Bayonetta 3 Additions (Part 1 of ?)

[Valiant_Abyss]

Warning: Major Spoilers for Bayonetta 3 Below. Proceed at your own risk​

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*FINAL WARNING​

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This CRT will not be attempting to propose any new tierings for the new feats introduced in the game. That will be dealt with at a later point in time or done by someone else. This CRT seeks only to document the new abilities from new info received in this game and establish minimum scaling for new characters so we can create profiles for them.​

Important note here: Despite the ending showing Bayo 2 and Bayo 1 as separate characters, the current Bayonetta profile should remain the same. The events of both games must occur for the other to happen, so Bayonetta must've gone through the events of both of those games. In Bayonetta 2, the events of Bayo 1 are mentioned multiple times, including from herself when talking to Loki.

Arch-Eve Origin Bayonetta should however receive her own separate profile. Given the heavy implication that this is little cereza from the first game. Jeanne should additionally receive a separate profile from her Bayo 1/2 counterpart. This note should be put on the current and new profiles for Bayo and Jeanne.

Bayonetta 3​

This Bayonetta will scale to 2-C for now for fighting evenly alongside Bayo 1/2.

Her sandbox

• Immortality (Type 2) - Can act after ripping her own heart out
• Regen (Low-Mid)
• Fusionism - Bayonetta can fuse with her summons, drastically increasing her power with Demon Masquerade.
  • Bayo 3 keys should get a sub tabber for Demon Masquerade to document the abilities that each provides.
• Limited Mind Manipulation Body Puppetry - Can control every movement of her summons with Demon Slave

Jeanne​

I don't have a sandbox for her just yet, but there's something I'm undecided on. And that would be giving Jeanne the abilities of the weapons in this game (aside from A4O, Garnet Roses, Col. Slade, and Samsa, she'll get those). We give Bayo 1/2 Jeanne the same weapons as bayo if she doesn't have her own version because Jeanne is a known customer of Rodin. However in this game, Bayo doesn't get a majority of her weapons through Rodin, she gets them from the alternate universe witches. I'm not really sure whether or not to give her the abilities of weapons outside of the ones she uses in her stealth missions and maybe G-pillar, so I'll let others decide that.

She'd receive the abilities of demon masquerades and the mind manipulation of demon slave. For her new abilities she'd get stealth mastery and hacking.

Luka​

Luka Sandbox

Gets a new key for his Faerie form.

Viola​

Viola sandbox

I personally have her profile split into 2 keys from before her faerie awakening and post awakening. She'd scale to High 6-A in her pre-awakening key for being able to fight heavy homunculi units which in turn can hold up against summons such as base gamorrah. For her post-awakening key she'd scale to 2-C in base for keeping up with Strider, destroying singularity duplicates, and holding her own against dark eve with a "higher" rating in her faerie form for kicking Striders ass and dealing the killing blow to Dark Eve.

I won't die on this hill though, so if people think its better suited as a single key I'm good with that too.

Singularity​

Singularity sandbox

Singularity will temporarily scale to 2-C via scaling above Bayo 1/2

Homunculi​

Species page for the Homunculi is in the works but should be completed along with a rework of the Angels and Demons pages which are currently severely disorganized and need some working.

Demons​

Most returning demons don't really get anything new. Some don't even have profiles yet, but they'll come soon. All demons will also get High-Mid regen for being able to return after being "taken out." We see them being taken out in both cutscenes and gameplay. In cutscenes gamorrah and malphas return after having their heads cut off and in gameplay multiple bosses are capable of vertically bisecting them. When Phantasmaraneae is eaten by iridescent it even acknowledges its regeneration by asking β1 Bayonetta to 'give it time to get its fire back' before being crushed by iridescent's jaws. There's an argument to be made for a potentially higher regen, but I'll let someone else have a go at arguing for that.

• Gamorrah: energy projection
• Madama Butterfly/Styx: Empathetic manpulation,
• Phantasmaraneae: Adhesive manipulation, natural weaponry, self destruction, and surface scaling
• Baal (doesn't have a profile as of yet but would get some basics): Sound manipulation, air and poison manipulation (manipulates air pressure to create poison rain)
• Malphas: natural weaponry, air manipulation,
• Mictlantecuhtli (also does not have a profile yet): Flight, extrasensory perception, multiple selves type 3
• Labolas: (does not have a profile yet): Ice manipulation, multiple selves type 3, self fusionism and fissionism,
• Kraken: (does not yet have a profile): ink manipulation, digging (can swim in land as if it were water).
• Rodin: Gets a few new things from his new fight. Free Transformation into his demon form, Electricity Manipulation, Black Hole creation, Gravity Manipulation, and magic absorption

Deadly Sin​

Baal, Gomorrah, Madama Butterfly, and Phantasmaraneae will all receive a second key for their deadly sin forms. Sin Gomorrah can match Singularity Chaos and they can all defeat highest ranking homunculi amped by the souls of alternate Bayonettas with the exception of Baal since she faced off against Mictlantecuhtli. There's no reason for them to not scale to each other though, so they would all scale off of singularity chaos.

