Bill Cipher takes on another iconic one eyed villain.

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Sleep Manipulation?

 

[DMB_1]

Sleep Manipulation?

Who did ithat work on?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

All the human cast.

 

[DMB_1]

Can Sauron even sleep?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dunno. Doubt it.

 

[QrowBarr]

Morgoth was put to sleep so I guess so.

 

[DMB_1]

There's a difference between putting regualr living beings to sleep and putting a nonbiological incorporeal higher dimensional abstarct to sleep.

 

[QrowBarr]

Morgoth isn't a regular living being, he's Valar.

 

[DMB_1]

I know, what I'm syaing is that standard sleep manipulation won't work.

Also, since we've established that Bill can't use much on Sauron, hat cn the latter use on Bill?

 

[QrowBarr]

Sauron has precog and concept manip (don't know if it's combat applicable or not)

 

[TheArsenal1212]

I'm a huge fan of LOTR and it's lore and I questioned its concept Manip combat applicability honestly. I know in this form he is more willing to create concepts than his other forms but that's just it, he's only used concept Manip for creation and for no real battling purpose. So I'd have to say no

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

His conceptual manipulation should be in the same vein as Morgoth's 2-C key, since it was happening at the same time and with the same reasoning. The whole multiple-song-Ainulindale was essentially a gigantic war of conceptual and reality warping, so I'd say it's combat applicable.

 

[DMB_1]

So basically, Sauron would chop the Dorito like Kit-Kat bar?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

...yes?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

So, my vote is for Sauron via precognition and combat-applicable conceptual manipulation

 

[The_Archdemon]

Bill Cipher has also got precog you know.

 

[The_Archdemon]

And can anybody tell me which concept did Sauron create?

 

[DMB_1]

Bill Cipher has also got precog you know.

IWould it work on another being that trascends time? Bill does trascend time too, but would his precognition work on a similar being?

 

[The_Archdemon]

Well, yes? I suppose... I mean, he can predict his own future (duuh) and that of his family (which should be similar to himself and which he seems to have killed)

I could ask the same about Sauron though.

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

We don't know which concept Sauron created. It may have been something related to Order or Control, however, based on Tolkien's discussions in Morgoth's Ring about his motivations as a villain

 

[DMB_1]

Then how can he effect Bill with concept creation? It seem it wouldn't be really useful.

 

[MasterOfArda]

He can also pervert concepts.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I'm a fan of both verses, but I know for a fact Morgoth has way better conceptual manipulation than Sauron

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

He definitely does. Sauron was of a similar type, however, since the purpose of all the Ainur was to forge reality. Morgoth just decided to...go the other way. Sauron would certainly be capable of it, and may have been one of the Ainur to join Morgoth in his own song of Discord.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Still, it's only really used for creation. Even if reality warping was involved it still hasn't been used in a combat sense, so it shouldn't really be combat applicable

 

[The_Archdemon]

And we don't know how far Sauron can go with his Concep Manip

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I know Sauron has creation, and Morgoth has alteration and creation.

 

[The_Archdemon]

Bill probably mindhaxes first anyway

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

This form does not do that. Unless your telling me that the cthulhu brand mindhax works on him.

 

[The_Archdemon]

Sorry?

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Bill can enter and can enter and alter minds


Only thing he can't do is read minds

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Bill can enter and can enter and alter minds


Only thing he can't do is read minds

He needs to willingly become 2D again for that. I highly foubt he would do that in a battle.

 

[The_Archdemon]

Actually, if that means he's going to win, I doubt he wouldn't try it. Precog you know

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He doesn't have combat amplicable precog. And I kinda doubt his ability to affect sauron that way.

 

[QrowBarr]

Sauron FRA.

 

[The_Archdemon]

> Doesn't have combat applicable precog > Predicts what the guy is about to do in the next two seconds

 

[QrowBarr]

>Could've used said precog to win him over situations.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

Isn't that PIS?

 

[QrowBarr]

There's loads of stuff where he could've used precog.

 

[TheArsenal1212]

He shouldn't of been hurt by a paint can either but he did. Wierdmaggedon is just... weird in it's clear PIS