The Champion of the Underground vs the Champion of Public Fighting, Baki Hamna vs Yu

[Mr_Lumbago]

I mean tbf I only really excluded what I disagreed with from the chain, hence its shorter. Which kinda breaks the chain down, because:

If Baki doesn't scale above Gaia, then Doppo doesn't scale above Baki (or his resistance/prediction, ik at that point in the story Doppo is probably much more skilled in other ways), and if Doppo doesn't scale above Baki then Shibukawa's feat of out-predicting Doppo isn't very impressive because then it's just him predicting feints. And since we've established that Seiken Doppo does not have a resistance to analytical prediction via intent erasure, then Doppo doesn't scale above Shibukawa, who now only has a basic feint-prediction feat.

Meaning the only actually impressive thing there is Gaia, who Baki doesn't scale to because he exploited a weakness in Gaia's Prediction, so... yeah lol. I only even kept a chain because I wanted to keep things simple.

That's some ass way of keeping things simple ngl.

1. What are these amps? Could you give a few examples on them, and how much they boost Baki? Yu himself has his own speed amp which continuously gets faster, and he can also get faster through adaptation, so he doesn't lack in that department, but I'm sure Baki has more.

2. How does Aiki work?

3. Does he use Benda Whip a lot?

Demon Back, which is about a 4x amp, Gotaijutsu, which allows him to one shot relative characters, Mach Punch which massively amps speed, Death concentration which amps reaction speed to the point he sees the world in slow mo, just like Yu, and Iirc that's it.

It works through by redirecting chi in order to achieve this effect of attack redirection.

I mean, he does use Benda Whip a lot over the series, but by this point he didn't showcase it yet.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Dude you dont have to post multiple times. Please collect your thoughts into a singular post before posting, thank you. Multi-posting is generally frowned upon.

I'm sorry ;-;

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Bro, you literally didn't send this scan UNTIL NOW. Why are you acting like I was ignoring something you NEVER PROVIDED? Like bro.

Why would this person scale to Gaia or Musashi? Is he someone from Musashi's Era?

I didn't send it, cause it's common knowledge. And that's literally Musashi

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Demon Back, which is about a 4x amp

This is a wincon if he activates it, But he cannot activate at will in this key iirc

, Gotaijutsu, which allows him to one shot relative characters,

Didn't know that but that won't touch Yu

Mach Punch which massively amps speed,

Yu can dodge it

Death concentration which amps reaction speed to the point he sees the world in slow mo, just like Yu, and Iirc that's it.

Nice

I mean, he does use Benda Whip a lot over the series, but by this point he didn't showcase it yet.

Ye

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Baki in this key doesn't have mastery of his demon back and can't activate at will (Correct me if i'm wrong)

Baki instinctive action only works if he stops thinking and doesn't make him dodge attacks faster than him

I mean, he has always been capable of activating it at will as far as I remember, and IR isn't supposed to amp speed.

And if i'm not mistaken (again), Baki doesn't have some of his amps like cockroach dash, 0,5 second attack which are crucial in this match up

He has several amps that do just as good by this point tho

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I mean, he has always been capable of activating it at will as far as I remember, and IR isn't supposed to amp speed.

I really need to rewatch his fight with Jack because i swore he couldn't o-o

He has several amps that do just as good by this point tho

Aside from death concentration and demon back, The rest just ain't doing it

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

This is a wincon if he activates it, But he cannot activate at will in this key iirc

As far as I remember he can activate it without drawbacks.

Didn't know that but that won't touch Yu

How? He doesn't have the speed advantage now.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

As far as I remember he can activate it without drawbacks.

How? He doesn't have the speed advantage now.

Reaction speed

 

[azontr]

That's some ass way of keeping things simple ngl.

I love ass.

Demon Back, which is about a 4x amp, Gotaijutsu, which allows him to one shot relative characters, Mach Punch which massively amps speed, Death concentration which amps reaction speed to the point he sees the world in slow mo, just like Yu, and Iirc that's it.

