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Bill Cipher revisions

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So nifty new has abilities that can possibly be used a a 4D scale? Rip weakest Dorito. You may not be High 1-C, but I'll take decent hax over a tier jump any day (as long as it isn't useless)
 
The real cal howard said:
Except when Bill switched places with Dipper in Sock Opera, and Dipper was trapped in the mindscape, he outright said that Dipper didn't exist.
Click to expand...
That seems more like Soul Manipulation for me: he basically pulled Dipper's "nonexisting" essence out of his body and possessed him. The Mindscape seems more like an astral plane than a nonexisting one to me.
 
Cracks fingers

@The real cal Btw, don't add any changes to the Bill Cipher yet. Also, I'll get rid of your big paragraphs I quoted for rememberance after I'm done posting my reponses, so give me a few mins to do that as well afterwards.

  • Technology Manipulation:
I agree but this could be something else.

EDIT: Okay I got it. This is actually "Telecommunication."

  • Pain Resistance:
Without a doubt.

  • Precognition:
"How on earth does he not already have this?"

Honestly @The real cal, I sometimes ask myself the same thing for other certain characters besides Bill Cipher. Anyways, I agree and this is also All-Time Sense as well.

That reminds me, Bill Cipher also has Retrocognition which allowed him to see events in the past for example, he shown Dipper something about him and Mabel that was shown to have occurred in the past in that puppet episode.

  • Text Manipulation:
"Claimed to have drawn himself in textbooks, and wrote bits and pieces of books written by Dipper and Mabel."

Wait a second, @the real cal literally anyone can write in books lol.

  • Math Manipulation:
"As afformentioned in the quote above, one of the infinite variations vomited prime numbers out of his mouth."

Number and Limited Concept Creation IIRC.

  • Blood Manipulation:
"Yeah...same"

Blood Creation* to be specific but other than that, its good.

  • Life Manipulation:
Life Inducement & Life Creation* but other than that, its good.

  • Pocket Reality Manipulation:
"Mabelland. Duh. How does he not have this either?"

Honestly 2x, Pocket Reality Creation and Manipulation & I agree with this.

  • Mind Manipulation:
Mind Destruction* & he still regardless done so while making a deal, what is logic? Lol. You know Bill Cipher can't invade a someone mind without the permission of the host or the permission from someone else to invade said host's mind (yes, its technically illogical and has a loophole but still) and since when does Bill ever send people to the Mindscape? Mabelland is pretty much this: Mabelland = Pocket Reality Creation + Nightmare Inducement + Xenopyschic Reality Warping

Xeno-: "other; different in origin."

It means instead of bending reality using his thoughts, it will bend reality using other people's thoughts such as Mabel's thoughts for example and yes, "xeno-" is a thing. Just informing you that we always will learn what new prefixes are and we see these eventually. So no need for anybody to start making a big deal about not knowing such a superpower exists, thx.

  • Mind Control:
Okay and don't forget that he also used this to control his minions during weirdmageddon and used Empowerment & Size Enhancement to make them bigger.

  • Empathic Manipulation:
"Knows that chairs have feelings and feel pain when you sit on one."

Believe it or not but this is Clairvoyance since it relates to & found under Empathic Manipulation and also is Empathic Sense, so Clairvoyance + Empathic Sense for this one.

  • Darkness Manipulation:
"Stalks Dipper as a shadow"

Should be Shadow Stealth, not Darkness Manipulation.

  • Duplication:
"Like I said earlier in another thread, Bill uses this when fighting the Shacktron. I'm pretty sure a thread was made on this one specifically before, and I forgot to add it."

And he also performed this in one of Ford's dreams.
 
  • Astral Projection:
"This is what Bill does after he gains his 3-D form to enter Stanley's body."

I agree.

  • Portal Creation:
"Does this to get behind Dipper during their conversation."

I agree.

  • Summoning:
"Summons many things from the Nightmare Realm or Zone or whatever during Weirdmageddon."

I agree.

  • Large Size:
"Considering his 3-D form is large enough to sit on a throne made of petrified humans..."

Bill Cipher's full size is at least Type 6 and potentially up to Type 8 at best.

  • Animal Manipulation:
"The things in Mabelland are secretly made out of bugs."

Ew, I remembered that part and man did that looked disgusting but I have seen worse than that. Also, that's Possible Insect Manipulation if its only bugs.

  • Data Manipulation:
"Plants progressive planning into media about false flag operations as an act of winding down."

Can you cite the source of when that occurred please?

  • Age Manipulation:
"States growing up is optional. This could mean...something else, but that's way too dark for a kids book with a Disney connection."

Oh....

Well, Possible Age Manipulation it is then and I agree.

