Ben Tennyson vs Ikki Kurogane: Part 2 Electric Boogaloo

[Greenshifter]

Anyways I assume that Ikki is one of those characters that transcends the usual system of causality and thus he would be able to fate hax Alien X regardless of whether acausality type 2 is legit or not? I know this almost never comes up but does Ikki need 2-B range on his fatehax to do so since the pocket dimension exists outside the multiverse?

 

[Greenshifter]

Maybe power null?

Wouldn’t work on the Omnitrix when transformed into AX and too OP if you argue he used it against Alien X himself. Also Paradox’s powers are time-based so wouldn’t make a lot of sense.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyways I assume that Ikki is one of those characters that transcends the usual system of causality and thus he would be able to fate hax Alien X regardless of whether acausality type 2 is legit or not?

I would argue that yes, idk if ppl would agree with me based on this standard though.

I know this almost never comes up but does Ikki need 2-B range on his fatehax to do so since the pocket dimension exists outside the multiverse?

The pocket dimension would be outside the multiverse, not Alien X himself.

 

[Greenshifter]

True but fatehax also involves making the opponent do stupid things. Which won’t happen since Ben is inside the pocket dimension.

Archie sonic peeps say that Sonic’s fatehax can bypass type 4 so it can bypass type 2 so I’m fine with it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

True but fatehax also involves making the opponent do stupid things.

No?

Which won’t happen since Ben is inside the pocket dimension.

So? Alien X is in range. Also desperado passives aren't range related you can literally recall a desperado and get affected.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

The pocket dimension would be outside the multiverse, not Alien X himself.

It was clearly shown that the pocket universe was inside of Alien x where did you bring that headcanon?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

It was clearly shown that the pocket universe was inside of Alien x

That's like saying you can't affect kirby cus he has a dimension inside him though.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

That's like saying you can't affect kirby cus he has a dimension inside him though.

Yes, you need to have enough range to affect Alien x pocket universe with x ability to fully affect him

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yes, you need to have enough range to affect Alien x pocket universe with x ability

What do you mean "yes"? When have you ever seen that argument be used in Kirby matches.

Alien X is not inside the Pocket universe, he IS the pocket universe. Big difference.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

What do you mean "yes"? When have you ever seen that argument be used in Kirby matches.

And ? kirby isn't Alien x

Alien X is not inside the Pocket universe, he IS the pocket universe. Big difference.

That.... Doesn't change anything I said

 

[Greenshifter]

And I also have another argument to make... You are wrong that Ghostfreak’s/Zs’skayr’s body is his soul (unless you mean something else with true body) since it can be damaged by Vilgax’s lasers and he’s been “reduced to atoms” before, implying he had atoms to begin with.

So as weird as it sounds I claim that Charmcaster’s statement “600000 souls, the life-force of every living being in this dimension” can be taken literally and thus that since Ghostfreak has no life-force, he has no soul (I mean the dude eats souls for breakfast). He does however have a consciousness which is engraved in his DNA.

In other words I claim that since the Omnitrix can detransform Ben from NRG and from Ghostfreak. The Omnitrix essentially regenerates Ben’s body and his soul from data coming down to low-godly regen (I could go for mid-godly but that is essentially contradicted by the CTB). In other words it would be extremely hard for Ben to come up with something that can actually kill him (besides the CTB which gets countered by Alien X) since he probably isn’t even aware of his low-godly. This might give a small problem with his soul getting ripped out and him still dying in Ultimate Alien tho unless the Omnitrix only counts soul destruction as true death.

 

[Greenshifter]

It was clearly shown that the pocket universe was inside of Alien x where did you bring that headcanon?

... the current CRT 4 staff agreed with? Outside of space and time via WoG and visual in Vilgax Attacks? The fact that Galactic Gladiator’s body got destroyed before without the pocket dimension being affected?

 

[Greenshifter]

you can literally recall a desperado and get affected.

Nvm

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And ? kirby isn't Alien x

He's literally the same thing.

That.... Doesn't change anything I said

It doesn't but i was hoping it would be easier for you to get it. For that logic to apply Alien X would need to be inside the pocket dimension. He is not. He is a physical being standing no more than a few feet away from you that can be interacted with rather easily. What he houses inside himself is irrelevant as he is the target, not the things inside him.

Also how is this pocket reality outside of the multiverse if it's inside alien x but Alien X is within the multiverse? It's like i left my wallet at home, but the money that is within my wallet is with me.

Honestly all this twitter scans are making less and less sense.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

So? Alien X is in range. Also desperado passives aren't range related you can literally recall a desperado and get affected.

Read this, you'll understand better

the current CRT 4 staff agreed with? Outside of space and time via WoG and visual in Vilgax Attacks?

Idk what are you talking about, it was shown in multiple occasions in the show that Alien x has a pocket universe inside of his body

The fact that Galactic Gladiator’s body got destroyed before without the pocket dimension being affected?

Proof please?

 

[Greenshifter]

He's literally the same thing

Alien X doesn’t remotely function like Upchuck. Ben 10’s equivalent of Kirby.

Prove that the pocket dimension is inside Alien X for the rest of your problems.

 

[Greenshifter]

Proof please?

Ben wasn’t allowed to kill in that tourney. If he destroyed the pocket dimension he would have killed GG and get punished for it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Read this, you'll understand better

Not gonna read a whole thread.

