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Ben 10 Classic Series Revision Thread Part 2

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I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can inform me later if you need my help after you reach a conclusion.
 
The nukes got sucked into the same door that Vilgax flew into. It’s very likely that they’re extremely close to Vilgax when he goes boom.
 
So I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not, but the HyperSpace - Jump Gate that WayBig lifted was not pure Neutronium, but Neutronium Carbon Alloy. I'm pretty certain that would affect the weight of the gate right?
 
NostalgiaTrip said:
So I don't know if this was mentioned yet or not, but the HyperSpace - Jump Gate that WayBig lifted was not pure Neutronium, but Neutronium Carbon Alloy. I'm pretty certain that would affect the weight of the gate right?
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Barely, Firestorm already did a recalc for AP and the weight he got as a result barely varies from the one currently on Way Big's page. The carbon in carbon-iron alloys for instance only take about 2-4 wt% of the composition after all and we can probably use the same logic of it getting brittle after a certain wt% on neutronium.
 
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What are the conclusions here so far?
 
It seems that the High 7-C ICBM Vilgax calc has been accepted. The upgrade can be applied to the respective profiles.
 
Firestorm808 said:
It seems that the High 7-C ICBM Vilgax calc has been accepted. The upgrade can be applied to the respective profiles.
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Okay. That is probably fine then.
 
DD fixed the issue. I think next up on the list is Atomix, he'd get a very slight AP upgrade for scaling to 1/600th of baseline 4-C (based on him usually timing out after 10 minutes and he should be able to create a sun in that timeframe via WoG), this should scale to the other High 5-A's.

Edit: Oh and True Form Vilgax would get a key where he's Low 6-B, Griffin seems to have accepted it higher in the thread.
 
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That seems to make sense.
 
I want to bring up something and I know this has probably been suggested before many times... but an Upgrade of Alien X and CelestialSapiens as a whole. But I'm only using two different facts.

First of all, Alien X has a range that spans the multiverse. This is because of the fact that he scales to other CelestialSapiens. In fact, it was a single CP that redesigned the entire multiverse.

Second of all, the Multiverse Preservation Act exists to keep them from doing anything that would put the multiverse in danger. I'm bringing this up because a single CP has shown the clear ability to restore an entire universe with a single thought. It was like child's play to Alien X. Even Dwayne Mcduffie made a joke about Alien X being able to destroy the multiverse

So the only thing that we haven't seen is a CP actually destroy the multiverse. But the evidence is already there that supports the idea of them being capable of destroying the multiverse.

I'd like to move for a - Likely 2-B - Rating.
 
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NostalgiaTrip said:
I want to bring up something and I know this has probably been suggested before many times... but an Upgrade of Alien X and CelestialSapiens as a whole. But I'm only using two different facts.

First of all, Alien X has a range that spans the multiverse. This is because of the fact that he scales to other CelestialSapiens. In fact, it was a single CP that redesigned the entire multiverse.

Second of all, the Multiverse Preservation Act exists to keep them from doing anything that would put the multiverse in danger. I'm bringing this up because a single CP has shown the clear ability to restore an entire universe with a single thought. It was like child's play to Alien X. Even Dwayne Mcduffie made a joke about Alien X being able to destroy the multiverse

So the only thing that we haven't seen is a CP actually destroy the multiverse. But the evidence is already there that supports the idea of them being capable of destroying the multiverse.

I'd like to move for a - Likely 2-B - Rating.
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You’re too late. There's already a plan to upgrade alien x behind the scenes, so you’re gonna have to wait.
 
I have an interesting premise that you could add to the OP. This revision hasn’t been going anywhere so I just want to hurry this up.
 

My problems with the current feats​

Most of the Aliens are low 7-B to 7-A because of Armodrillo and Diamondhead. The low 7-B feat assumes the castle is five square miles and scales to internal damage anyway. As for the 7-A one; although there's nothing wrong with the feat itself, being 7-A after surviving a hit from a high 5-A was always funny to me. It's also not any kind of anti-feat. At best You can argue it's an outlier because of Malgax but I digress. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with it, there's no anti-feat, so we could potentially go higher.

My solution​

The feat​

A while ago, the low end for this calculation was accepted by Kep and I think Therefir. I was wrong about what I said before. Look closely and you'll see that Vilgax actually did manage to put Ben inside his mouth. He also just sits there instead of looking around, like I claimed, which further implies Vilgax succeed at putting Ben in his mouth. If Ben did escape, it would make sense for Vilgax to look around but he didn't.
Another thing; It doesn’t make sense for Ben to blitz Vilgax out of nowhere, considering Ben was in his grasp and the last time Ben tried to escape, Vilgax caught him without much effort. Not to mention, even Jetray couldn’t blitz him like that since they have comparable reactions.
It's very possible that they were still fighting considering how long it took Ben to get out and Kevin even says Ben is "still stomping out Vilgax."
Ben even says Vilgax survived worse, so this should indeed scale to Vilgax naturally.

