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Beerus VS Flandre Scarlet

It does matter when no one agrees with your interpretation.

Too bad, that's what it says on the profile. Plus again, Paralysis isn't hax without good proof of it. It's just a force like any other. It can be overpowered. Especially if it wasn't done on any Low 2-C.
 
-If her ability is akin to EE, then Beerus should be able to resist it. It was shown numerous times in dragonball that a character can resist that hax with sheer power alone. Beerus would be decently up there on that EE Resistance chain.

-Also, this range argument for Beerus makes 0 sense. Beerus is above Toppo, who had his hakai cover all the WOV which is infinite in size. Even if we ignore that, Beerus's hakai's range should be comparable to all his other attacks, which have been shown to cross universe 7. This makes alot more sense than to assume Beerus hakai randomly only works 5 feet in front of him.

Also Beerus FRA ƒÿ®
 
The real cal howard said:
Wok I can promise over half of the characters on the wiki don't end their important fights within a couple hits unless they're tier 9. I'd be willing to go 90% of characters don't act like that. Because that's boring.
Click to expand...
Diavolo:

811F4B5C-3A98-431F-97EB-398762CBFD0B
 
ArmBill said:
-If her ability is akin to EE, then Beerus should be able to resist it. It was shown numerous times in dragonball that a character can resist that hax with sheer power alone. Beerus would be decently up there on that EE Resistance chain.
-Also, this range argument for Beerus makes 0 sense. Beerus is above Toppo, who had his hakai cover all the WOV which is infinite in size. Even if we ignore that, Beerus's hakai's range should be comparable to all his other attacks, which have been shown to cross universe 7. This makes alot more sense than to assume Beerus hakai randomly only works 5 feet in front of him.

Also Beerus FRA ƒÿ®
Click to expand...
>This is not DBS, say that he can resist Flandre's destruction only because in DB more power = resistance is not valid. Even by you logic the Flandre would be able to resists Beerus' hakai

>You're superior to someone =/= you have the same powers, unless you think Remilia has space-time manip because she's superior to Sakuya, this arguments doesn't makes sense, why Beerus' hakai should be comparable to his others attacks?? And when does his attacks shown cross universe 7?? And how much time it take to do this?? And that was a filler scene, or had relevance in the anime??
 
The real cal howard said:
Both of you, why tf do you think people say "x character takes this 7/10 times"? Because it's a matter of probability. Who takes this more often than not. Who wins the most out of ten times. And if something is 50/50, then you have to look at the little things because that's how debating works.
@Dragon. You're right. I wouldn't. I'd argue who has the better gun skill, who has the better gun, who has faster reactions, etc.

@Saik. You're right. This isn't Death Battle. The way of making decisions from of a bunch of randos is totally better than that of large corporate funded things like Death Battle and Deadliest Warrior.
Click to expand...
If two characters start with the same, haxxy move every time, then the probability of them using anything else for the entire battle, without ever resorting to said hax, is so small that it's not even worth considering as anything except Inconclusive.

Incon FRA.
 
ArmBill said:
-If her ability is akin to EE, then Beerus should be able to resist it. It was shown numerous times in dragonball that a character can resist that hax with sheer power alone. Beerus would be decently up there on that EE Resistance chain.

-Also, this range argument for Beerus makes 0 sense. Beerus is above Toppo, who had his hakai cover all the WOV which is infinite in size. Even if we ignore that, Beerus's hakai's range should be comparable to all his other attacks, which have been shown to cross universe 7. This makes alot more sense than to assume Beerus hakai randomly only works 5 feet in front of him.

Also Beerus FRA ƒÿ®
Click to expand...
Not how it works. If anything, DB hax being resisted through sheer power makes it a weakness of said hax.

WOV being infinite is a mistranslation, plus Beerus in-character has never done this.
 
@Creeplord

-If Flamdre's ability is similar to EE then Beerus should be able to resist it, due to the fact that power in DB allows you to resist that sort of thing. Power wouldn't normally give you resistance to hax unless the series directly says so. So flandre sheer power wouldn't give her the ability to resist EE. That would be a benefit of Beerus, not Flandre. Plus from what I've seen Beerus is alot stronger anyways.

