meters
2- That statement is barely reliable

Almost that, it is a short distance and you are using the excuse to say that it is travel speed.
What other statements are also unreliable? Yami saying he can't hit Patri with him moving in SOL? He surprised by Streak moving at the speed of light? Let's do it like this, the statements are not reliable, so, discard the characters being the speed of light

We have no quotes of Yami not being able to react to SoL...

Yes, we do, Patry mentions this

 

[DivineAura44]

Personally it looks like the evidence for it are baseline and against is less than baseline. I think this is becoming too chaotic because the amount of points. Everyone needs to slow down and take their time so this doesn't go completely haywire.

 

[USklaverei]

The point is that this was totally distorted, the main issue was the calculation.

 

[Epsilon_R]

And that is why the calculation is useless, he only traveled 0.40m at the speed of light, you are assuming that he changed his trajectory, being that only he is going from one point to another.

He moves to 3 positions, his initial location, the upper one then the lower one, hardly visible

What other statements are also unreliable? Yami saying he can't hit Patri with him moving in SOL? He surprised by Streak moving at the speed of light? Let's do it like this, the statements are not reliable, so, discard the characters being the speed of light

Don't be that way... I said Patry's statement is unreliable as this exact same statement was said in another point of the series and it turned out to be wrong. Besides Patry is known to overestimate his magic and underestimate his opponents, hence why he's not a reliable source. I won't debate this anymore.

Yes, we do, Patry mentions this

That only applies to travel speed, not reactions...

 

[USklaverei]

He moves to 3 positions, his initial location, the upper one then the lower one, hardly visible

AND ? What does that change? You in the calculation only discovered the distance he traveled with the magic of light.

Don't be that way... I said Patry's statement is unreliable as this exact same statement was said in another point of the series and it turned out to be wrong. Besides Patry is known to overestimate his magic and underestimate his opponents, hence why he's not a reliable source. I won't debate this anymore.

So it is only reliable when it suits you, when it contradicts your points it should simply be discarded?
In this case, I think we should also discard the statements of Yami and Gauche, since they too cannot be trusted, let's go.

That only applies to travel speed, not reactions...

Okay, why moving 5 meters to the side would be travel speed?

 

[CloverDragon03]

So it is only reliable when it suits you, when it contradicts your points it should simply be discarded?
In this case, I think we should also discard the statements of Yami and Gauche, since they too cannot be trusted, let's go.

You came to that conclusion based on what, exactly? It's already been elaborated on why we can say Patry's statement is comparatively unreliable. Don't try to attribute it to "suiting us" when it's been explained.

 

[USklaverei]

Nothing was elaborated, you are only trying to juggle to discard this quote, exactly what you try to do with the Yami quote does not hit Patry, you are literally only using it when it suits you and ignores it when it contradicts your points

 

[CloverDragon03]

Let's see what we've got here.

Patry:

• Is known to underestimate his opponents and overestimate himself (looks down on humans in general, especially)
• Has his statement contradicted when it happens again later in the series and is proven wrong

Yami:

• Does not underestimate his opponents or overestimate himself
• Has not had his own statements contradicted

See why Yami's word can be taken over Patry's? Don't ignore that just to claim it's "what suits us." Anyways I'm gonna be gone for the rest of the night so I'll return to this later.

 

[USklaverei]

His statement is not valid 200 caps forward, not invalid at the time it was used for the first time, he knew Yami, fought him there and knew what he was capable of and he says that Yami cannot avoid it, as I said, you're just making an excuse for it.

Exactly, Yami's statement is valid and he mentions that he cannot reach Patri because he moves at the speed of light, simple.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Let's see what we've got here.

Patry:

• Is known to underestimate his opponents and overestimate himself (looks down on humans in general, especially)
• Has his statement contradicted when it happens again later in the series and is proven wrong

Yami:

• Does not underestimate his opponents or overestimate himself
• Has not had his own statements contradicted

See why Yami's word can be taken over Patry's? Don't ignore that just to claim it's "what suits us." Anyways I'm gonna be gone for the rest of the night so I'll return to this later.

Especially since Yami outright says Patry is more of a schemer, and couldn't have beaten Fugeoleon if he didn't trick him, and then here's Yami, keeping up, dodging, and absorbing his light with his darkness, yet had to plan to get one Fugeoleon out of there, and was portrayed as an equal to Nozel, the same Nozel who took on the stronger Third Eye while suppressed.

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Manga>Anime if there are direct contradictions. I've seen multiple feats of Yami reacting/dodging light speed. Unless there is concrete evidence that light magic isn't light speed, I don't see the issue here.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I'm siding with dragon and epsilon atm.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

As do I.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Putting a reminder on so i can respond to the thread later.

 

[USklaverei]

Manga>Anime if there are direct contradictions. I've seen multiple feats of Yami reacting/dodging light speed. Unless there is concrete evidence that light magic isn't light speed, I don't see the issue here.

yes, his constructs are not the speed of light, only the movement of light magic and the divine ray are SoL

 

[USklaverei]

But anyway, the discussion was totally distorted and her purpose is different, the thing that the OP addresses is the calculation that is incorrect, as I already mentioned, I will deal with these things of Patry and Yami later.

 

[Epsilon_R]

There's nothing wrong with the calc. I'm calculating the reaction speed required for patry to stop himself and manoeuver while he moves at lightspeed.

