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Bill Cipher vs. Rosalina

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Cropfist said:
If jobbing is going to be accepted, Marvel herald-level characters would have to be downgraded considerably.

What instawin hax advatage does Rosalina have? Her only haxes are reality warping, space manipulation and possession, all of which Bill has (plus more) and is mostly useless at tier 2.
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That's PIS, not CIS.

And both Hax you mentioned are being used by someone who doesn't job all the time.
 
Bill used his hax to disfigure Mr. Northwest when "threatened", so he is willing to use it in character. Therefore, him not doing so at a more important time is PIS.
 
Cropfist said:
Bill used his hax to disfigure Mr. Northwest when "threatened", so he is willing to use it in character. Therefore, him not doing so at a more important time is PIS.
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Using a one time deal where Bill was messing around and ignoring everything else in the show isn't a great example.
 
Pretty much all of Wierdmegeddon he was trying to win. Only at the very end did he get PIS'd into oblivion. Until then he was freezing, petrifying, and warping everyone he came across.
 
Cropfist said:
Then what about this, this, this or this?
Click to expand...
He reflects an attack, which isn't Hax and isn't useful

He chains after joking around IQ for a good five minutes

Fair enough, but not really helpful

That's the text book definition of toying around tho.
 
Bill could also possess her and possibly win that way which adds to his hax. What would Rosalina do if she gets possessed?
 
So remind me again how Rosalina has the AP advantage over a guy who broke down the laws of physics and time just by entering the universe?
 
Lightbuster30 said:
So remind me again how Rosalina has the AP advantage over a guy who broke down the laws of physics and time just by entering the universe?
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You mean that feat that literally everyone else but you pointed out never happened.

By the way "Laws of the universe" isn't even AP, that's Hax.
 
You mean that feat that literally everyone else but you pointed out never happened.

By the way "Laws of the universe" isn't even AP, that's Hax.

Literally you and someone else are the only people who outright disagreed, and you didn't even bother saying why.
 
DMB 1 said:
Yes, "breaking the laws of the universe" is extremely vague, and it's probably some sort of passive Physics Manipulation or Chaos Manipulation, but again, it never affected two kids, so it ain't affecting another Low 2-C anytime soon.
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I'm using it because it's Bill's justification. Ok, so? He still holds the AP, because I'm pretty sure turning a baseline into molecules through brute force, is wayyy above creating an universal space-time continuum.
 
No his justification is one shotting time baby, while the other is meaningless fluff that should have been removed long ago.

And no, Me, Cal, Ed and now DMB are disagreeing with said feat.
 
Did he really did this on an Universal scale? If I recall correctly, a big plot point is the fact that he was restricted to Gravity Falls and couldn't influence the world outside

I remember when Bill had a fair fight with Lavos of all people
 
Thats voing to a problem when A: Bill has the likely AP advantage. B: He has at least low mid regen (can regen his eye). Low mid is surprisingly effective here, since they are likely similar in AP which means Rosalina's ap isn't enough to blast Bill past low mid.
 
Rosalina did not reset the universe. I thought this misconception was already debunked. It was the Lumas that sacrificed themselves and gave birth to the reset universe. It's not that hard to figure that out since the Lumas can turn into new stars and planets at least for Super Mario's Galaxy's continuity. There's nothing to indicate otherwise that Rosalina has that kind of power peroid, and if she does it's spotty at best. Now she did protect herself during the reset and spoke to Mario, but it's not clear if she was doing this herself or the Lumas did it to protect her. This is vague at best. To be honest I don't think Rosalina is as strong as people think she is. I think most people just base her feats off of Smash Bros. Which isn't a good indicator of character strength. If Rosalina is capable of doing most of these feats as her character file claims, we don't really know because she barely did anything in the Galaxy games besides from sit on her ass all day and let Mario did all the work. In fact, in Galaxy 2 she didn't literally show up till near the end of the game and said she was watching Mario the whole without doing a thing.


The problem that I have with most of Rosalina's powers is that we never see her use these abilities on a grand scale when compared to someone like Cipher. If Rosalina can really do all these crazy abilities, what extent can she she do them? Again, we don't know because she has never fought anyone in a battle that can push her or showcase most of her abilities on a mass scale to get a indication on how powerful she truly is. Yeah, she's definitely one of the more powerful Mario characters in the verse by far, but definitely not the strongest and I'm afraid that won't cut it to someone like Cipher.

We know what Cipher can do because we actually seen him showcase his abilities throughout his own show and in battle, and his feats are far greatly than anything Rosalina can do. You have to ask yourself this, how would Rosalina even kill him and I doubt she would even know how.

Cipher could simply just toy with Rosalina, stop time, and wreck her shit. Can Rosalina do this? Does she have a way to counter Cipher's time stopping abilities? We don't know. Cipher wins this unless Rosalina start proving me wrong and actually start doing shit.
 
To be honest characters have won because they have more hax then a said character.

And also wouldn't rosalina be in the same boat as bill both of them haven't fought people on there level. I mean bill did one shot time baby.

And also who's to say bill wouldn't try tricking rosalina.
 
Rosalina really needed the help of the lumas to even stop the black hole, so she really isn't even 2-C. She would just be multi-galaxy or universal level.
 
Since you're new, it's okay, but I have to inform you a couple of things

  • No one is going to downgrade any character because of some comment without evidence on a vsthread, if you want to downgrade her or any character you should instead collect evidence and establish your arguments within a Content Revision thread (CRT)
  • This thread is kinda old, so you shouldn't have left a comment here anyway
 
I have seen some of these debates and I have literally not seen that much change in the actual page. I don't even think anyone here is going to downgrade regardless.
 
Well, in vsthread we go within the information we already have, rarely implementing new stuff. But we always make changes of any kind, sometimes even downgrading characters who had high stats for years. For example, this guy used to be universal.
 
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