The scaling​

Some might think this only scales to AF to UA to OS keys but it should scale to the OS characters as well. We know characters like Swampfire and Kevin can harm Vilgax and are comparable to Kraab. The same Kraab who's strong enough to fight a 10 year old Diamondhead. Aliens like Heatblast and even Stinkly can slightly harm Four arms, harm Diamondhead to an extent, and can even take hits from Vilgax as well as knock him down.

Conclusion​

OS mid tiers (EX: Stinklfy, Upchuck) are "at most low 6-B"
OS high tiers (EX: Diamondhead, Heatblast, Four Arms) are "low 6-B"
UAFO mid tiers (EX: Big Chill, Kevin, Swampfire) are "low 6-B"
UFAO high tiers (EX: Humungousaur, Vilgax) are "low 6-B, likely higher"
Charcters like Aggregor, U. Humungousaur, U. Echo Echo, and U. Kevin should be 6-B.
 
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I have some problems with this, although not necessarily opposed to it since it might just be nitpicks.
 
Also, before anyone brings up the explosion almost killing him. He survived without a scratch. He only said he was too weak to transform back, and that was after he got beat up by Ben and Kevin as well as taking the explosion. Plus, like I pointed out, Ben said he’s survived worse.
 
We’ve probably seen everything Ben knows Vilgax survived on-screen. He didn’t survive worse. He also didn’t survive without a scratch, he looks really weak when he tells his story.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
You’re saying this like you know this personally yet you have no basis for it.

I already explained this. What visible injuries do you see on him?
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He said "he was too weak to transform into his original form" implies he's been exhausted from battle against Ben's Swampfire and (his evolved form) and Kevin.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
The low 7-B feat assumes the castle is five square miles
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Pretty sure there's an explicit 5 square mile statement.
Zamasu_Chan said:
It doesn’t make sense for Ben to blitz Vilgax out of nowhere
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Ultimate Aggregor managed to blitz Addwaitya with his flight speed before and Jetray's flight speed is still MFTL+. That said you might be right that he did still end up in his mouth regardless.

by Vilgax did state water was his element which implied he got amped and seemed like that as well when he started overwhelming Ultimate Swampfire. It’s also possible (heck even very likely considering he’s literally in him) that Jetray used internal damage to hurt Vilgax, similar to Nanomech vs Way Big or Diamondhead vs Slamworm.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
You’re saying this like you know this personally yet you have no basis for it.
Click to expand...
Fair.
Zamasu_Chan said:
I already explained this. What visible injuries do you see on him?
Click to expand...
He looks smaller and this is like a few weeks after the fact.
DemonicDude said:
He said "he was too weak to transform into his original form" implies he's been exhausted from battle against Ben's Swampfire and (his evolved form) and Kevin.
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Vilgax has some insane stamina feats such as fighting an ectonurite army for a few weeks or surviving being frozen in space for a month after being hit by a weapon made to kill him. No way in hell Kevin + Ben tired him in a brief fight.
 
Assuming Zamasu debunks all of what I just said I propose the following:


OS mid tiers (EX: Stinklfy) are "at most low 6-B" (pretty much baseline)
OS high tiers (EX: Diamondhead) are "at most low 6-B" (about 2 times baseline)
UAFO mid tiers (EX: Big Chill) are "at most low 6-B" (about 2 times baseline)
UFAO high tiers (EX: Humungousaur) are "low 6-B+" (scale directly to the calc, maybe a little under)
Charcters like Ultimate Aggregor and above, that aren’t tier 5, should be 6-B.

This is based on OS Vilgax absorbing the power of Ultimos and 9 other warriors to become AF Vilgax (at least 2 times stronger than his OS self) and the version of Malware that fights Humungousaur being his flashback third form self who is superior to OS DH and Four Arms + Rook’s Proto Tool, which also scales to OS DH and Four Arms (making this Malware at least 2 times stronger than OS Four Arms and DH). The gap in power between aliens should remain the same between series, so for instance if OV DH > 2* OV XLR8 then OS DH > 2* OS XLR8.
 
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Greenshifter said:
.He looks smaller and this is like a few weeks after the fact.

Vilgax has some insane stamina feats such as fighting an ectonurite army for a few weeks or surviving being frozen in space for a month after being hit by a weapon made to kill him. No way in hell Kevin + Ben tired him in a brief fight.
Click to expand...
It’s unlikely his true form is capable of those feats considering he exclusively needs water to survive.
 
The point was more so that his fight with Ben and Kevin didn’t matter at all since he still had his regular form stamina which hardly got depleted, after which he easily overwhelmed Ult. swampfire which also doesn’t deplete his stamina. Meaning practically all of his stamina depletion came from the explosion.

Also he probably can’t just breathe on land so why would that matter, the explosion depleted his stamina so he couldn’t turn back to safely breathe on land. His manners of getting oxygen has nothing to do with his stamina.
 
Ok, if the explosion depleted his stamina then fine. He survived with no injuries (you said he got smaller but there’s no basis for this) so the ratings are fine. Btw what are your suggestions?
 
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