Bayonetta vs the Champion Of Cyrodiil

[Keeweed]

High 4-C keys for both of them and speed is equalized.

Both start within yelling distance of each other.

Insane God and Crusader:

Angel and Demon killing Witch:

Inconclusive:

 

[Metalija]

They both have a ton of hax and resistances so which one has the higher AP?

 

[Stillwinston]

Following, doesn't Cryodil Champ have Prisoner metaphysics tho?

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah he is a Elder Scrolls prisoner.

As for ap.

Bayonetta: I think she stomps 780 tenatons due to fighting Loptr (Aesir)

The Champion of Cyrodiil: Jagar Thar apparently stomps baseline, 5 imperial mages were stated to be able to stomp Tharn single handily, a daedra stomped all of them combined, The Apprentice (The Elder Scrolls) then fought daedra vastly stronger than the first daedra that killed the mages, and finally the Apprentice is weaker than Mankar Camora who the Champion of Cyrodiil directly scales to.

So it's mostly a long list of scaling when it comes to The Champion of Cyrodiil. While Bayonetta actually has a calc.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

With Loptr scaling to Jubileus who after getting beaten to near death was completely unharmed by said 780 tenaton feat

 

[Keeweed]

I was trying to find a way to mention that because I remembered only after I made the post so it would have been pretty clunky to edit so thanks for making it way easier for me.

 

[Metalija]

I think that Champion wins for 2 reasons. 1) He has acausality, and 2) Bayonetta doesn't have resistance to reality warping, magic and status efect inducement which means that Champion can drain her stats very easily. He can drain her intelligence and turn her into vegetable. Or drain her endurence so that he can oneshot her.

 

[Keeweed]

I mean the acausality does not mean much here. He does have resistance to time stop for the same reason he has acausality but acausality itself is meaningless here because none of Bayonetta's power do anything that would be stopped due to acausality.

My autocorrect removes not and n't from words so if my point is contradictory pre edit that's why.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I'm pretty sure the Champion has the AP advantage, according to our pocket reality manipulation page we use inverse square law to calculate the AP of the feat if there's multiple celestial bodies (Such as is the case for Jagar Tharn) and there's a calc that puts such as feat at like 8 foe or somewhere in the foe region.

 

[Metalija]

I mean the acausality does not mean much here. He does have resistance to time stop for the same reason he has acausality but acausality itself is meaningless here because none of Bayonetta's power do anything that would be stopped due to acausality.
My autocorrect removes not and n't from words so if my point is contradictory pre edit that's why.

Fair enough. I still think that Champion wins due to my second reason.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Funnily enough the exact same argument could be made for Bayonetta winning as the Champion doesnt resist any of her hax

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Funnily enough the exact same argument could be made for Bayonetta winning as the Champion doesnt resist any of her hax

 

[Keeweed]

I'm pretty sure the Champion has the AP advantage.

We don't use inverse square law; that's only for explosions which was discussed in a chain of threads about pocket dimensions. Our starry night sky calc was supposed to be recalced a while ago people just seemed to have forgotten about it.

 

[Metalija]

Funnily enough the exact same argument could be made for Bayonetta winning as the Champion doesnt resist any of her hax

He resists everything exept for soul manipulation.

 

[Keeweed]

Funnily enough the exact same argument could be made for Bayonetta winning as the Champion doesnt resist any of her hax

Which ones because the resistances the CoC have are on the wrong key. They're supposed to be in his first key but they were slapped on his second one. I know his second key doesn't gain the resistances because Pelinal doesn't have those resistances despite the only thing the Champion gains in his second key is Pelinal's armor.

@Metalija

I'm pretty sure he should resist or at least reflect it with his magic reflection as he can reflect soul trap and Umbra (which has soul manipulation).

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ah ok, been a while since I saw the threads about pocket realities. The mention of inverse square law should be removed from the page then since it's still mentioned there.

 

[Keeweed]

It really should, but I'll need to get a staff member to do that and we would probably have to redo our starry night sky calc first because that'll effect most our 4-As on this site.

 

[Keeweed]

Also I just wanted to say I forgot to put the starting distance in the op, so I'm adding it now, if it's to late in the match I'll remove it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Unless im missing something he doesnt resist time manip, soul manip, atomic-level matter manip, BFR, madness manip, or empathic manip

 

[Dust_Collector]

Actually I just skimmed though the threads about pocket reality feats and it was actually agreed to keep using inverse square law by the end of the 2nd thread, the whole thing about using inverse square law with multiple celestial bodies was added to the Pocket Reality Manipulation page because of those discussions.

 

[Keeweed]

He resist time stop. I can get the scan if you want me to. He also resist madness manipulation because he can enter the shivering isles, and he resist empathetic manipulation due to resisting spells like calm and fury.

 

[Keeweed]

Then I need to remake some matches now. Also that's relieving information because that would have effected tier 4-A really badly.

 

[Metalija]

he also resists BFR and matter manipulation. The only thing he doesn't resist is soul manipulation.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay but how potent are those resistances? And shouldnt they be on his profile if he has them?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

he also resists BFR and matter manipulation. The only thing he doesn't resist is soul manipulation.

On the level of what Bayo is able to produce?

 

[Keeweed]

Actually I don't think he resist BFR or matter manipulation or at least I can't think of a reason why he would. Soul manipulation he should resist as he can resist Umbra (the sword, not the person) and soul trap.

