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Ben 10 Classic Series Revision Thread Part 2

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@Starbrand_Fan Ok cool, I just have to remove all the justifications that say Armodrillo is a "weaker alien". @Antvasima Greenshifter and I spoke on discord about the scaling. Since two times isn’t usable all the time our premise is now:
Low tiers: At most 6-B+
Mid tiers: 6-B+
High tiers: High 6-B
AF Vilgax added Ultimos' power to himself so his AF self would be at least twice as strong.
 
Where does the “+” come from with low tiers? If there’s an at least 2 times gap between top and mid then also between mid and low. I don’t care about the at most anymore though since the standards for it are vague. I know it looks like I change my mind every minute but it ain’t intentional I swear, blame the previous Ben 10 ratings where everyone had “higher”.

Also maybe use Armored Kevin as the weaker “alien” everyone scales to? That way you can easily get to OS Vilgax via Kraab.
 
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Greenshifter said:
Where does the “+” come from with low tiers? If there’s an at least 2 times gap between top and mid then also between mid and low. I don’t care about the at most anymore though since the standards for it are vague. I know it looks like I change my mind every minute but it ain’t intentional I swear, blame the previous Ben 10 ratings where everyone had “higher”.
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With them being so high into 6-B+ already, simple down scaling wouldn’t make them two times weaker.
Greenshifter said:
Also maybe use Armored Kevin as the weaker “alien” everyone scales to? That way you can easily get to OS Vilgax via Kraab.
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Ok.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
With them being so high into 6-B+ already, simple down scaling wouldn’t make them two times weaker.
Click to expand...
So you’re using the 10 heroes reasoning for an at least 2 times gap between mid and top tiers, but not using that same difference between mid and low? Wouldn’t that be a bit odd, it implies that OS XLR8 stands a better chance against OS DH than OV XLR8 against OV DH?
 
Greenshifter said:
So you’re using the 10 heroes reasoning for an at least 2 times gap between mid and top tiers, but not using that same difference between mid and low? Wouldn’t that be a bit odd, it implies that OS XLR8 stands a better chance against OS DH than OV XLR8 against OV DH?
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Yes. Between mid and low there's no quantifiable gap like there is with Vilgax. So At most 6-B+ is fine.
 
What about the rest of the OP? Atomix, people who scale to Ascalon, future aliens, cosmology, ability suggestions, human scaling... Do we make a separate thread for that?
 
Greenshifter said:
I think next up on the list is Atomix, he'd get a very slight AP upgrade for scaling to 1/600th of baseline 4-C (based on him usually timing out after 10 minutes and he should be able to create a sun in that timeframe via WoG), this should scale to the other High 5-A's.
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Antvasima seems to agree.

What are your thoughts?
 
Bruh they were low-tiers before the revision. They are now unless you make a revision. That said I don’t mind too much since it’s gonna come down to the same thing, I’m just a little scared that Wildmutt and Eye Guy are gonna scale to them leading to inconsistencies.
 
Greenshifter said:
Bruh they were low-tiers before the revision. They are now unless you make a revision. That said I don’t mind too much since it’s gonna come down to the same thing, I’m just a little scared that Wildmutt and Eye Guy are gonna scale to them leading to inconsistencies.
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The only ones that are “at most” are the ones that were previously High 8-C.
 
Yeah seems like I wasn’t too clear on who was a low tier and who a mid and you did include Heatblast in OS high tier so all right fair. Just find it a little weird how both OS and OV versions of one character are both considered to be mid tier (especially if we take post-revision future aliens into account).
 
Also I’m not too opposed to just High 5-A (scaling to Way Big via Malgax), 4-C with prep (for the WoG) for Atomix if people don’t want to assume a 10 min timeframe.
 
Hol up. It's been a minute since i've watched any Ben 10. Doesn't the Tier 6 feat only scale to Vilgax's true form? He overpowered Ult Swampfire and nearly ate him, then Ben escaped via Jetray
 
Zamasu_Chan said:

My problems with the current feats​

Most of the Aliens are low 7-B to 7-A because of Armodrillo and Diamondhead. The low 7-B feat assumes the castle is five square miles and scales to internal damage anyway. As for the 7-A one; although there's nothing wrong with the feat itself, being 7-A after surviving a hit from a high 5-A was always funny to me. It's also not any kind of anti-feat. At best You can argue it's an outlier because of Malgax but I digress. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with it, there's no anti-feat, so we could potentially go higher.