Sandbox for updated looks for demon profiles: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:Valiant_Abyss/sandbox_3?so=search

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That's all I got for now. I might have more parts to this later but we'll see. I know other people likely have additional things to propose as well.

The sandboxes aren’t 100% cleaned up, but virtually all the info is there.

 

[Comicgyal]

Everything here seems good. The profiles are just a benchmark, and will continue to be upgraded further.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Thoughts on Jeanne giving Jeanne the weapons of the game?

 

[Comicgyal]

I think it’ll be fine. We’ve always assumed that Jeanne had access to the same weapons and abilities as bayo, due to her connection with Rodin. Since we can’t play Jeanne in the story yet, that’s likely the only reason why we don’t have more weapons than her regular guns.

 

[Theglassman12]

If you plan on making a page for the Homunculi army, I recommend using this to help format it better based on specific versions of them.

Not sure how Phantasmaraneae saying it needs its fire back would imply regen as fire is its power source. Wouldn't it be moreso resurrection than regeneration unless there are some statements to imply they regenerated.

As for the Demon slave, that's just body puppetry as she's controlling their body to fight for her, not controlling their minds. The rest I haven't looked in depth so I'll do that when I get some extra time.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Not sure how Phantasmaraneae saying it needs its fire back would imply regen as fire is its power source. Wouldn't it be moreso resurrection than regeneration unless there are some statements to imply they regenerated.

We see it being crushed by Iridescent's bite, "getting its fire back" is just a figurative language for it recovering. The guidebook's description for the event of demons dying says:

Even Infernal Demons can be taken out by relentless attacks. If this happens they can't be summoned again until they recover.

I interpreted the whole process to be regeneration but I wouldn't be opposed to resurrection, so I'll see what others think.

As for the Demon slave, that's just body puppetry as she's controlling their body to fight for her, not controlling their minds. The rest I haven't looked in depth so I'll do that when I get some extra time.

Forgot body puppetry was a thing. That works better.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Thisis fine but not sure why you didnt do the 2-A upgrade first...?

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

If you plan on making a page for the Homunculi army, I recommend using this to help format it better based on specific versions of them.

I do intend on using a similar format to this, but I'll probably just do it alongside reorganizing the infernal demons and angels pages (which I have been avoiding because that job looks like a huge pain in the ass.)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I do intend on using a similar format to this, but I'll probably just do it alongside reorganizing the infernal demons and angels pages (which I have been avoiding because that job looks like a huge pain in the ass.)

NGL, it would be better to give them their own profiles

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Thisis fine but not sure why you didnt do the 2-A upgrade first...?

Y'all can handle that shit, I'm not intent on dealing with that stress right now. Plus it's easier in my view to just get the plain obvious P&A's out of the way with already accepted scaling so I don't have to deal with arguing about tiering while I'm just trying to get these new characters out there.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Y'all can handle that shit, I'm not intent on dealing with that stress right now. Plus it's easier in my view to just get the plain obvious P&A's out of the way with already accepted scaling so I don't have to deal with arguing about tiering while I'm just trying to get these new characters out there.

2-A is already accepted though

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

If it aint on the profiles it aint accepted.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If it aint on the profiles it aint accepted.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/aesir-upgrade.144741/

Then make the CRT and apply it, because its already accepted

The attitude is not appreciated btw

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Thread hasn't seemed to reach a clear conclusion and I'm not the one who proposed it. I'm not the spokesperson for your powerscaling fantasies. Leave your shit out of mine, do you agree with my proposals here or not.

You trying to throw in stuff that I already explicitly stated this CRT would not include is also not appreciated.

 

[Comicgyal]

Thread isn’t supposed to be about 2-A, just base profile scaling

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Thread hasn't seemed to reach a clear conclusion and I'm not the one who proposed it. I'm not the spokesperson for your powerscaling fantasies. Leave your shit out of mine, do you agree with my proposals here or not.

You trying to throw in stuff that I already explicitly stated this CRT would not include is also not appreciated.

You need to learn some manners my guy, i did nothing to you to warrant being spoken to like that

The proposals are fine, albeit being done out of order and making 10x more work in the longrun for those of us doing actual revisions for the verse

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

You need to learn some manners my guy, i did nothing to you to warrant being spoken to like that

The proposals are fine, albeit being done out of order and making 10x more work in the longrun for those of us doing actual revisions for the verse

Sorry to hear that changing a few letters on 5-6 profiles is so demanding. And by "actual revisions" I assume you mean the same recycled lore entry tried for the third time to make the profiles look more appealing.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay Valiant im sorry but is there a reason youre just deciding to be rude right now? Because its very uncalled for.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Maybe I've gotten a little off edge and I apologize on that end, but may I ask you why you enter the thread with your first thing in mind being tiering which I already outlined won't be discussed and then ask me to do something that is neither my responsibility, nor my desire to implement? and then after I push back on your request proceed to indirectly call this revision which I have spent nearly a month on unimportant?

 

[Everything12]

2-A is already accepted though

They why has the changes not went through. Plus that was a Low 1-C upgrade thread, not 2-A.

