Bill Cipher and GF Cosmology Discussion

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

I was going to do this revision tomorrow but couldn't wait. You can count as a continuation of this revision.
This is my blog on the cosmology of Gravity Falls, my views on the Nightmare Realm and Bill, what I'm going to write below is just a summary.
...
Summary
For Bill, it was described as uni + via rift in the previous CRT and I am absolutely not against it, because he needed a stable dimension as stated in diary and cartoon, this dimension was always gravity falls. Ford said in the diary that Bill would destroy this reality, it was never directly mentioned that the multiverse would disappear. Since the Nightmare Realm is between and beyond all dimensions, as that rift grows all parallel universes will disappear, there is absolutely no evidence that it will disappear directly.

This crt for Nightmare Realm to low 1-c and maybe bill too. Start on page 2 of the discussion, and check out the blog

However, the author himself stated that Bill in cartoon we see is not the true form and that True Form will transcend all the concepts and all dimensional boundaries we read in all diary and stories. Bill will be supreme being of creation.

If we count the words of the author, I think it is "Universe + via rift, Possibly low complex multiverse at least multiverse+ with True Form".

I put all the scans on my blog and wrote in much more detail, please check out there for more information.

 

[StrymULTRA]

So it's a thing like Arceus who uses avatars to interact with the Universes right?

I still think that at least a "likely High 1-C" (or 1-B if it trascends said cosmology) should go, GF verse actually recognizes what is the difference between spatial and parallel dimension.

Low 1-C is more than blatant anyway.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Following but not touching Low 1-C

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

So it's a thing like Arceus who uses avatars to interact with the Universes right?

I still think that at least a "likely High 1-C" (or 1-B if it trascends said cosmology) should go, GF verse actually recognizes what is the difference between spatial and parallel dimension.

Low 1-C is more than blatant anyway.

Ford didn't know about the dimensions and Bill, he just hoped his theory would get it right, he said the Fifth dimensional thing once and said that he stopped taking its lessons, maybe the fifth dimension, like in our world might just be theory because its precision was never implied.
Even if we take this fifth dimension, I still don't understand how Bill is 1-B.

(He would probably take a new form after getting out of Gravity Falls, this is true form)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I still think that at least a "likely High 1-C" (or 1-B if it trascends said cosmology) should go, GF verse actually recognizes what is the difference between spatial and parallel dimension.

But does the show have higher infinites tho?

 

[Bernkastelll]

But does the show have higher infinites tho?

Yes, they know how to work with dimensions, Bill has a 11-A key due being stated to be a 2-D being that comes from a Flat dimension

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Gravity Falls also clearly explains about a 2-dimensional universe in Journal 3 and explains that Bill came from a dimension like this as well. That is also confirmed by Bill

 

[Bernkastelll]

Yeah, thats a blatant proof that they can understand how ''higher/lower'' dimensions works

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

There is one thing I don't understand, how exactly does this make 1-B? Ford always uses the word "dimension" to mean the universe within the multiverse. He also writes the word "dimensional" to indicate that something is n-dimensional, as given above. There was only one fifth dimensional scan in the diary, and it is open-ended.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Pretty sure that trancesnding a 2-A structure and having Bill's True form being outside of it would warrent Low 1-C, but 2-A is also fine by me

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

At least 2-A True Form Bill
At least 2-A Nightmare Realm (there is an author comment and diary comment for this realm, even if it is not "possibly low 1-c" -I can push for it anyway-, at least 2-A is definitely suitable because it transcends the multiverse, and all universes boundar to this realm.) suitable for me
...
Universe+ via rift, At least 2-A with True Form

 

[Delta333]

I dont see any low 1-C but 2-A is also legit for me

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

If the Bill we see in the series is just an Avatar of Bill's True form according to the author himself, then Bill might also should get Immortality Type 9, as destroying him would means just destroying the Avatar, and it's heavily implied in many sources that Bill survived the erasure and is still alive

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Bill survived the erasure and is still alive

yes i remember hearing that,

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Okay, I came after investigating this think, Bill asked Axolotl for help in the finale, and there's a Gravity Falls book but it is not Canon, howerver Alex says one part is canon (and canon part is Axolotl). Axolotl says this. Bill said his name there, which means Bill is at another time now ....
But can't we discuss this Type 9 later? we need to get 2-A accepted as a priority.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ford didn't know about the dimensions and Bill, he just hoped his theory would get it right, he said the Fifth dimensional thing once and said that he stopped taking its lessons, maybe the fifth dimension, like in our world might just be theory because its precision was never implied.

