BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[KingTempest]

So reading his new posts the arguments are roughly.

1. I don’t give a **** about the lore statements in Bleach only what I can physically see.

2. I don’t like your interpretation.

3. You can’t upgrade from statements alone even though the statement page says you can.

I think what @ProfessorKukui4Life meant was

1. You can't use novel statements to counter manga, especially when we can see what's happening in the manga where we have to assume what's happening in the novel.

2. There are multiple interpretations, and yours (whoever he's countering) isn't the most justified.

3. The person who gave the statement wasn't that reliable.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I think what @ProfessorKukui4Life meant was

1. You can't use novel statements to counter manga, especially when we can see what's happening in the manga where we have to assume what's happening in the novel.

2. There are multiple interpretations, and yours (whoever he's countering) isn't the most justified.

3. The person who gave the statement wasn't that reliable.

1. so like he said "disregard lore"

2. his arguments is that he does not like it not a counter for his argument

3. can u provide prof he is not reliable?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. This is irrelevant since most of the rating is from the manga.
2. Based off?
3. Why isn’t he reliable?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

So reading his new posts the arguments are roughly.

1. I don’t give a **** about the lore statements in Bleach only what I can physically see.

2. I don’t like your interpretation.

3. You can’t upgrade from statements alone even though the statement page says you can.

I don’t think Number 2 is very fair here, isn’t his interpretation worth just as much consideration as anyone elses?

I mean maybe if you try to see his point of view and try to understand his interpretation, you’ll see why he disagrees with the upgrades

I mean it’s fair to give both sides of the argument a look before making a judgement right?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

his literal arguments for ganju not being a reliable source is spelled right on the OP

"Why in the world are we taking the words of someone who, last I checked, is an ordinary fodder in his own verse as literal for this upgrade?"

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I don’t think Number 2 is very fair here, isn’t his interpretation worth just as much consideration as anyone elses?

I mean maybe if you try to see his point of view and try to understand his interpretation, you’ll see why he disagrees with the upgrades

I mean it’s fair to give both sides of the argument a look before making a judgement right?

I’m literally doing this. I’m not exactly sure what you want me to respond with here? I can say most knowledgeable people here who do all the work on the verse agree with my interpretation. But will it actually matter?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I don’t think Number 2 is very fair here, isn’t his interpretation worth just as much consideration as anyone elses?

I mean maybe if you try to see his point of view and try to understand his interpretation, you’ll see why he disagrees with the upgrades

I mean it’s fair to give both sides of the argument a look before making a judgement right?

if he used lore sure

and not lie, he posted a scan from the novels that on the next 2 pages got called out as a lie

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I’m literally doing this. I’m not exactly sure what you want me to respond with here?

want to make a counter argument so that i post it for u?

 

[KingTempest]

1. so like he said "disregard lore"

2. his arguments is that he does not like it not a counter for his argument

3. can u provide prof he is not reliable?

1. This is irrelevant since most of the rating is from the manga.
2. Based off?
3. Why isn’t he reliable?

his literal arguments for ganju not being a reliable source is spelled right on the OP

"Why in the world are we taking the words of someone who, last I checked, is an ordinary fodder in his own verse as literal for this upgrade?"

1. He talks about how the novel states the destruction is immediate while the manga shows otherwise. You're disregarding the original source.

2. Again, there are multiple interpretations, and yours isn't #1. Sigurd, wdym "based off"?

3. You failed to notice where he referred to another topic, how Ganju wasn't talking about Yhwach.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. How did it show otherwise? Did we not see immediate effects? Is a galaxy suppose to explode? I didn’t know there was steps to the collapse of a fictional universe.

2. What makes him not reliable? Point it out to me. All I see is he’s fodder.

3. What in the world? Let’s assume he’s talking about the Soul King here. You do know Yhwach absorbed him and all his power entirely yes? Yhwach is the new Soul King and he has all his powers.

 

[KingTempest]

1. How did it show otherwise? Did we not see immediate effects?

2. What makes him not reliable? Point it out to me. All I see is he’s fodder.

3. What in the world? Let’s assume he’s talking about the Soul King here. You do know Yhwach absorbed him and all his power entirely yes? Yhwach is the new Soul King and he has all his powers.