- Toppo is a novice God of Destruction. He obtained the ability of hakai by just becoming a God of Destruction. Beerus not only did that but had millions of years of experience to develop his hakai ability. Plus its shown that Toppo's hakai is less developed by the fact he had to charge it and shoot it through energy spears.

-Beerus and Goku created shockwaves, and energy spears that crossed and would of crossed through out all of U7 in seconds. This was Beerus at less than 1% of his power, so Beerus should easily be able to replicate all of these on his own, since they were all power based. All scenes shown in the dbs anime are indeed canon to the dbs anime so this applys here.

@Shadow

-Not at all, these haxs still have the properties of haxs. If you're able to flex and deflect these haxs then it's a benefit of the user.

-Huh? Both Toei and Funimatio would disagree with that. The former being the creators of the super anime.

-Not the point, the fact is that a pseudo hakai has been shown to cross infinte distance. The well developed hakai that Beerus uses should have no range issue as people in the thread were implying.
 
"If *Flandre's ability is similar to EE then Beerus should be able to resist it, due to the fact that power in DB allows you to resist that sort of thing. Power wouldn't normally give you resistance to hax unless the series directly says so. So flandre sheer power wouldn't give her the ability to resist EE. That would be a benefit of Beerus, not Flandre. Plus from what I've seen Beerus is alot stronger anyways."

That's not how works. You're trying to put the logic of a verse in a vs, which is totally bullshit, it's like I say something like stands can only be touched and harmed by others stands because that's how JoJo's works. And see this convenience, trying to apply DBlogic to Beerus but with Flan doesn't work, nice NLF dude.

"Toppo is a novice God of Destruction. He obtained the ability of hakai by just becoming a God of Destruction. Beerus not only did that but had millions of years of experience to develop his hakai ability. Plus its shown that Toppo's hakai is less developed by the fact he had to charge it and shoot it through energy spears."

XD. Have more experience =/= you have the same techniques as your inferior. As I told you, give me a scan that proves me that Beerus can uses his hakai like Toppo, not this speculation. Patchouli has more experience over magic than Marisa, but she can't steal others powers like Marisa do(?, even their magic are totally different, the same apply to Beerus and Toppo, not everything is PS.

"Beerus and Goku created shockwaves, and energy spears that crossed and would of crossed through out all of U7 in seconds. This was Beerus at less than 1% of his power, so Beerus should easily be able to replicate all of these on his own, since they were all power based. All scenes shown in the dbs anime are indeed canon to the dbs anime so this applys here."

The shockwaves was only for the impact, not direct speed. With the energy is the same thing, so doesn't scale. Speculating again? When does Beerus shows that his hakai has the same range and speed than those shockwaves?? Show me one scan/proof/reason of that, don't come here telling that he can do it because you said so, or because a bad power scaling.

Anyway is not important, Flandre would be equal to Kaguya in speed, which with her Instantaneus manip can do anything in a mere instant, this = infinite speed. Take NLF over NLF
 
False equivalence, I'm trying to point out that dragonball characters are resistant to EE through their sheer power, which the vids I linked undoubtedly showed. That isnt a NLF, I never said they're immune to EE. With the jojo example, you absolutely would fit that logic into a verses battle. But heres the thing, you would connect the dots and come to conclusions if you can harm souls(Cause that's what stands are iirc) or hurt non corporal being then you hurt stands.

I dont think you understand how the hakai energy works. Hakai energy is something every G.O.D has It was shown you obtain this when accept the role of as God of Destruction, as shown with Toppo in the TOP. Belmod even stated that energy of destruction is a power that only belongs to the gods of destruction. You're example dosent work here because energy of destruction is a corresponding energy that all G.O.D. have. Beerus even understood what Toppo was trying to do and his weaknesses, when he just obtained hakai energy. Beerus would have no problem performing Toppos feats, especially since hes stronger and has better knowledge over hakai energy.