He talked abouy fifth-dimensional calculus, and related it to quantum physics, so I don't see how the cosmology isn't at very least 5D due of it. You can't get such formulas without the dimensionality being such. It's like saying that a 2D world can learn from itself how a 3D or above calculus works.

I still don't understand how Bill is 1-B.

12D because of the cosmology being 11D at the peak with Bill trascending it.

And I've NEVER said that it should be flat-out 11D. I said a "likely/possibly" since the verse acknowledges what's the difference between spatial and parallel dimensions, so there's a possibility of said 11 dimensions being actually higher dimensional rather than just parallel ones.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

And I've NEVER said that it should be flat-out 11D. I said a "likely/possibly" since the verse acknowledges what's the difference between spatial and parallel dimensions, so there's a possibility of said 11 dimensions being actually higher dimensional rather than just parallel ones.

wait wait, you mean this panel?

 

[StrymULTRA]

wait wait, you mean this panel?

Yap. Since is vague, I think is enough to give the benefit of the doubt, so you can actually take High 1-C like not, you can't tell. Ergo a 50/50 can be good enough as a compromise.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Yap. Since is vague, I think is enough to give the benefit of the doubt, so you can actually take High 1-C like not, you can't tell. Ergo a 50/50 can be good enough as a compromise.

Actually, here ford uses dimensions in the sense of the universes, I explained this on the blog and the reason he knows entities is because he has already traveled the universes / dimensions within the multiverse.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Actually, here ford uses dimensions in the sense of the universes, I explained this on the blog and the reason he knows entities is because he has already traveled the universes / dimensions within the multiverse.

Ok, nvm. I've read the "dimension-hopping life", meaning that it was reffering to just parallel dimensions. MB I guess.

Still, Low 1-C should go because of the cosmology being 5D being blatantly a thing.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Still, Low 1-C should go because of the cosmology being 5D being blatantly a thing.

Remind me again of the 5D evidence?

Also yeah, 7-11D is a no since it's pretty clear the dimensions they refer to aren't higher dimensions in the way the wiki treats them, but rather other universes

 

[StrymULTRA]

Remind me again of the 5D evidence?

Low 1-C is more than blatant anyway.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Wrong. Except that when you search about Fifth-Dimensional Calculus it comes just about 5D stuff. Also because you can't get such formula without 5D, unless you think that 2D beings can get with just 2D how 3D formulas work.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Not to mention that he needed such formula to create the machine which was used to travel throught the cosmology, implying that said cosmology is 5D in itself at very least.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Stuff

OP, shouldn't you call some staff members who are knowledgable on the matter BTW?

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

OP, shouldn't you call some staff members who are knowledgable on the matter BTW?

as far as I know, Ant will look in the evening. but I can also ask Elizha and The impress (okay ı invited)

 

[StrymULTRA]

No. His research with the Fifth-Dimensional Calculus theory by no means indicates that his cosmology is 5d. He says he only worked on this theory and then quit.

He had to call a classmate who actually studied said theory to create the machine. Plus I'd like to see how can a 5th-Dimensional Calculus not being related to 5D space when just googoling it leads to 5D space lmao.

also when bill created the crack in the nightmare realm he just got a 3d form and he called his friends there to come to a 3d space and this could be seen and perceived by 3d characters, doesn't it show that nightmare realm is not 5d?

Being seen and perceived from 3Ds means literally nothing as Bill heavily implied to not being bound from the 3rd dimension anymore in the goddamn show, also because with this logic dudes as King Ghidorah won't be 4D because of such reason.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Frankly, I think he is referring to his transition from a 2-dimensional entity to a 3-dimensional entity that he recently made.

In a 4d universe, it is normal for an entity with full control of space and time to see 3d entities low.

Ok no this is just ******* up the context. Bill called 3Ds as limited comparated to itself, and attributed its new powers to the new state of existence it reached. None of these statements would make sense if it was just 3Ds like the humans.

Not to say that Standford even stated that Bill came fron an higher place to further confirm such, meaning that he understands (again) what the **** are spatial dimensions.

All of this + the whole context behind Bill's tranformation and reffering to itself as a multti-dimensional being which calls 3Ds as limited just confirms the Higher-D stuff.