  • Chaos Manipulation:
"Bill has manipulation of the non-Lovecraftian definition of chaos. To elaborate, there's two definitions, and the one Bill has is the contemporary definition (meaning disorder, disharmony, confusion). It's obvious that weirdness is just another word for contemporary chaos."

Without a doubt & Weirdness Manipulation should also be added.

  • Non-Corporeality:
Its technically not wrong though and Dreamscape/Mindscape Bill Cipher is Non-Coporeal. I think I had suggested earlier that Bill Cipher should get "Low-Godly with the Nightmare Realm" mentioned in his Regenerationn. Not exactly, quantum uncertainty means that he's both alive & dead simulanteously and considered to be a type of Immortality and him referencing that further proves my point.

The Quantum Destabilizer should be added to his weakness since that weapon is capable of harming him and so as forming the Zodiac Synthesized music, deals being called off (which easily enrages him) for obvious reasons.

"Whatever power making someone dance for eternity is He did this to Gideon. Idk what this is..."

I think it should fall in Command Inducement.

  • Sound Manipulation:
"Can change his voice to that scary version at any time"

Its Limited Voice Manipulation actually.

  • Time Travel:
"Even before offing Time Baby. Bill appeared in the dreams of Blendin, which is how he was able to possess him. Blendin is from the future, mind you."

I suppose I am alright with this.

  • Resistance to Mind Manipulation:
"One peek into the Nightmare Realm drove Fiddleford insane. Bill lived there for 1 trillion years. Bill called Fiddleford's mind weak."

High Resistance to Madness Inducement tbh.

  • Enhanced Sight:
This describes Nigh-Omniscience + All-Seeing (ultimate form of Enhanced Sight) actually.

  • Word Manipulation
"The mere utterance of his true name would evaporate one with an expression of horror and extasy on their face."

This is a form of Disintregration in which Bill Cipher specifically mentioned would be the result if a mortal mentions his real name, not Word Manipulation.
 
  • Statistics Amplification:
"The more he knows, the stronger he gets. Bill gets stronger every minute he's in the 3-D world."

A limited form of it but yea, I agree and its actually described like this: "JUST DRAW MY FORM ANYWHERE IN YOUR HUMAN WORLD- EACH IMAGE OF ME ACTS A PEEPHOLE FROM MY DIMENSION TO YOURS. THE MORE I SEE, THE MORE I KNOW. THE MORE I KNOW, THE GREATER MY POWER."

Limited Statistics Amplification via Intelligence Enhancement.

  • Low Godly Regenerationn:
"Okay, now we're real stuff. The eye thing is total PIS. Firstly, Bill casually removes his exoskeleton to feed. Second, go back to the non-corporeality thing I had above. Bill is just as much existent as he is nonexistent. Bill also says that he's a being made out of pure energy, in the show at that, so even the part that is existent, isn't truly corporeal. And then go to the fact that he can't contact anyone in the real world, and he compares being in the mindscape to being like a ghost. All of that, and then Bill creates a 3-D body in almost an instant. It's apparent that Bill can fashion his body instantaneously."

How about keeping that but instead also add "Low-Godly with the Nightmare Ream" along with his current regen as well. I think Bill Cipher is referring to only his Dreamscape/Mindscape form about it being made out of pure energy while Bill Cipher's true/physical form is only just intangible. Everything else you said is fine.

  • Nonexistent Physiology:
"The schroedinger stuff from above. Does that qualify as that? Idk."

No, its more like having a Mathematical Form.

  • Probability Manipulation:
"In Mabelland, even skipping rocks is done perfectly."

You're gonna have to provide a better explanation for this because for now, I don't agree with this.

  • Fate Manipulation:
"Someone asked Bill for a hug (hear me out). Bill responds saying to find him, and sends longitude and latitude that leads to the Bermuda Triangle. So Bill is the Bermuda Triangle (duh...), which makes him responsible for the disasters there. For supporting evidence, Bill says that if one of the askers draws Bill on his hand and shakes hands with himself, Bill can make it certain that the asker gets into an animation program."

Limited Fate Manipulation* but other than that, its good.

  • Conceptual Manipulation:
"Bill has literally tasted life. In Bill's words, "LIFE TASTES LIKE URACIL CYTOCINE AND THYMINE!! ITS DISGUSTING!!" He also refers to the seven deadly sins as his babies, implying that he created them."

Conceptual Perception and Possible Conceptual Creation.