The main point here was to show the range of his attacks. Using occams razor it makes alot more sense to assume Beerus's hakai has similar range as all his other attacks, a lesser G.O.D as Toppo, or even sidra. Saying Beerus's range is only like 5 meters in front if him is head canon nonsense.

Also, your incredulity to belive the power scaling in super doesn't make it any less valid, even if it gets wild at times.
 
I'm not gonna comment on the rest of it, but isn't the idea that only G.O.D's have Hakai incorrect with Goku having the technique?

I know it was in the manga, but manga and Anime are both cannon.
 
Nope. But what is it? I read through its description and couldn't equate it to any power here, other than Death Manipulation.
 
Yeah they're both canon, but you cant really apply things from the manga to the anime. Since they're completely diffrent continuities. But for now Belmod's statment is true for the anime.

@raikou What is it then?
 
From reading the description of the ability, would it even apply to other verses? Everything in their verse has an "eye" but not necessarily every other verse would. But the description is a little vague so I could be wrong.
 
Huh. There are tons of verses with unique mechanics. That's why verse equalization exists. How it would work just isn't very clear at first glance.
 
It's...not though. It works on meteorites. And makes them explode.

I'd lean more towards matter manip, or some dura-negging form of explosion manip.
 
Let's not start again with that irrelevant "does it apply" business. We are debating, which means we are equalizing stuff, which means we automatically assume techniques are applicable out of verse unless there's some added caveat.

Therefore, Beerus has an eye just as we assume composite human has a soul to get soul ****** even if we don't know souls exist in the real world. Drop the issue because it's literally gonna go nowhere, I have no clue why it even came up either.

Still, at no point has Hakai been a starting move of Beerus, I don't know why this is a thing if it even is one, while Flan uses her hax a lot and for a lot of stuff. So my vote goes for her, its way more likely she starts with a killing move.
 
Dvorak1902 said:
I thought Death Hax could work on anything. Like Yogiri Takatou does.
I didn't know about the explosion part though. Maybe it's another damn EoSD/Jojo reference.
Click to expand...
Flandre has used destruction ability on a meteor and it basically caused it to fall apart/implode
 
"False equivalence, I'm trying to point out that dragonball characters are resistant to EE through their sheer power, which the vids I linked undoubtedly showed. That isnt a NLF, I never said they're immune to EE. With the jojo example, you absolutely would fit that logic into a verses battle. But heres the thing, you would connect the dots and come to conclusions if you can harm souls(Cause that's what stands are iirc) or hurt non corporal being then you hurt stands."

Even after seeing those videos, do you really think that this resistance really scale through who is more powerful? Nothing proves it, one video is just an anti-hax for Frieza, the other doesn't really prove anything (unless of course, you think that Vegeta getting angered with Toppo = resistance to EE. Besides that this would be only Vegeta's resistance, not scalable), and the other it's just the same Frieza. aka not scalable (the last one I can't see it because in this laptop the link it's blocked). Can you give me a prove about what you're saying, that is not a doubtful PS?? The thing with the stands is different to just only touching spirits or souls, the same verse explains you that the stands can only e touched by stands, that's why there is something called verse equalization.

"I dont think you understand how the hakai energy works. Hakai energy is something every G.O.D has It was shown you obtain this when accept the role of as God of Destruction, as shown with Toppo in the TOP. Belmod even stated that energy of destruction is a power that only belongs to the gods of destruction. You're example *doesn't work here because energy of destruction is a corresponding energy that all G.O.D. have. Beerus even understood what Toppo was trying to do and his weaknesses, when he just obtained hakai energy. Beerus would have no problem performing Toppos feats, especially since hes stronger and has better knowledge over hakai energy."

Ok. How that is something that every god has shows me that every god has the same kind of Hakai? I'm not saying that the energy it's something that only gods have, I'm saying that this statements doesn't prove me that eeevery god has the same capabilities with this hax, unless of course, you can prove me that. And again, being more powerful =/= same hax/capabilities of a technique. Give me at least one statement that shows that and I'll believe you. And what does Beerus show with his hakai btw??

