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Ben 10- Acausality Type 4 addition and Causality manp Addition.

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As per our Acausality page, Just being beyond, outside of Spacetime do not qualify Acausality unless it's relationship with Cause & effect has been established or explained:

Note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.

In Ben 10 relationship between causality and Spacetime has been explained on several occasions and infact are the samething. Here when Paradox and Ben went to the beginning of Ben prime timeline through which all other realities diverge (after vilgax destroys all of timelines), paradox explains how all of timelines and Alternate realities are bound within the same system of cause and effect that is Ben prime would receive his omnitrix which will lead to all of alternate realities to diverge and will set the vilgax continuum which was the continuum of alternate timeline (Destroying all of timelines except one). Later on Paradox as well implies that how destroying All of Time can destroy causality itself which fits the previous established relationship that how all of time are connected via cause and effect.

Forge of creation; A place where celestial sapiens are born is inclosed by a chronal randomization barrier making it disconnected or outside of sync with "All Time (causality continuum)" and yes, Outside of all Time here stands for multiverse given that they're literally outside the universe and can see universes with different laws/physics/etc, a Universe itself has Dimensions with fast, slow and even Dimensions where Time stood still which can cause people to stop aging. Forge of creation is as well said to be entirely unreachable and hidden unless you have the map of infinity or you're forge inhabitants (Alien X), you can't enter or find it. It was as well implied that Alien X is unaffected with the past change, given that if they saved dinosaurs from extinction, human beings won't be able to survive and so Ben will stop existing which will result in Alien X never coming in existence which will not be the case (they won't be dumb enough to kill themselves). Further supported by WOG that CPs lives outside of Spacetime

Conclusion: There is enough implication and established relationship between Time and causality that it can be said that existing outside of it does mean existing outside of its causality system. Also that Alien X can create chrononavogator and has created before which can destroy all of time and causality itself, he should have causality manp via weapon creation.

Agree: @Firestorm808, @DarkDragonMedeus , @LordGriffin1000 ,@Fixxed , @Dagoth_OwO , @Greenshifter , @DemonicDude , @Aachintya31 , @Thelastmlg , @Alexander , @LuffyRuffy46307 , @Artorimachi_Meteoraft , @Larssx , @Barbar01, @MrLuk2000 , @AnimesFreak2

Disagree:

Neutral:
 
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As per our Acausality page, Just being beyond, outside of Spacetime do not qualify Acausality unless it's relationship with Cause & effect has been established or explained:

Note: Being completely independent of time or laws; or similar forces, does not make you completely independent of causality without the relationship between these forces and causality being clarified, with it only being considered as evidence for an irregular relationship with causality otherwise.

In Ben 10 relationship between causality and Spacetime has been explained on several occasions and infact are the samething. Here when Paradox and Ben went to the beginning of Ben prime timeline through which all other realities diverge (after vilgax destroys all of timelines), paradox explains how all of timelines and Alternate realities are bound within the same system of cause and effect that is Ben prime would receive his omnitrix which will lead to all of alternate realities to diverge and will set the vilgax continuum which was the continuum of alternate timeline (Destroying all of timelines except one). Later on Paradox as well implies that how destroying All of Time can destroy causality itself which fits the previous established relationship that how all of time are connected via cause and effect.

Forge of creation; A place where celestial sapiens are born is inclosed by a chronal randomization barrier making it disconnected or outside of sync with "All Time (causality continuum)" and yes, Outside of all Time here stands for multiverse given that they're literally outside the universe and can see universes with different laws/physics/etc, a Universe itself has Dimensions with fast, slow and even Dimensions where Time stood still which can cause people to stop aging. Forge of creation is as well said to be entirely unreachable and hidden unless you have the map of infinity or you're forge inhabitants (Alien X), you can't enter or find it. It was as well implied that Alien X is unaffected with the past change, given that if they saved dinosaurs from extinction, human beings won't be able to survive and so Ben will stop existing which will result in Alien X never coming in existence which will not be the case (they won't be dumb enough to kill themselves). Further supported by WOG that CPs lives outside of Spacetime