Like, it's not that hard to understand so I don't know what to say to you at this point

 

[USklaverei]

You literally just refuted yourself, if he stopped there is no reason to maneuver while at that speed, besides, in the calculation you just discovered the distance traveled by him using the magic of light

 

[Damage3245]

For the original calculation blog, the feats being calculated should be linked to.

 

[Epsilon_R]

You literally just refuted yourself, if he stopped there is no reason to maneuver while at that speed, besides, in the calculation you just discovered the distance traveled by him using the magic of light

That doesn't change the fact that he needs to have this reaction speed in prefer to stop himself in such a short distance....

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

There is so much wrong with this thread lmao

I have a response but it's very long and Im at work so I can only post it a bit later.

 

[SupremeNiva]

Can we even used the anime here? The anime has a lot of added new scene that the manga doesn't have, so you can maybe say the anime has its own continuity different from the manga and therefore can't be used to debunked the scene on the manga.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Wait, people are still against using anime to get a better context?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Manga should be the primary canon. If the anime and manga have the same scene depicted differently, the manga should take precedence as it's the source material.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I still expect to see some difference in the scenes

 

[DivineAura44]

Sure, but it shouldn't be a major contradiction. You know like one that can take someone for SoL to probably MHS.

 

[TheLastStylebender]

I agree with OP

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Wait, people are still against using anime to get a better context?

If your going to use an anime for support over canonical sources even though it contradicts it then goodluck arguing the very foundational elements of this arguement, which relies on the idea that they only reach Lightspeed with a certain augmented spell based on a throwaway line from the Mereoleona vs Raia fight where he moves ar lightspeed between portals, despite the fact that the anime shows him without the SFX that accompanies this "Special lightspeed movement"

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Dude, I am not talking about Mereoleona vs Raia

 

[DivineAura44]

To tally
Agrees with downgrade: M3X, Akuto, Usklaverei, Life Of King, LordGinSama, Joshpiece, KingTempest, and StyleBender.
Disagrees with downgrade :Epsilon, Alpha, Dragon, Dragoon, Bernkastelll, Demon, Milly_Rocking_Bandit, and Obi.
Neutral: Me (Leaning to disagree), StrawHatArslan (Seems like leaning to disagree), SupremeNiva (Seems like leaning to disagree idk), and Shadowbokunohero (Seems like leaning to disagree idk).

 

[SupremeNiva]

I still expect to see some difference in the scenes

(10:19)
In the anime Gauche, Charmy, and Grey show up and help Asta and the others fight against Vetto, but in the manga its only Asta, Noelle, Vanica, and Vinral are the only one fight Vetto


In the anime, all members of the BB shows up on the fight meanwhile in the manga, only Charmy shows up.

There's probably more added new scene, but I only read the manga so I don't know a lot of things about the anime and only watch a few clips of it.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

These scenes have a difference, but not the specific one. Dragon Ball Z for example, has millions of differences between anime and manga, but yet we use scenes that are the same to calculate

 

[Epsilon_R]

Listen, this panel has the "Flash" sfx in it. This means the Raia moved with Light Magic.

The anime version wasn't able to portray the fact that he used light magic, as such using the anime for this scene is unreliable.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Dude, I am not talking about Mereoleona vs Raia

It doesnt matter, you dont get to choose which Inconsistent anime adaption is the correct one, that's called Cherrypicking, You can use anime as supporting evidence if it's not Inconsistent with the source material.

even if we're charitable and say OP's argument about Raia using lightspeed to move back and then move side ways was valid it would still be Inconsistent with what is shown in the Anime.

THE ANIME SCENE IS NOT CONSISTENT THUS NOT VALID

 

[Epsilon_R]

To tally
Agrees with downgrade: M3X, Akuto, Usklaverei, Life Of King, LordGinSama, Joshpiece, KingTempest, and StyleBender.
Disagrees with downgrade :Epsilon, Alpha, Dragon, Dragoon, Bernkastelll, Demon, Milly_Rocking_Bandit, and Obi.
Neutral: Me (Leaning to disagree), StrawHatArslan (Seems like leaning to disagree), SupremeNiva (Seems like leaning to disagree idk), and Shadowbokunohero (Seems like leaning to disagree idk).

I don't think we do Ad populum in CRTs

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Listen, this panel has the "Flash" sfx in it. This means the Raia moved with Light Magic.

Again, the "Flash" is from Yami's katana. When an onomatopoeia is black it indicates that the sound is created by Yami, when it is white it is created by Licht (Light magic), the fight in full looks like this

 

[DivineAura44]

I don't think we do Ad populum in CRTs

I literally said to tally.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think we do Ad populum in CRTs

We don't but it's good to see the general consensus so far. This appears to be a controversial topic.

 

[DivineAura44]

We don't but it's good to see the general consensus so far. This appears to be a controversial topic.

Said it better than I ever could have.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Again, the "Flash" is from Yami's katana. When an onomatopoeia is black it indicates that the sound is created by Yami, when it is white it is created by Licht, the fight in full looks like this

No it's not, "Flash" sfx is only used when there's light or when Light Magic is in movement.

The sfx for the cloaked katana is "Skash" not Flash.

A katana doing a camera sound makes 0 sense to begin with