"The main point here was to show the range of his attacks. Using occams razor it makes alot more sense to assume Beerus's hakai has similar range as all his other attacks, a lesser G.O.D as Toppo, or even sidra. Saying Beerus's range is only like 5 meters in front if him is head canon nonsense."

The range was only by the blows he had with Goku, and the other video it's just an energy explosion. Why this can prove me that this is equivalent to the range that his projectiles or the hakai can reach?? And you're saying that I'm doing a headcanon, but you're assuming that the range he has by clashing punchs with Goku it's the same as the range that his projectiles can reach xdxdxddddd. Unless you can give me a prove of what are you saying, this is still a high tier lvl speculation.

"Also, your incredulity to belive the power scaling in super doesn't make it any less valid, even if it gets wild at times."

Perhaps nope, but only proves the contradictory that DB is in general xdd.
 
@Creeplord

Vegeta literally talked about countering hakai with his power(which is indeed showed). Goku, frieza, and Vegeta all reisted hakai. They and many other characters share a commonality in terms of ki. They dont have some random resistance that only they have. If they can flex their muscles and reist EE, than theres no reason Beerus cant, since he shares the same power set as them(Ki). Yeah, thats how it works in jojo and is indeed correct. But if a character can harm something similar to a stand, which is pretty much a non corporal being. Then they can harm a stand, unless other factors deny that possiblity.

Yeah, they dont have the same capacity, Toppo is a novice and cant do all the things Beerus can do. Toppo literally just recived his hakai energy. All they're doing is manipulating this energy for desired effects. Beerus has much greater mastery such as not needing to charge his attacks, instantly hits the target, etc. Toppo showing of his hakai affecting all the WOV was somewhat ap base anyway, and a simplistic use of his hax. Like I mentioned before Beerus is much stronger so he can replicate Toppo's feat. Plus all toppo did was shoot raw energy, Beerus has a improved version of hakai like ive shown. There is really no reason Beerus cant do the same things Toppo has done. Using Beerus's superior hakai at a long range akin to what Toppo did with his inferior hakai ball. Iirc Beerus even said he can erase people across space and time, the only thing that stop it from working was Black's timering which makes him acasual.

Ssg Goku and suppressed Beerus are ants compared fo full powered Beerus. All they're doing is clashing aka using their power. Beerus could easily replicate that at higher power. If they can create a shockwaves and energy ball that can cross U7 then it shows they have good range with miscellaneous attacks. We've never seen Beerus specifically have his hakai go that far, but using occams razor its makes alot more sense to assume they're relative unless stated otherwise. It would make no sense for Beerus to have to attacks cross universal distances but not be able to the same with his hakai, which have even been show to be use at long distances with other characters.

@Lsir Its not that deep, it was just a simple question. Also Beerus used hakai twice as his first move. Against Zamasu and Dr Mashirito, which shows he'll use it against people who he deems big threats or people who just annoy him. Other times he showed an intrest before hand in fighting the opponent, or likely couldnt hakai the opponent aka Champa.
 
Its Ap based in dragonball, which is why they're resistant to EE. Any other verse couldn't resist hakai through Ap unless stated or shown they could resist EE through raw power in their verse.
 
That's not what Shadow is saying. Hakai is based solely on AP. If you're more powerful than your opponent, you resist it, like Frieza. However, if you're weaker than your opponent, you'll get erased, like Zamasu.

We can't imply that other verses fall under this because they've never shown to have the same rules as Dragon Ball.

And Flandre's crushing ability isn't even EE, like Saikou said.
 
ArmBill said:
Its Ap based in dragonball, which is why they're resistant to EE. Any other verse couldn't resist hakai through Ap unless stated or shown they could resist EE through raw power in their verse.
Click to expand...
That logic is extremely biased to say the least.

If an ability is shown to be ineffective against stronger opponents, it just doesn't work on stronger opponents. No need to invent these warped explanations on why it's somehow special to Dragon Ball characters when that's a completely baseless headcanon.
 