Demon Back can't be used as via Speed Equalization rules, the slower character cannot use an amp to blitz the faster character (Yu is Hypersonic in Base, Baki is Supersonic in Base), but the rest are fair game. How much do they boost exactly? You don't have to spoonfeed me scans if it's to difficult or time consuming for you, but a general description would be nice.

works through by redirecting chi in order to achieve this effect of attack redirection.

I would say that might be useful but luckily for Yu he has a fine control over his own kinetic energy/flow, so that probably won't work very well.

mean, he does use Benda Whip a lot over the series, but by this point he didn't showcase it yet.

If he knows it but doesn't showcase it I doubt he'd use it here, then.

I didn't send it, cause it's common knowledge. And that's literally Musashi

I don't read Baki Lil bro. Stuff that might be common knowledge to a fan is not knowledge to me. That's why I ask for so many scans, because Baki is not a series I'm knowledgeable on. I'm a Kengan guy lol.

I looked at the image wrong and thought the guy who had the electricity shooting out his brain was the guy doing the reading of Musashi and not the other way around.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I still need someone to tell me how Baki is gonna resist getting his heart blowned out by Yu's punches and his insides

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I just rewatched the fight, Baki seems to do the demon back as last resort for a choke hold move

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

I love ass.

Me too

Demon Back can't be used as via Speed Equalization rules, the slower character cannot use an amp to blitz the faster character (Yu is Hypersonic in Base, Baki is Supersonic in Base), but the rest are fair game. How much do they boost exactly? You don't have to spoonfeed me scans if it's to difficult or time consuming for you, but a general description would be nice.

Demon Back is not a speed blitz worthy amp, it's about 4x, while the speed blitz multiplier is about 7.5x.

I would say that might be useful but luckily for Yu he has a fine control over his own kinetic energy/flow, so that probably won't work very well.

I don't see how that brings a resistance to Aiki at all. Pretty much all Baki characters have a fine control over their own kinetic energy and that doesn't make them any more resistant to Aiki.

If he knows it but doesn't showcase it I doubt he'd use it here, then.

Like, if he gets pushed the most intelligent thing for him would be to use it, but it's not a starter for him, that's for sure.

I don't read Baki Lil bro. Stuff that might be common knowledge to a fan is not knowledge to me. That's why I ask for so many scans, because Baki is not a series I'm knowledgeable on. I'm a Kengan guy lol.

I will forgive the lil bro just cause you like Kengan. And read Baki, it's peak.

I looked at the image wrong and thought the guy who had the electricity shooting out his brain was the guy doing the reading of Musashi and not the other way around.

lmao

 

[azontr]

Demon Back is not a speed blitz worthy amp, it's about 4x, while the speed blitz multiplier is about 7.5x.

You are thinking the one-shot gap. The one shot gap is 7.5 times. There is no defined speed blitz gap on the wiki. A 4x amp would definitely be a blitz, so it's not usable.

don't see how that brings a resistance to Aiki at all. Pretty much all Baki characters have a fine control over their own kinetic energy and that doesn't make them any more resistant to Aiki.

And have any of those supposed characters actually interacted with Aiki? Because being able to control your kinetic energy in front of an ability that manipulates energy to deflect attacks should negate it, but if Aiki has worked on someone with the same ability then do show me.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

I still need someone to tell me how Baki is gonna resist getting his heart blowned out by Yu's punches and his insides

He resists it by redirecting it. And does Yu have any special requirement in order to do his Dura neg? Cause if it's simply technique based then he might pretty well copy it.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

He resists it by redirecting it. And does Yu have any special requirement in order to do his Dura neg?

Monster stance is a perception blitz worthy technique

Cause if it's simply technique based then he might pretty well copy it.

Yu can do it by attacking the body normally iirc

 

[azontr]

He resists it by redirecting it. And does Yu have any special requirement in order to do his Dura neg? Cause if it's simply technique based then he might pretty well copy it.

If Baki tries redirecting it Yu will just change the direction of his attack mid-swing to avoid it.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

You are thinking the one-shot gap. The one shot gap is 7.5 times. There is no defined speed blitz gap on the wiki. A 4x amp would definitely be a blitz, so it's not usable.

