Battle for 3rd 6-C: Mami Tomoe vs Devimon

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Why not? I remember this girl being spammed to hell and back in the past lol

Madoka Magica vs Digimon

Doppel Witch vs Fallen Angel

-SBA

-Speed Equal

-File Island Devimon is used.

FIGHT!!!

Mami Tomoe: 0

Devimo: 0

Inconclusive: 3 (Schnee, Overlord, Marui)

 

[Overlord775]

Can Devimon affect Type 1 Abtracts ?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

He should be able to seeing as Digimon by nature are simply ideas (and higher-dimensional beings) and he can affect the minds and souls of 5-Dimensional ideas.

 

[Overlord775]

Why are they not 5-D then ?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because, just because you are a higher dimensional existence =/= you are that tier.

 

[Overlord775]

i am pretty sure you can't be an higher dimensional being while not being an higher dimensional being

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You actually can.

 

[Schnee_One]

That is false.

Higher dimensional existence and manipulation or Travel can still exist but you don't have to be that tier to be in it.

Reinhard Heydritch can go to any dimension with his Gladesheimr, but he is still 5B

 

[Overlord775]

@Dragon If Digimons come from the 5th dimension, why wouldn't they be 5th dimensional beings ?

@Schnee

5-B Reinhard is not an higher D being and Gladesheimr is considered an Outerversal contruct

 

[Schnee_One]

So? You proved my point just now

Reinhard can exist within a higher dimension due to Gladesheimr, does that make him 1A in base? No.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

They are 5-D beings. They just aren't 5-D in AP.

 

[Overlord775]

@Scheee

Reinahrd uses Gladesheimr as a veheicle, digimojns don't have stuff like that

@Dragon

Doesn't make sense. if you body has 5 dimensions, then you must have AP that matches it, being against it would be like saying that a 3-D being wouldn't have 3-D AP

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No you don't. If your nature is that of a soul. The soul and mind are 5-D (in this case the Digicore), your body is not.

 

[Schnee_One]

So what? Its a vehicle? It teleports Reinhard there, doesn't make him invulnerable to higher dimensional shenanigans as a result.

 

[Overlord775]

@Dragon

Why wouldn't their bodies be as strong as their soul and mind ?

@Schnee

It actually does protect him

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because, it isn't. That's not a requirement.

 

[Overlord775]

If everything is Data, why would body data have a different nature than soul and mind data ?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because, it's never been stated or shown or stated or implied as such.

 

[Overlord775]

We threat digimons as able to hit mind and soul because the two are considered just Data tho

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Okay? This has nothing to do with them being higher dimensional?

 

[Overlord775]

Data is Data, so no difference should exist between body and soul, as it's all just Data.

so also they should be High 2-A because they can destroy 5-D data with just physical blows.

So, tell me, what piece of lore goes against it ?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

This doesn't make them High 2-A once again. If you want to make a thread upgrade them to High 2-A go ahead. Nothing contradicts it, but we also noted that being HD doesn't make you that tier.

This is proof. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Mister_Mxyzptlk_(CW)

Ex is better at explaining this than I am (and he blatantly noted that they don't scale in AP)

 

[Overlord775]

That guy is not High 2-A because we have only statements of him being 5-D, not actual proof of it

Also again, explain me why soul and mind should be threated as 5-D IF they are made of the same data as digimon's bodies

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So this is what Ex had to say in terms of this situation when this upgrade was made. (He's better with the data shit than I am)

"As in Digimon exists the mechanics of equivalence of existence, due to all processes of Digital Shift, Realise, or even existences in distortions, it is very simple not to put this in the profiles (At least not as a base information) because it is not something notorious. Just like not every demon in SMT is Immeasurable because of the nature of the demons, since a big part of them aren't used in that way (Unless in lore) until the big bosses."

 

[Overlord775]

So, why is Soul and Mind hax considered 5-D ?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Because, unlike their bodies, their minds and souls stay 5-D, just that their physical bodies are not by nature. Their physical bodies aren't 5-D.

 

[Overlord775]

So, you are saying that some data gets degraded, but other doesn't for some reason ?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

No as the process of ReArise only affects the physical body they create.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I have notified Ex as he is more knowledgeable on this than i am. He can explain much better.

 

[Executor_N0]

Okay, Devimon would not be able to affect Type 1 Abstracts. Devimon is a "soul reduced to nothing" and in general Souls though they exist above the physical world, are still unable to directly affect Forms/Ideas, these Conceptual Entity are to the Digimon/Souls what they are to Humans from the physical world. Just look at the Choosen Children vs Apocalymon, they are able to affect the "physical form" of Apocalymon, but are unable to affect the true conceptual form.

About the Digimon and Souls, understand that Digimon are not souls themselves, they are metaphysical beings who exist on a higher plane according to emanationism. It only happens that in some interpretations it is said that the physical is the Body and the metaphysical is the Soul, so the body in a world is the soul in a lower world. Digimon are "physical" beings in their own reality, but this reality is "metaphysical" when compared to humans.

Digimon bodies exists at the same level as their "souls," all composed of the same material, Data. After all, it would make no sense to protect a "5D" material using a "3D" one. The reason Digimon is not "High 2-A" because they are 5D is because according to the rules involving higher dimensions, at least from what I've seen in some threads, being a "5D" only guarantees "Higher Dimensional Existence", to be High 2-A the character needs to be able to affect a significant part of a whole "High 2-A structure".

Basically this means that just because someone is N + 1D (With N>= 3) he will not be considered Tier 2 immediately even though the nature of his world is explained to be superior to three-dimensional existence, even if he, for example, was able to destroy a four dimensional tree. So to be considered Tier 2 or higher, something compared to a universe/multiverse from their perspective needs to be destroyed.

That's why Digimon like Clockmon are High 2-A, for being able to destroy the Digital World Network spacetime, he is able to destroy a entire fifth-dimensional spacetime continuum.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So Digimon are basically unable to harm other ideas. I guess I am lost, I thought Digimon in general were ideas, but were referenced as "Souls". Or did I confuse it with Apocalymon only?

 

[Overlord775]

LOL

 

[Schnee_One]

I mean if you wanted a match you can restrict her type 1 Abstract Existence since it's only a possibly

That kinda completely kicks Devimon out of 3rd 6C though.

 

[Overlord775]

With Type 1 restricted it's a stomp for Devimon, as Mami has no way to affect Nonexistant beings

 

[Executor_N0]

So Digimon are basically unable to harm other ideas. I guess I am lost, I thought Digimon in general were ideas, but were referenced as "Souls". Or did I confuse it with Apocalymon only?

As I said before, there is a difference between Particular and Universal. One particular is the essence of one thing, while the Universal is the essence of all things in relation to some characteristic. Souls are the "particular essence" of a living being while Concepts are the "universal essence" of a characteristic shared by all the things it has.

Digimon are souls, individual essence, while Concepts are universal essences. There are some Digimon that are actually also universal essences, like Apocalymon.

And I believe there is no kind of skill required to affect a Type 2 or 3 abstract, they are still "physical beings", in a sense, but they have a lot of abilities from their status as "embodiment of something".

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Restricting Mami's Type 1 kinda ruins the point of this match. So It'll be closed. I'll go for Number 4 instead.

 

[Schnee_One]

I mean I guess that's Incon?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

You mean this or number 4?

 

[Schnee_One]

This cause Mami can't affect non existence

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Ah, So she can't hit him, but Devimon can't harm her? I guess it's incon if that's the case.