Conclusion: There is enough implication and established relationship between Time and causality that it can be said that existing outside of it does mean existing outside of its causality system. Also that Alien X can create chrononavogator and has created before which can destroy all of time and causality itself, he should have causality manp via weapon creation.
Agree
 
To take the Navigator causing irreperable damage to all of time and causality itself one step further: Servantis, a supergenius, stated that Ben as a Celestialsapien could wish everything out of existence. Now Servantis is constantly spying on Ben and has access to the information in the Plumber database due to being the leader of a black ops unit (we also know Plumbers in-training learn about Ben in school). To go even further with this, Aggregor is an Osmosian and because we know Servantis is the one who discovered Osmosians (mutant humans), this means Aggregor is one of Servantis' projects and would thus get the majority of his information from him. Now what does Aggregor know? Merely the exact location of all pieces of the map of Infinity, the most important object in the universe, which are spread out across the universe. Using the map he travelled to the Forge of Creation and almost became omnipotent by absorbing a baby Celestialsapien which he knew was there. THAT is the level of knowledge Servantis is operating on. All these factors combined would mean that Servantis would know about the capabilities of the Chrono Navigator, much like Eon (an alternate version of Ben) does, or at least include causality itself when stating that Alien X can erase literally everything.

Since Ben has never displayed any suicidal tendencies against Kevin, it would make no sense for Servantis to tell Kevin that Ben would perform such an action as Kevin would not believe him + Servantis himself stated that Ben lived up to be the threat he made him out to be. As such Alien X can survive and function after nuking causality itself which would grant him acausality type 4 or maybe even type 5.
 
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Type 4 or 5 (check my reasoning too)?
Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible. Though the character is completely Independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond it's feats.

I would say type 4 since I don't think we have "interacting with them normally is impossible."
 
Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality are completely independent of cause and effect, existing outside causality. Characters of this nature require evidence of being unable to be changed by any effect that relies on a system of causality, meaning that interacting with them normally is impossible. Though the character is completely Independent of causality to the point of being unaffected by any outside change, this only extends to as far as evidence shows and not to things beyond it's feats.

I would say type 4 since I don't think we have "interacting with them normally is impossible."
Maybe only for their pocket dimension?
 
I couldn't quite decipher the relevance of this part for aca4
Being outside of spacetime which is a system of cause and effect in the verse, All Timelines, All alternate realities, All of existence (All Time) falls under it while Alien X and forge of creation do not.
 
Being outside of spacetime which is a system of cause and effect in the verse, All Timelines, All alternate realities, All of existence (All Time) falls under it while Alien X and forge of creation do not.
Then this layered aca 4?
 
It was as well implied that Alien X is unaffected with the past change, given that if they saved dinosaurs from extinction, human beings won't be able to survive and so Ben will stop existing which will result in Alien X never coming in existence which will not be the case (they won't be dumb enough to kill themselves).
I don't think this can be used as a back-up. Because the fact that the dinosaurs will continue to exist will not prevent Alien X from existing, because even if the Omnitrix is not in Ben's hands, it can still fall into the hands of another alien.

Also, if this upgrade is accepted, will Kevin also have Aca4? Because iirc, Kevin was able to interact with Alien X.

And I am neutral for now
 
I don't think this can be used as a back-up. Because the fact that the dinosaurs will continue to exist will not prevent Alien X from existing, because even if the Omnitrix is not in Ben's hands, it can still fall into the hands of another alien.
Azmuth created omnitrix as the consequences of ascalon, so it either wouldn't be made or even if then ben existence itself will be under danger "one of Alien X personality" and bellicus was about to explain ben the advantages of dinosaurs not going extinct, ben cease to exist can't be one, regardless it's just a supportive evidence all else is just that Alien X lives outside of the continuum (causality)
Also, if this upgrade is accepted, will Kevin also have Aca4? Because iirc, Kevin was able to interact with Alien X
No, Kevin won't receive it. Simply interacting with someone who has acausality do not grant acausality by default.
 
Oh well NVM, w/o ben Universe won't come into existence itself as we know it. Neither Azmuth, not omnitrix as He is the sole reason of the Universe is in being. So supporting evidence itself needs acausality regardless.
 
It's better to call the people knowledgeable in acausality:
 
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