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Big Hal Jordan Revision

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Zamasu Chan said:
TDLR?
Click to expand...
My proposal is that Post-Crisis Hal Jordan's tier be changed to; 'Varies. 4-B, up to 2-C' since he usually operates at a 4-B level, but can reach 2-C levels of power via just using more willpower and also because he was not rebooted by the Crisis on Infinite Earths.
 
I am not opposed to somebody giving Hal a variable tier, but we still need more input from the knowledgeable members that I mentioned earlier first.
 
"There would be no point of having the Central Blue Power Battery or Adara."

> This statement seems to operate on the assumption that Hal is already/actively choosing to be their battery. He made it very clear that he does not want to do that, so there is a point to having Adara and the Central Blue Power Battery.
 
@Firstorm808

Agreed. The Green Lanterns and Blue Lanterns automatically power up each other to greater levels simultaneously, without regard for conservation of energy. It is blatant symbolism for how the author thinks that emotions work in real life.
 
Hal explicitly says in the scan that they're trying to use him as a battery... it's not symbolism.
 
Antvasima said:
@Firstorm808

Agreed. The Green Lanterns and Blue Lanterns automatically power up each other to greater levels simultaneously, without regard for conservation of energy. It is blatant symbolism for how the author thinks that emotions work in real life.
Click to expand...
Dude, that's headcanon. Not to mention, conservation of energy? For the dudes who make constructs out of the aether?
 
Yes, supporting the statements from Hal and Sayd, the Guardian of the Blue Lanterns herself, that Hal would act as a battery for the Blue Lantern Corps and he wouldn't simply activate their ring's capabilities.

If they just meant unlocking the ring's abilities, they wouldn't have explicitly described Hal as a battery.
 
If a Green Lantern stands next to a Blue Lantern, is there power transfer from one to the other, yes or no?
 
According to Atrocitus and Saint Walker, the Blue Lantern ring will not function without a Green Lantern ring near them.

Why is this relevant to Hal and Sayd explicitly stating that Hal could be a battery and power (not activate) the entire Blue Lantern Corps.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Hal doesn't literally send Green energy into Blue Lanterns, it's just his presence that is needed.
Click to expand...
Yes. That is correct. Hal is in no way drained from empowering the Blue Lanterns. This is all due to the symbiotic relationship between the emotions of will and hope, not raw power.
 
No offense, but I feel like you guys are just ignoring what is explicitly said in the scan. And no, Hal wouldn't be drained from empowering a single Blue Lantern. Powering the entire Corps and being used as a battery, which he explicitly said, that might do it.
 
The entire point of the relationships between the blue and green lanterns is that they make each other stronger at the same time, not that they drain the power of each other.
 
Okay, but that's straight up not what Hal and Sayd are saying. Sayd says Hal can power the entire Corps, and Hal contextualizes that by saying 'I'm not a battery,' which is pretty clearly a reference to the Central Power Battery.

It is very clearly not saying he can just activate their rings.
 
That is still the greater context of the stories in which they interacted. Blue lanterns are more powerful than green ones, but need the green willpower users to properly use their rings.
 
Yet that's still not what Hal and Sayd are saying he would do.

Plus we have never seen any other situation of one Green Lantern powering through entire Blue Lantern Corps, including the Guardian, so you can't say for sure that it works exactly the same as a Green Lantern activating a Blue Ring, especially when that's just not what the scan says.
 
Is there any evidence that what Sayd said actually happens at any time during the Post-Crisis Era? That a member of another Standard Corp literally powers the rings of another? If not, then it's just unsupported words or hyperbole.
 
Ah, yes, because Sayd, one of the two people that created the Blue Lantern Corps and their rings in the first place, wouldn't know how her own rings work and just spout hyperbole.

Cause that makes perfect sense.

I don't understand why this is so difficult. Sayd is Guardian of the Blue Lanterns. She and Ganthet created the Corps and the Blue Lantern Rings. She would have the most knowledge about how these rings work, and she says Hal can power the entire Corps like a battery. Saying she's incorrect is, quite frankly, just taking headcanon over what the actual comic says.
 
My point is that there is no precedence for what she describes to have ever happened in the comics before or after her statement.
 
That's probably because they never tried it, since Hal didn't want to do it and they had the Central Power Battery/Adara.

That doesn't change that Sayd, the most knowledgeable on the Blue Lanterns, says Hal could power the Corps (including her) like a battery. It's just that simple.
 
His willpower is strong enough to energise their power of hope, due to how strong it is. It doesn't mean that he can generate comparable raw power to the entire Blue Lantern Corps on his own any time he wishes. That is likely a severe misunderstanding of context.

Anyway, I am not opposed to giving Hal a variable tier, but we need to base it on his own explicit feats, not ones that are subject to personal interpretation like this one.

What else has he done post-Crisis that is particularly impressive?
 
Except Sayd is explicitly stating that he ca generate that level of power. If she didn't mean that Hal could power the Corps like a battery then she and Hal wouldn't have used that exact wording. It's not a matter of personal interpretation, it's exactly what the scan says.

And for more 2-C stuff:

LordTracer said:
Another example of 2-C Hal, he and Ion Kyle Rayner were having comparable effects on Alex Nero and they both seemed to be portrayed as comparable.
Click to expand...
LordTracer said:
Plus, in Ion #4, Hal was stated by The Guardians to be the greatest of those who serve them, which would include Ion Kyle.
Click to expand...
He's also fought against one of the Guardians while they were possessed by Io.

He's created an entire Corps like Larfleeze.

By using everything he had, he killed Krona.

Hal fought on par with ZH Parallax, and they were stated to be equals in willpower. (This is an outlier since ZH Parallax is 2-A, but it continues to show that Hal at his peak can match and even overpower the Emotional Entities)
 
Well, being the greatest Green Lantern does not automatically refer to power, but in competence, but some of the other examples are probably fine. You should ask ClassicNESfan and PrinceOfTheMorning to comment here though.
 
I think that we are leaning towards giving Hal a variable tier, but I only think that some of the stated feats are reliable to scale from.
 
If there were to be an implementation of a Variable Tier, it would be more accurate to have it as Post-Infinite Crisis rather than the rating encompassing all of Post-Crisis.
 
Why is that? If it would still allow this to be implemented, I'm fine with it, I'm just curious why it'd specifically be Post-Infinite Crisis.
 
Okay. An extra statistics key then?
 
Green Lantern: Rebirth Vol 1 #6 May 2005

  • I don't think the Parallax Guardian is 2-C in this case.
  • Almost all 5 of the Green Lanterns harmed the Parallax Guardian in that fight, not just Hal.
  • John Stewart restrained the arms
  • Guy Gardner cut into his chest
  • Kyle pierced his mouth
  • Hal pierced its tongue and mouth
 
Firestorm808 said:
Green Lantern: Rebirth Vol 1 #6 May 2005
Click to expand...
Parallax broke free from their constructs almost immediately after, and Parallax then proceeded to overpower Kilowog, John, Kyle and Guy, which left Hal on his own. Hal then held Parallax back on his own until the other four got up.
 
Firestorm808 said:
There are practically no possible Universe level Base Lanterns feats prior to 2005.
Click to expand...
Okay, that makes sense then. So would Hal's keys would be Pre-Crisis | Post-Crisis | Post-Infinite Crisis or something else?
 
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