Huh, I thought that was the speed blitz gap. Then how do you determine what's a speed blitz and what is not if there is no minimum?

And have any of those supposed characters actually interacted with Aiki? Because being able to control your kinetic energy in front of an ability that manipulates energy to

Yeah, characters like Doppo or Jack were consistently sent flying while fighting Aiki.

Monster stance is a perception blitz worthy technique

Baki's IR should get rid of that, since he is capable of dodging attacks that perception blitz him with it. I would say that he could copy it since it's stance based, but it seems that he can't use blitz worthy amps.

Yu can do it by attacking the body normally iirc

No, that's now what I'm asking. Does his dura neg require any form of physical capability or is it purely technique based? cause depending of that it might be something Baki can copy.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Baki's IR should get rid of that, since he is capable of dodging attacks that perception blitz him with it. I would say that he could copy it since it's stance based, but it seems that he can't use blitz worthy amps.

Then it's moot then

No, that's now what I'm asking. Does his dura neg require any form of physical capability or is it purely technique based? cause depending of that it might be something Baki can copy.

He did train for it, So i guess technique?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also, Iirc the speed blitz gap was 3x the last time i saw someone talk about it, Don't know if they changed it

 

[azontr]

Huh, I thought that was the speed blitz gap. Then how do you determine what's a speed blitz and what is not if there is no minimum?

Usually via common sense. Yu hasn't dealt with a 4x speed disadvantage so he will likely be blitzed.

Yeah, characters like Doppo or Jack were consistently sent flying while fighting Aiki.

Then that's fine, but the point still stands that if Baki tries to redirect his power Yu can just dodge at point-blank and strike from another angle.

No, that's now what I'm asking. Does his dura neg require any form of physical capability or is it purely technique based? cause depending of that it might be something Baki can copy.

Technique based. Thing is though Yu always goes for the kill with his dura neg, so whether or not Baki has been shown to survive direct blows to either his heart or brain would decide whether he'll even have the time to copy Yu's dura neg.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

If Baki tries redirecting it Yu will just change the direction of his attack mid-swing to avoid it.

Did he ever do that before? With aiki Baki can pretty much just touch the glove with his finger and it's enough to send Yu flying.

 

[azontr]

Did he ever do that before?

Yes. Even lesser characters can do that.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Usually via common sense. Yu hasn't dealt with a 4x speed disadvantage so he will likely be blitzed.

Then that's fine, but the point still stands that if Baki tries to redirect his power Yu can just dodge at point-blank and strike from another angle.

Technique based. Thing is though Yu always goes for the kill with his dura neg, so whether or not Baki has been shown to survive direct blows to either his heart or brain would decide whether he'll even have the time to copy Yu's dura neg.

The thing is that it's not something that can be dodged. If an Aiki user touches you, you will either be sent flying or you will feel a weight so heavy it will become pretty much impossible to move. With Aiki, characters like Shibukawa were capable of holding in place guys 6 times bigger than him. I can search for scans if you really need it.

Baki has shown a pain tolerance that allowed him to take attacks that ****** up his organs pretty badly. When fighting with Kureha he was taking attacks that directly damage the internal organs, including a technique that makes the water inside the organs shake violently, causing some heavy damage. So I believe he might be capable of enduring the damage of a hit that targets the internal organs

 

[azontr]

The thing is that it's not something that can be dodged. If an Aiki user touches you, you will either be sent flying or you will feel a weight so heavy it will become pretty much impossible to move. With Aiki, characters like Shibukawa were capable of holding in place guys 6 times bigger than him. I can search for scans if you really need it.

How does this prove it can't be dodged lmao. You just need to not let them touch you.

Baki has shown a pain tolerance that allowed him to take attacks that ****** up his organs pretty badly. When fighting with Kureha he was taking attacks that directly damage the internal organs, including a technique that makes the water inside the organs shake violently, causing some heavy damage. So I believe he might be capable of enduring the damage of a hit that targets the internal organs

Yu specifically aims for lethal targets, though. He's always bloodlusted in this key. His go-to is usually the heart but he could also go for the brain via a headshot. He's not just aiming for any organs.