However I've played Bayonetta 1 and 2 and I don't remember her ever opening with BFR.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Don't prisoner metaphysics play a part here with the Champion doing literally everything they can at the exact same time?

 

[Metalija]

Any sufficently powerfull mage in TES should have resistance to BFR since even the fodder mages can banish people to Oblivion. Also his profile says that he resists matter manip

 

[Keeweed]

Okay but how potent are those resistances? And shouldnt they be on his profile if he has them?

We've made over a dozen CTR threads on Elder Scrolls powers. The revisions are slow as only this site only trust two extremely busy people with any upgrades as of now.

The madness resist is both pretty obvious and really good. Just look up part 1 of the Shivering Isles quest line. The entire realm drives people made, which includes everyone in the multiple villages and main city of the island the dlc takes place on.

Umbra stole the souls of entire armies but I'm not sure if that directly scales to the CoC as Umbra went through a lot before he soul the armies worth of souls. (And the souls he did steal were from people that were already dead).

Bayonetta still doesn't resist many of the Champion of Cyrodiil's hax and he starts off with a passive full body shield and spell reflection as it can be enchantments on his armor and due to being an Elder Scrolls prisoner he starts off with everything at once. Which includes death hax.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So what im getting out of this conversation is that he resists everything she has and is a little over 100x stronger

Someone want to explain why this isnt a stomp?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So what im getting out of this conversation is that he resists everything she has and is a little over 100x stronger

Someone want to explain why this isnt a stomp?

 

[Keeweed]

Any sufficently powerfull mage in TES should have resistance to BFR since even the fodder mages can banish people to Oblivion. Also his profile says that he resists matter manip

I still don't know why he can resist matter manipulation despite asking for a while now, but I guess he can. Bfr only applies to Daedra and the CoC never shows resistance; I remember getting Bfr'd multiple times throughout multiple Elder Scrolls games.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Because the Champion isn't big enough to stomp her ovo. But yeah this isn't sounding like a fair fight.

 

[Metalija]

I heard some time ago that mages can banish people too, but i have never seen it ingame so its very iffy whether he resists BFR or not. Im willing to accept that he can't resist it, but Bayoneta doesn't usualy start with it so i think that Champion has a higher chance of victory.

 

[Keeweed]

So what im getting out of this conversation is that he resists everything she has and is a little over 100x stronger

Someone want to explain why this isnt a stomp?

I doubt that's his ap as he would probably be 4-B if it was that high. Granted I just thought about mehrunes razor so this maybe a stomp if it doesn't need to be aimed because that's nigh instant death hax, though I think he has to aim with it so Bayonetta could just ea sily dodge knowing her agility. (Also the CoC can make a nightmare clone of Bayonetta with all of Bayonetta's powers and equipment but he needs to aim that one so Bayonetta can easily dodge, but it is something he has).

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

So what im getting out of this conversation is that he resists everything she has and is a little over 100x stronger
Someone want to explain why this isnt a stomp?

Funny thing is that they have yet to mention the daedric artifacts.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I heard some time ago that mages can banish people too, but i have never seen it ingame so its very iffy whether he resists BFR or not. Im willing to accept that he can't resist it, but Bayoneta doesn't usualy start with it so i think that Champion has a higher chance of victory.

Yea mages can do BFR, but in the game no one does it.

 

[Keeweed]

Funny thing is that they have yet to mention the daedric artifacts.

No I've been mentioning them. Bayonetta can just easily run circle past half of them and most of the rest just suck. Like the Champion doesn't need magic resist (Savior's Hide) when he already reflects magic and damage passively. Why does he needs the mace of Molag Bal when he can point and cause the same effect + have the spell be a 120 foot wide AoE. Golfbrand literally just sets people on fire. Umbra is ok but Bayonetta can easily dodge it due to her skill with evading attacks.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Funny thing is that they have yet to mention the daedric artifacts.

No I've been mentioning them. Bayonetta can just easily run circle past half of them and most of the rest just suck. Like the Champion doesn't need magic resist (Savior's Hide) when he already reflects magic and damage passively. Why does he needs the mace of Molag Bal when he can point and cause the same effect + have the spell be a 120 foot wide AoE. Golfbrand literally just sets people on fire. Umbra is ok but Bayonetta can easily dodge it due to her skill with evading attacks.

first time i see someone basically saying that daedric weapons from high 1-B characters are useless.

 

[Keeweed]

Them being from a high 1-B means literally nothing. They only have high 1-B potency when those high 1-Bs use them. Other than that they might as well be random objects. Sheogorath literal picks up a random stick and turns it into a daedric artifact, the only reason why it was so important and took so long was because Jyggalag was messing with the Shivering Isles and took the actual Sheogorath out of the picture.

Why have a mace that can drain someone's stamina when you have a spell that can do that + it can straight up paralyze the opponent + has a 120 foot wide AoE vs the mace that you actually have to hit the opponent with. Why have Savior's Hide when the Champion of Cyrodiil already reflects spells, that can instant kill him, passively + reflect damage also passively.

Sure some Daedric Artifacts have unique and powerful effects like the Skull of Corruption but the Skull of Corruption needs to actually hit the opponent and Bayonetta, and most high 4-Cs for that matter, are stupidly hard to hit.