Also, I was made aware of the fact that the mentions of infinity in the evidence might not bd accurate to the original Japanese text, though 2-A or 2-B wouldn't have changed the Low 1-C arguments so that wasn't worth spend time over there.

Edit: Also, can you tell me where Singularity Balance's Existence Erasure comes from, what what to check something out.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also, I was made aware of the fact that the mentions of infinity in the evidence might not bd accurate to the original Japanese text, though 2-A or 2-B wouldn't have changed the Low 1-C arguments so that wasn't worth spend time over there.

The infinite thing initially comes from the Japanese text though

 

[Everything12]

The infinite thing initially comes from the Japanese text though

Don't want to bog down the thread, but the term used was 無数 which can be interpreted as countless or infinite, it's more likely to mean countless, especially as infinite has another term much more fitting, and so countless is what the Wiki defaults to with this term.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I politely ask everyone to stop discussing the 2-A/Low 1-C upgrade. If you would like to discuss that, please move to that thread itself.

Edit: Also, can you tell me where Singularity Balance's Existence Erasure comes from, what what to check something out.

Spawns clouds of erasure during the fight below you. Clouds of Erasure is their actual name. The in-game guide entry for it says it "breaks down whatever it touches," but other guides use "erased" as a verb in reference to it. The game informer exclusive article that also served as an interview with Kamiya and Miyata (Bayo 3's director) stated it to be erasing things from existence. Don't have the game informer scan on me right now, but I'll look for it when I can.

 

[Everything12]

Should also be deconstruction in addition to Existence Erasure. In general, the proposed changes look alright. The profiles have a few small grammar errors here and there, but nothing I have too major an issue over.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Should also be deconstruction in addition to Existence Erasure. In general, the proposed changes look alright. The profiles have a few small grammar errors here and there, but nothing I have too major an issue over.

Just curious, but where do you stand on regen vs resurrection for demons like glass brought up earlier?

 

[Everything12]

What are the specifics on how Demon summoning functions?

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

The summoner opens a portal from inferno summoning the demon. The demon does whatever and gets recalled by the summoner back to inferno whenever. Demons can 'die' by explosion, vertical bisection, decapitation, crushing, pinned and killed, etc. This forcibly recalls the summon and that specific summon is then disabled for brief moment and cannot be used.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Valiant_Abyss does the original Japanese text for the clouds of erasure mention it as erasure instead of breaking it down? Cause if not that might just be some flowery language for deconstruction. Besides I’m pretty sure you can argue EE based on Singularity erasing worlds.

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I don't have the original on me, but I'll see if I can get it.

 

[Comicgyal]

The original Japanese describes it as deconstruction in game iirc, but platinum calls it existence erasure as well. So both as stated above.

 

[Theglassman12]

Like I said I'm pretty sure Singularity mentions in the final fight he erased the worlds when the bayos appeared miraculously so you could just argue EE from that.

 

[Shmooply]

Thisis fine but not sure why you didnt do the 2-A upgrade first...?

As Confucius once said,
"Man who makes tier upgrade first instead of hax or anything else upgrade for his favorite character, will surely end with him watching his waifu get clapped."

Anywho, this seems fine.

 

[Comicgyal]

We good here?

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Mostly. I think the only thing that still needs resolving is whether or not we should treat demon recovery as resurrection or regen.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Can be both tbh, angels have both already

 

[Theglassman12]

That reminds me, how are we scaling early game Viola? Cause I can’t really think of any good homunculi feats for her to scale to

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

That reminds me, how are we scaling early game Viola? Cause I can’t really think of any good homunculi feats for her to scale to

She's able to harm and take hits from Cumulonimbus.

 

[Theglassman12]

What feats does it have? Cause if it lacks any feats Viola might just be 9-A or 8-C depending on the size of the creature.

 

[OmniMagician]

What feats does it have? Cause if it lacks any feats Viola might just be 9-A or 8-C depending on the size of the creature.

"A gigantic bipedal humanoid Homunculus type.

While of a seemingly excessive size, it is adept at ground-based combat and uses its strength and levitation abilities to move with agility.

It has both the offensive and defensive strength to take on Infernal Demons, as well as a variety of both physical and energy attacks that allow it to attack at any range.

It can also operate autonomously, and if Singularity's control is broken by an enemy attack, it will temporarily shift into an "assault mode", splitting its two arms into four and utilizing increasingly vicious attacks in an attempt to remove any immediate danger to itself."
-Anatomia Complex

 

[WeeklyBattles]

"A gigantic bipedal humanoid Homunculus type.

While of a seemingly excessive size, it is adept at ground-based combat and uses its strength and levitation abilities to move with agility.

It has both the offensive and defensive strength to take on Infernal Demons, as well as a variety of both physical and energy attacks that allow it to attack at any range.

It can also operate autonomously, and if Singularity's control is broken by an enemy attack, it will temporarily shift into an "assault mode", splitting its two arms into four and utilizing increasingly vicious attacks in an attempt to remove any immediate danger to itself."
-Anatomia Complex

That puts it at bare minimum High 6-A