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Yes. Even lesser characters can do that.

Ok, that first one looks like a regular counter, ngl. The second one is a bit more impressive, but again, it's a simple as putting a finger between himself and the punch, which is something that Baki could very well achieve through his IR.

How does this prove it can't be dodged lmao. You just need to not let them touch you.

I mean it can't be dodged once he touches you, which is something he could very well achieve taking into account there is no reaction speed advantage anymore.

Yu specifically aims for lethal targets, though. He's always bloodlusted in this key. His go-to is usually the heart but he could also go for the brain via a headshot. He's not just aiming for any organs.

He took one of these attacks to the head tho, and was still capable of fighting and one-shotting through goutaijutsu.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

He took one of these attacks to the head tho, and was still capable of fighting and one-shotting through goutaijutsu.

Yu attacks the inside not the outside, Yu one shoted Aaron by hitting his heart and Aaron was gonna one shot Yu by hitting in his head

 

[Robo432343]

Yu didn’t one shot Aaron wtf

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Yu didn’t one shot Aaron wtf

He did though, He one shotted him by hitting his heart and placed him in a comatose state

 

[Robo432343]

He did though, He one shotted him by hitting his heart and placed him in a comatose state

brother Aarons durability page literally says that he no sold an attack from yu

 

[XxZetsuxX]

brother Aarons durability page literally says that he no sold an attack from yu

Not in the heart though

 

[Robo432343]

Not in the heart though

okay?? still doesn't mean yu oneshot him

 

[XxZetsuxX]

okay?? still doesn't mean yu oneshot him

Fine, Would it be better if i say

Can oneshot if he hits in the heart?

 

[Mr_Lumbago]

Yu attacks the inside not the outside, Yu one shoted Aaron by hitting his heart and Aaron was gonna one shot Yu by hitting in his head

Kureha's attack do target the inside too, and Yu didn't one-shot Aaron

Fine, Would it be better if i say

Can oneshot if he hits in the heart?

I don't know, but if Aaron took more than one attack, then he wasn't one-shotted

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Yu wasn't hitting his heart, That's why he was tanking his attacks

The moment Yu did it, Aaron was put in a comatose state

 

[azontr]

Ok, that first one looks like a regular counter, ngl. The second one is a bit more impressive, but again, it's a simple as putting a finger between himself and the punch, which is something that Baki could very well achieve through his IR.

It's not really a "regular" counter because the stance Yu employs there involves going all in with power and speed for his attack, basically betting it all in one movement, yet he's able to change direction mid-movement, which isnt normally possible. So it's a counter but kinda better.

If Baki tries to counter with his IR Yu will just change the direction of the punch again lol, his attacks chain into each other and get stronger and faster the more he curves the angles so the more Baki dodges Yu will just move accordingly.

Also to clarify, Aaron did take multiple organ shots so he was not ONE shotted. These attacks however were not focused at Aaron's heart, hence why he was able to survive them. The moment one hit his heart he was immediately put into a comatose state. If Baki survives one heart or brain punch Yu will just keep delivering them until he goes down.

 

[Robo432343]

Also to clarify, Aaron did take multiple organ shots so he was not ONE shotted.

Thank you.

 

[azontr]

I'm goated.

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Baki himself has some absurd endurance. Not only can he regularly sandbag against people physically equal or stronger than him and end up winning a fight, but can force himself back into consciousness after taking lethal damage with willpower alone.

Him being able to endure internal damage certainly isn't out of the range of possibility.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Baki himself has some absurd endurance. Not only can he regularly sandbag against people physically equal or stronger than him and end up winning a fight, but can force himself back into consciousness after taking lethal damage with willpower alone.

Him being able to endure internal damage certainly isn't out of the range of possibility.

And in the heart? Has he showned something comparable?

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Can't think of any examples of it, naw