  • Law Manipulation:
"Bill claims that he'll rewrite "the rules" once he reaches his goal. "I ASK YOU WHY SHOULD TIME ONLY MOVE FORWARD WHY MUST CAUSE PRECEDE EFFECT WHO VOTED ON THE LAWS OF PHYSICS RULES ARE PERVERSIONS AGAINST ALL WILL THATS WHY IM ABOUT TO REWRITE THE WHOLE SYSTEM BUDDY AND NO ONE IS GOING TO STOP ME"

  • Causality Manipulation
Same as above

  • Physics Manipulation
Once again, same as above"

Possible Causality and Physics Manipulation via Law Changing is gucci.

Am I even at the end? @The real cal

Nope, nvm.

  • Plot Manipulation:
Limited Plot Manipulation actually, Bill Cipher can't affect all plots in general.

Extra powers & abilities to add to the list:

  • Force-Field Creation
  • Petrification
  • Possible Death Inducement
  • Cloth Imprisonment
  • Rage Power
  • Berserk Mode
  • Speed:
Isn't that more justification for and specifically is Immeasurable Speed?

  • Nigh-Omniscient:
Oh that? I can easily prove it, I just need to find my scans for it if I still can, brb.

EDIT: Sadly, I can't be able to find them, darn. Well, for now the best you can argue & defend is what I mentioned earlier that is considered to be Nigh-Omniscience and the Intelligence Enhancement along with that as well.
 
Yes.

Because he can't. No way in hecc.
 
I can vomit blood under certain circumstances. I can also bleed on people. Pretty sure that doesn't qualify as blood manipulation
 
Didn't Bill claim to see everything? Hear me out: All he does is "see" everything, but seeing everything doesn't necessarily mean you know everything.
 
I mean

Most of the accepted powers aren't really impressive on a Tier 2 scale, unless you count people like DBS Characters

Don't know where all that fuss about Bill being stronk now is coming from
 
Ultima Reality said:
I mean

Most of the accepted powers aren't really impressive on a Tier 2 scale, unless you count people like DBS Characters

Don't know where all that fuss about Bill being stronk now is coming from
Click to expand...
Did you miss the part where he became Lavos, with infinite versions of himself that can perceive each other? ovo
 
I mean

Did he ever used them properly like Lavos does?

Like, to bring himself back from death
 
Did you miss the part where he became Lavos, with infinite versions of himself that can perceive each other? ovo

Or the part where he was gonna re-write the laws of casualty and physics on a multiversal scale?
 
@Ultima. You saw the ovo, right? OvO

In all seriousness, yes, Bill isn't a crazy tier 2 like some other characters from PMMM, Chrono, Digimon, Pokemon, SMT, or Warhammer. However, the amount of disrespect Bill got was crazy. The dude, in his 2-A form, was said to lose against Zen'ō, Medaka, pretty much anyone with any modicum of hax. Dude had a match against Kirby for crying out loud. Even Azzy was getting annoyed by it (and I partially made this to gain Azzy's favor ovo). He was said to be the epitome of a jobber, which couldn't be less true because the only time you could say he jobbed was when it wasn't beneficial for him to use physical force instead of lolblink (oh, Bill should probably have existence erasure, as Alex implied that time anomalies can blink the kids out of existence, and Bill can cause them), and to give Ford the opportunity to save his family. Bill has unknown speed when he has more concrete immeaurable statements than like, Undertale. He was a joke here, and I participated in it. He's also more memorable and better written than most of the tier 2s we care about. He deserves at least a bit of attention and praise after the way we did him dirty.

I sound like I'm talking about a real person...
 
I just imagined you scolding a confused mob for being mean to the dorito

ovo
 
I also should ask...

@Ever. Why isn't it plot manipulation? And since you said you don't think it's that, what do you think it is?
 
Ultima Reality said:
I mean

Most of the accepted powers aren't really impressive on a Tier 2 scale, unless you count people like DBS Characters

Don't know where all that fuss about Bill being stronk now is coming from
Click to expand...
Your standards are pretty high. Too much digimon, saint seiya and SMT is bad ovo
 
PaChi2 said:
Ultima Reality said:
I mean

Most of the accepted powers aren't really impressive on a Tier 2 scale, unless you count people like DBS Characters

Don't know where all that fuss about Bill being stronk now is coming from
Click to expand...
Your standards are pretty high. Too much digimon, saint seiya and SMT is bad ovo
Click to expand...
I mean, does that even deserve a ovo?
 
Frankly, it doesn't. While they're all good series, all we think about them is "What new bs power is gonna come out today?", which sucks, because Digimon and SMT (I don't know about Saint Seiya) are great stories and rarely focus on that OP sh*t. I don't even think Lucemon focuses on that. Bill, a funny but threatening villain has the perfect combination of powers to make him godlike but can reasonably think of a way around. And no, doubling up on hax for everyone else isn't good balance. It's called breaking power scaling. Too much power makes people without it seem useless in fiction.
 
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