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Big Hal Jordan Revision

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@The real cal howard

No one is writing off feats willy nilly to keep the status quo. It's standard procedure to cross-examine feats. You have to admit that some of the allegedly 2-C feats are dubious.
 
Oh that wasn't referring to you, dude. Just some other past events. No qualms whatsoever with you or this thread lol.

Herald tiers are the Superman level characters. Diana, Hal, Victor, Barry, etc.

Also Barry was also unchanged by the crisis for obvious reasons.
 
That's one of the things Antvasima and I talked about Green Lanterns in another thread. While there are characters that have survived through the Crisis, that doesn't mean that their level of power is written the same afterward. Take Power Girl (Post-Crisis), for instance. Even after Infinite Crisis, she hasn't had a consistent level of universal power. The same goes for all the standard Lantern Coprs in Post-Crisis. We also have a previous thread proposing 4-A Lanterns. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3962115
 
Rebirth is another matter, and I haven't caught up on the recent arcs to update their feats list.
 
I...don't think that matters. They don't acknowledge that they've gotten any weaker. The Crisis isn't said to have rewritten their power, nor the source. Post Crisis has a handful of universal stuff later. They don't have to be putting down universes every issue or anything. If they have half a dozen universal feats, if not far more, they should be that tier. That's more than enough for any other series.
 
I'm glad Cal brought that up, because I completely forgot. Hal wasn't rebooted by COIE, which means he should logically be able to access his old Pre-Crisis levels of power at will.
 
Antvasima, several others, and I talked about the changes in power after the Crisis and the soft reboots.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3055439

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...s_Feats_Timeline_Project#WikiaArticleComments

If Hal always kept the 2-C level of power from Pre-Crisis by not getting a hard reboot, then the high tiers of the Justice League would have been 2-C a long time ago. Sodam Yat wouldn't have needed to use Ion to fight Prime if he was already 2-C for just being a Green Lantern.
 
LordTracer said:
I'm glad Cal brought that up, because I completely forgot. Hal wasn't rebooted by COIE, which means he should logically be able to access his old Pre-Crisis levels of power at will.
Click to expand...
We're currently debating that over at the DB thread. It looks like that's not the case.
 
Firestorm808 said:
If Hal always kept the 2-C level of power from Pre-Crisis by not getting a hard reboot, then the high tiers of the Justice League would have been 2-C a long time ago. Sodam Yat wouldn't have needed to use Ion to fight Prime if he was already 2-C for just being a Green Lantern.
Click to expand...
Firestorm808 is correct. It would create a scaling inconsistency nightmare to start upgrading the Post-Crisis DC superheroes far beyond their current tiers.
 
Hence the Variable tier, Hal isn't always operating at 2-C levels.
 
No, it would just create scaling. Who cares if they go far beyond their current tiers of their current tiers of their current tiers are wrong? If herald tiers are tier 2 then they're tier 2.
 
We would need considerable input from several of our DC Comics experts to revise the scaling in this manner, and the characters are almost never portrayed as anywhere near such a massive scale.

After the original Crisis all of the DC characters were severely downgraded, as they largely kept their relation to each other power-wise, even if not all of them were rebooted.
 
Again, that's the purpose of the Varies tier. Most of the time, Hal is 4-B like the other Post-Crisis guys, but he can get up to his old 2-C Pre-Crisis Levels when needed.
 
Well, if he has several valid Post-Crisis feats of this scale, that is obviously a different issue.
 
Antvasima said:
We would need considerable input from several of our DC Comics experts to revise the scaling in this manner, and the characters are almost never portrayed as anywhere near such a massive scale.

After the original Crisis all of the DC characters were severely downgraded, as they largely kept their relation to each other power-wise, even if not all of them were rebooted.
Click to expand...
This isn't brought up tho. That they were nerfed. Especially with the characters who weren't rebooted like Hal and Barry. Furthermore, the problem of them rarely (because they do still have tier 2 showings here and there even post) shouldn't even be a problem. If Dragon Ball Super got another 200 episodes and they never got another feat approaching universal, I can promise you nobody would even think about downgrading them. Same with any other verse, so I don't sound like DB anti-bias.
 
The problem is that they are generally handled at a far lower scale than even tier 4, and the vast majority of the feats higher than that have been debunked by others when brought up.

What are Hal's feats that are greater than tier 4-B in the Post-Crisis continuity?
 
Not Hal but Clark doesn't lack them.

Also somehow I don't believe those debunks. I believe the talks happened but I don't believe the legitimacy of the debunk.

About the scale. Goku Black doesn't show a single feat above city block level. Archie Sonic is normally shown at building. Herald tier characters have more uni feats than these two combined, but we use that argument for the comic characters only. And yes I'm well aware of the Powerscaling rules for marvel and dc.
 
That is because of the whole scaling chain inconsistency problems. The arguments for this are unfortunately very legitimate.

Anyway, feel free to ask the following members to comment here:

Sera EX, Matthew Schroeder, Zensum, C2 of Omego, Eficiente, Qawsedf234, PrinceOfTheMorning, Sandman31, SuperAPM, Zark2099, ClassicNESfa, Firestorm808, Elizio33, FanofRPGs, Ultima Reality, Kepekley23

We also need a list of all the most relevant high-level feats that are not easily debunked, preferably with scans included.
 
It was the usual spam troll. I and Cal took care of it.
 
Another example of 2-C Hal, he and Ion Kyle Rayner were having comparable effects on Alex Nero and they both seemed to be portrayed as comparable.
 
Hal is stated to be the greatest of the Green Lanterns many more times than that. Kyle is more often stated to be the greatest at using the other colors of the Spectrum, iirc. Also Kyle needed Hal's help to break free of Parallax's control while Hal has done that on his own, further showing his superiority over Kyle.
 
Hal is said here to be the best of those who've wielded the ring. Rebirth really shows that Hal is the greatest, I'm trying to get a bunch of stuff from there.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Saying that Hal is the greatest of them back in the 90s isn't really that impressive. As of the more recent Post-Crisis Comics, Hal isn't the most powerful Green Lantern.
Click to expand...
Jimm Olsen is shown in that scan to be heavily exaggerating, I don't think you should take his word as absolute fact. Hell, he said Superboy-Prime was just a minor annoyance for Superman and Kid Flash "kicked his face in the dirt," which we know is untrue.
 
Sodam Yat with Ion was fighting Prime in a bloody mess for both of them, way more than anyone else who has fought prime.

  • Green Lantern Corps Vol 2 #17 December 2007, Green Lantern Corps Vol 2 #18 January 2008
    • Sodam Yat with Ion bloodily fights Superboy-Prime.
 
Yes, I know that Ion is comparable to Prime.

A single Guardian was also able to KO Prime, Prime's body being stated to have been "removed from this universe atom by atom," and Hal (at his peak) is at the absolute least comparable to the Guardians.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
TDLR?
Click to expand...
Basically, Hal has a couple of 3-A to 2-C feats, some of which weren't actually. As well as this, Hal survived the retcon, so he could be as strong is Post-Crisis as in Pre. Besided that, just the normal discussion of consistency (or lack there of) for scaling in Marvel and DC.
 
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