Plus, again, I'd like to get how can you get a 5D calc without 5D space, really. It's even an actual subject studided from a Stanford's classmate which was used to create the machine, it's not a mere theory.

 

[StrymULTRA]

He had to call a classmate who actually studied said theory to create the machine. Plus I'd like to see how can a 5th-Dimensional Calculus not being related to 5D space when just googoling it leads to 5D space lmao.

For real, I'd like to see how that doesen't lead to 5D space.

 

[Antvasima]

@The_real_cal_howard @Elizhaa @Eficiente @CinnabarManx421 @SinsofMan @WeeklyBattles @Ryukama @Amelia_Lonelyheart @ArbitraryNumbers @Legion350 @The_Impress @Gilad_Hyperstar

What do you think about this?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

@The_real_cal_howard @Elizhaa @Eficiente @CinnabarManx421 @SinsofMan @WeeklyBattles @Ryukama @Amelia_Lonelyheart @ArbitraryNumbers @Legion350 @The_Impress @Gilad_Hyperstar

What do you think about this?

Based on the tweets we see from Alex Hirsch, Bill should also get a "True form" key based him transcending the entire 2-A multiverse of Gravity Falls

This would also mean that the Bill we see in the show is just an Avatar of his true self

 

[StrymULTRA]

It is normal for bill to see 3d assets as limited compared to him, because they are just normal people. He switched from a 2d entity to a 3d form and gained control over all space time. You can control all space and time in 3d, right?

Issue is, from how he stated it, he seems to have surpassed it, since he called them as "mere 3rd Dimensional life forms with just 5 senses", that can't make sense if he was just 3D.

I did not know this diary page, but thanks for sharing it. I would say at least 4d but 5d seems inconsistent to me. Not sure for 5D.

That's not how inconsistency works. You need anti feats to say such, and nothing here contradicts Bill being 5D, and the WoG even confirms such if he's beyond all the existence.

After all, we cannot prove string theory or Hilbert space theories concretely in real life, right? However, these theories, which cannot be proven, are used in mathematics. Of course I don't compare fiction and real life But I think if Ford has proven 5d for sure, he would have been talking about bill or nightmare realm in a full 5-dimensional statement rather than a lesson he had left in half in his diary.

It's NOT a theory, is an actual formula which was used to build the machine, again.

 

[Greenshifter]

@StrymULTRA I mean us 3D beings can make the entire tiering system using maths, so I'm not sure if 5D maths is all that impressive if it's just maths with 5 variables. Could be wrong though. Also you need to prove the higher dimensions have an uncountable infinite superiority to lower dimensions.

 

[StrymULTRA]

@StrymULTRA I mean us 3D beings can make the entire tiering system using maths, so I'm not sure if 5D maths is all that impressive if it's just maths with 5 variables. Could be wrong though. Also you need to prove the higher dimensions have an uncountable infinite superiority to lower dimensions.

It's alraedy proven since 2D in-verse is inferior to 3D like it is in this wiki

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

@StrymULTRA I mean us 3D beings can make the entire tiering system using maths, so I'm not sure if 5D maths is all that impressive if it's just maths with 5 variables. Could be wrong though. Also you need to prove the higher dimensions have an uncountable infinite superiority to lower dimensions.

That math is used for the portal, so it's not just math that works in theory like what mathmaticians do with higher dimensions in real life, but that was actually used to complete the portal that connected the universe to the Nightmare Realm and was used to describe the nature of space there.

The fact he needed 5 dimensional calculus for that greatly implies he was dealing with a 5D space

 

[Greenshifter]

@Strym That's the default in every verse I think. Don't think you can use that to prove 5D is superior to 4D though.

 

[Delta333]

It's alraedy proven since 2D in-verse is inferior to 3D like it is in this wiki

but 2-D is always inferior to 3-D

 

[StrymULTRA]

but 2-D is always inferior to 3-D

I just mean that the verse treats the difference between parallel and higher dimensions like this wiki does.

 

[Delta333]

I just mean that the verse treats the difference between parallel and higher dimensions like this wiki does.

you need to prove the difference between 2-D and 3-D extends across all higher dimensions,because 2-D beings are always inferior to 3-D beings in any verse,you can't say one character can read comic book so 5-D being in that verse can perceive 4-D being as fiction

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

you can't say one character can read comic book so 5-D being in that verse can perceive 4-D being as fiction

How does the first half of what you said implies the second half at all?