My solution​

The feat​

A while ago, the low end for this calculation was accepted by Kep and I think Therefir. I was wrong about what I said before. Look closely and you'll see that Vilgax actually did manage to put Ben inside his mouth. He also just sits there instead of looking around, like I claimed, which further implies Vilgax succeed at putting Ben in his mouth. If Ben did escape, it would make sense for Vilgax to look around but he didn't.
Another thing; It doesn’t make sense for Ben to blitz Vilgax out of nowhere, considering Ben was in his grasp and the last time Ben tried to escape, Vilgax caught him without much effort. Not to mention, even Jetray couldn’t blitz him like that since they have comparable reactions.
It's very possible that they were still fighting considering how long it took Ben to get out and Kevin even says Ben is "still stomping out Vilgax."
Ben even says Vilgax survived worse, so this should indeed scale to Vilgax naturally.

The scaling​

Some might think this only scales to AF to UA to OS keys but it should scale to the OS characters as well. We know characters like Swampfire and Kevin can harm Vilgax and are comparable to Kraab. The same Kraab who's strong enough to fight a 10 year old Diamondhead. Aliens like Heatblast and even Stinkly can slightly harm Four arms, harm Diamondhead to an extent, and can even take hits from Vilgax as well as knock him down.

Conclusion​

OS mid tiers (EX: Stinklfy, Upchuck) are "at most low 6-B"
OS high tiers (EX: Diamondhead, Heatblast, Four Arms) are "low 6-B"
UAFO mid tiers (EX: Big Chill, Kevin, Swampfire) are "low 6-B"
UFAO high tiers (EX: Humungousaur, Vilgax) are "low 6-B, likely higher"
Charcters like Aggregor, U. Humungousaur, U. Echo Echo, and U. Kevin should be 6-B.
Click to expand...
I explained it all here.
 
DJW = dis-to-the-carted. Even if it were legit, the only thing I could conclude from this is that he likely uses neutron or bèta radiation, the former being backed up by the show the most.
 
No. I mean, yeah, he's said some pretty sus things, but I still don't see that as grounds to yeet everything he says.
Like in this instance, NRG literally eats radiation, so isn't it at least plausible he wouldn't be vulnerable to poisons and lead?
 
Sooo, uhhh, like... I have problems with this calc now. There are two big problems with it.

It assumes the Chimerian Hammer is at the very bottom of the Puerto Rico Trench when there’s no indication of it reaching the bottom.
To put this in perspective, the Titanic took 5 minutes to sink 12,500 feet. The Chimerian Hammer was sinking for 2 minutes and 11 seconds before it exploded, and the Puerto Rico Trench is 27,560 feet deep. If ships take 5 minutes to sink 12k feet then 2 minutes isn’t nearly enough time for the ship to sink 27k feet.

My second issue is the cross sectional area. Even if Vilgax took the blast point blank, his durability would only be half the yield due to the surface area. The cross sectional takes into account how far Vilgax was from the blast. The farther away you are from the blast, the lower the results are.

So all in all, it needs to be recalced taking these into account.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
Sooo, uhhh, like... I have problems with this calc now. There are two big problems with it.

It assumes the Chimerian Hammer is at the very bottom of the Puerto Rico Trench when there’s no indication of it reaching the bottom.
To put this in perspective, the Titanic took 5 minutes to sink 12,500 feet. The Chimerian Hammer was sinking for 2 minutes and 11 seconds before it exploded, and the Puerto Rico Trench is 27,560 feet deep. If ships take 5 minutes to sink 12k feet then 2 minutes isn’t nearly enough time for the ship to sink 27k feet.

My second issue is the cross sectional area. Even if Vilgax took the blast point blank, his durability would only be half the yield due to the surface area. The cross sectional takes into account how far Vilgax was from the blast. The farther away you are from the blast, the lower the results are.

So all in all, it needs to be recalced taking these into account.
Click to expand...
These seem like valid concerns.

@Migue79

Since you evaluated the old calculation, what do you think?
 
Always thought it was kinda funky that everyone was 6-B. Anyway, once the calc is adjusted, we can look over all the feats again since I sincerely doubt every alien scales to one feat.
 
Would somebody be willing to recalculate the feat in question according to Zamasu's concerns?
 
Should we put Maltruant and Clockwork tier 6B for now since Maltruant able overpower rook even without his time power:
 
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