 

[Greenshifter]

Only the OP should be necessary to understand it. Scans are a few posts down.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Also how is this pocket reality outside of the multiverse if it's inside alien x but Alien X is within the multiverse? It's like i left my wallet at home, but the money that is within my wallet is with me.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Ben wasn’t allowed to kill in that tourney. If he destroyed the pocket dimension he would have killed GG and get punished for it.

....... But that doesn't prove anything though

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Not gonna read a whole thread.

Just read the OP......

 

[Greenshifter]

....... But that doesn't prove anything though

It does because he destroyed his body and what you are arguing is that if his body gets destroyed so does his pocket dimension.

I thought that maybe the 2 could co-exist where the pocket dimension is inside his body but the inside of the pocket dimension is outside the universe.

But it seems from what Earl is saying they can’t co-exist so the pocket dimension being literally inside Alien X would probably even contradict the basic principle that Bellicus and Serena exist, can discuss and alter reality when Ben is not even transformed into Alien X and thus it should be disregarded.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

It does because he destroyed his body and what you are arguing is that if his body gets destroyed so does his pocket dimension.

Exept regeneration is a thing (he regenerated his body including his pocket universe from being completely destroyed) also Alien x and GG should have immortality type 2 based on this

 

[Greenshifter]

Bruh you can’t regenerate a destroyed dimension. That’s not how regeneration works.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Bruh you can’t regenerate a destroyed dimension. That’s not how regeneration works.

2 words : it's fiction

 

[Greenshifter]

... Let's just go with what's accepted in my CRT.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I could easily go on to argue against that.

The issue is, as i've said desperado isn't range related so it wouldn't matter either way.

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually please do so on the thread. That way I don’t have to deal with it later. Just make sure you read the entire thing then tho.

You’re right on the desperado-range stuff tho.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Actually please do so on the thread. That way I don’t have to deal with it later

Eh, couldn't be bothered to care tbh.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

He is a physical being standing no more than a few feet away from you that can be interacted with rather easily. What he houses inside himself is irrelevant as he is the target, not the things inside him.

The problem is that Alien x powers comes from his pocket universe and not from his physical body, for example if you have Transmutation skill, you'll need to have 2-B range to fully affect his body , if not then Alien x physical body will indeed get transmuted yes however Ben would still be able to use Alien x powers inside of his pocket dimension (since like I said alien x powers come from his pocket universe and not from his physical body so even if Alien x got somehow affected by "x" ability but it didn't have enough range to affect his pocket universe then Alien x would still be able to use his powers inside of his pocket universe to get rid of his opponent)

You understand how Alien x whole pocket universe work now?

 

[Greenshifter]

^ What Blanco said but replace “body” with “being” and forget about the pocket dimension being inside of his body. The white dots for instance aren’t stars.

That said no-one addressed my low-godly argument. Granted it doesn’t change much because of Ben being “afraid” and Oikage cutting through possible defeats. However I might have something against the former.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

That said no-one addressed my low-godly argument.

What argument?

 

[Greenshifter]

You see Ben lives in a time loop where he goes to the 18th century and creates the Plumbers (the cause of him eventually getting the Omnitrix) and where Vilgax gets the Chronosapien time bomb (the cause of his temporary death later on) and then goes to the beginning of time to defeat Maltruant, Paradox spreads him out across the universe/multiverse and Maltruant pulls himself together over the eons to then go to the 18th century and so on... Since Ben 10000 fought Maltruant and his son Kenny is essential for the time loop to function (he gets a suit from Paradox to time travel a subtly help out Ben), Ben would be able to deduce that the future Ikki shows him where he dies before he gets his son and becomes Ben 10000 is not real or else either the universe would collapse due to causality or Maltruant would have won, so if Ikki’s AFD doesn’t show either of those scenarios then it’s unrealistic in Ben’s eyes. I think him being scared of dying by the Big Bang doesn’t contradict this since that would be the Maltruant wins scenario.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

^ What Blanco said but replace “body” with “being” and forget about the pocket dimension being inside of his body. The white dots for instance aren’t stars.

where does the pocket universe exist then ? Still you have no proof about that

 

[Greenshifter]

What argument?

Message #91

 

[Greenshifter]

Then where does the pocket universe exist?

Unspecified location outside of the multiverse based on the outside of space and time WoG (there are 2 of those IIRC). Merely being connected to his body rather than being literally inside of it. Backed up by Vilgax Attacks showing a kind of wormhole in the transformation sequence and Bellicus and Serena existing when Ben is not transformed.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Unspecified location outside of the multiverse. Merely being connected to his body rather than being literally inside of it. Backed up by Vilgax Attacks showing a kind of wormhole in the transformation sequence and Bellicus and Serena existing when Ben is not transformed.

Then Alien x should have immortality type 9

 

[Greenshifter]

Hmm probably not. Ion can probably explain why. There’s still the thing of his DNA still being inside the universe so full body destruction could still kill him somehow (based on Vilgax Attacks and him not erasing Paradox post detransformation, granted the latter could be Paradox’s doing).

Anyways this isn’t relevant for the fight since Ikki’s hax isn’t range related so we should discuss it elsewhere.

 

[Gohanblanco217]

Hmm probably not. Ion can probably explain why. There’s still the thing of his DNA still being inside the universe so full body destruction could still kill him somehow (based on Vilgax Attacks and him not erasing Paradox post detransformation, granted the latter could be Paradox’s doing).

Limited type 9 immo should be fine though