"Vegeta literally talked about countering hakai with his power(which is indeed showed). Goku, frieza, and Vegeta all reisted hakai. They and many other characters share a commonality in terms of ki. They dont have some random resistance that only they have. If they can flex their muscles and reist EE, than theres no reason Beerus cant, since he shares the same power set as them(Ki). Yeah, thats how it works in jojo and is indeed correct. But if a character can harm something similar to a stand, which is pretty much a non corporal being. Then they can harm a stand, unless other factors deny that possiblity."

Counter with his power =/= everyone can do it. Show me proof and I'll believe it, not only speculations over the AP and this stuff, they just have resistance over EE, not scalable to Beerus because he never demostrated it. No it's not the same, the anime directly states that no one who is a stand user can't touch a stand, speculations are not allowed dude, that's why there's somehing called verse equalization.

"Yeah, they dont have the same capacity, Toppo is a novice and cant do all the things Beerus can do. Toppo literally just recived his hakai energy. All they're doing is manipulating this energy for desired effects. Beerus has much greater mastery such as not needing to charge his attacks, instantly hits the target, etc. Toppo showing of his hakai affecting all the WOV was somewhat ap base anyway, and a simplistic use of his hax. Like I mentioned before Beerus is much stronger so he can replicate Toppo's feat. Plus all toppo did was shoot raw energy, Beerus has a improved version of hakai like ive shown. There is really no reason Beerus cant do the same things Toppo has done. Using Beerus's superior hakai at a long range akin to what Toppo did with his inferior hakai ball. Iirc Beerus even said he can erase people across space and time, the only thing that stop it from working was Black's timering which makes him acasual."

Yeah, that's are the things that Beerus can do with his hakai, totally different from Toppo, and maybe the reason of why his hakai is more powerful. But as I told you, this doesn't means that Beerus can do the same as Toppo. Stop doing Ad Nauseam repeating that Beerus can replicate Toppo's feats because yolo and bring one statement/feat of that at least xd.

"Ssg Goku and suppressed Beerus are ants compared fo full powered Beerus. All they're doing is clashing aka using their power. Beerus could easily replicate that at higher power. If they can create a shockwaves and energy ball that can cross U7 then it shows they have good range with miscellaneous attacks. We've never seen Beerus specifically have his hakai go that far, but using occams razor its makes alot more sense to assume they're relative unless stated otherwise. It would make no sense for Beerus to have to attacks cross universal distances but not be able to the same with his hakai, which have even been show to be use at long distances with other characters."

I know they are ants compared to Beerus, but how this prove me that Beerus' hakai has the same range?? Why Beerus "easily replicating" that shockwave at a higher power = can do the same with hakai?? And you say it, we never seen Beerus specifically have his hakai go that far, so we can't make speculations and conclusions about it.

Surely that's make more sense that say that his hakai has the same range at his base attacks xdddddd. And when does he fires a projectile to this range?? Can you give me links or something that I can see to prove that?? If your argument is a scaling of the shockwaves by clashing with Goku, or that energy explosion, keks xdxdxd.
 
@Shadow and Unoriginal

Hakai still has properties of haxs which bypasses durability. Normally raw power wouldn't be able counter that. This would be a benefit of the dragonball character not a negative. Since they can flex and resist that hax. It's pretty simple.

@Creep

I literally explained to you. Beerus and Vegeta both share the same power source (ki). If one character can use their power(ki) to resist something then anyone else at simular power can as well. It's simple logic. Again like I said, that's true, in their verse. Other verses have different rules and different abilities which counter other verses rules, like stands.

Again I already explained this many times, all Toppo did was spurt out his weak baseline hakai energy. This is simple logic, Beerus has this same energy as I show AND hes stronger. Therefore he can replicate that feat. You dont need a statement of Beerus saying he can do exactly what Toppo can do. Its literally all there for you, you're incredulity doesn't change that.

How did they create those shockwaves? Oh yeah their power. You're assuming he is limited a few meters in front of him. Even though theres mutiple factors point otherwise like the energy ball, shockwaves, others hakais which I all linked earlier. Again, use the less amount of assumptions and think hmmmm? Maybe his hakai wouldnt be 5 meters in front of him. Why would Beerus randomly have a short range hakai even though many others dont? ƒñöƒñöƒñöƒñö
 
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