1. Kukui referred to how long it took for the universe to be destroyed, which took forever. If it was immediate, the universe would've been destroyed the moment Reio died.

2.

This isn't as if Ganju is well experienced into the subject of the worlds crumbling as a result of the Soul Kings death. We've heard statements about the destruction of the worlds from several people much more experienced and credible into the topic than Ganju. And not once do we get another statement from them about the Garganta being effected, aside from Ganju jumping to those conclusions. This is pretty akin to an ordinary person thinking someone far stronger than they are could do things they cant actually do. AKA, this looks more like overhyping being done

3. Did you read his argument?
He said the world crumbled when the Soul King was killed. He's not talking about power, he's talking about universe stability.

Sigurd, I'm beginning to think you just nitpicked whatever from AKM's OP and Kukui's posts to argue about. They both make very good points, but you and almost everyone else here is bashing the same 3 points over and over and over again.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Like dude is using the eyeball monsters as some sort of antifeat involving his power. According to him the Soul King is below even Ikkaku who can kill the creatures.

 

[KingTempest]

Like dude is using the eyeball monsters as some sort of antifeat involving his power. According to him the Soul King is below even Ikkaku who can kill the creatures.

This is exactly what I meant by

Sigurd, I'm beginning to think you just nitpicked whatever from AKM's OP and Kukui's posts to argue about. They both make very good points, but you and almost everyone else here is bashing the same 3 points over and over and over again.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

1. Kukui referred to how long it took for the universe to be destroyed, which took forever. If it was immediate, the universe would've been destroyed the moment Reio died.

2.


3. Did you read his argument?
He said the world crumbled when the Soul King was killed. He's not talking about power, he's talking about universe stability.

Sigurd, I'm beginning to think you just nitpicked whatever from AKM's OP and Kukui's posts to argue about. They both make very good points, but you and almost everyone else here is bashing the same 3 points over and over and over again.

the CTR is from Kukiu not AKM tbh

 

[KingTempest]

the CTR is from Kukiu not AKM tbh

Probably is ngl, seems like his writing. Same difference though.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

oh, i also notice how he is saying that YH "died" it was explained to him he did not really die and the novels also stated it, if YH had been truly killed they would have taken ichigo

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

also seems like no one is gonna address how he put a scan that was proven to be a lie already throwing shade on his (obvious) purpose/intent

 

[Torsin]

When have we ever scaled the war potentials to yhwach? Wtf is this? Who is making all these new scaling chains? This point requires soma giga brain thinking especially when we see Kenpachi (one of the war potentials) get destroyed in the beginning of the arc.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

1. Kukui referred to how long it took for the universe to be destroyed, which took forever. If it was immediate, the universe would've been destroyed the moment Reio died.

The entire seen lasted about a couple seconds.

3. Did you read his argument?
He said the world crumbled when the Soul King was killed. He's not talking about power, he's talking about universe stability.

I read it several times over. I don’t get what you mean here.

Sigurd, I'm beginning to think you just nitpicked whatever from AKM's OP and Kukui's posts to argue about. They both make very good points, but you and almost everyone else here is bashing the same 3 points over and over and over again.

Yeah I picked out very bad and very obvious points. Just because you think the points are good doesn’t mean it’s actually good. I can post a lot of random things as well that look good. Doesn’t actually mean it is.

Maybe if you really read the OP you’ll see it’s riddled in fallacies and multiple lies assuming you’ve read all of the source material of course.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is exactly what I meant by

Are you suggesting I shouldn’t point out horrible points? Do you agree with the point regarding the creatures as evidence he isn’t that powerful? If you agree with it then he must be below town level.

 

[KingTempest]

The entire seen lasted about a couple seconds.

Reason 4: The Soul King Stabilizing The Cosmology Isn't 3-A or Low 2-C​

Outlined in our new standards for stabilization feats, one of the requirements is to prove that a character's stabilization is equal to the destructive output released by the structure's destruction. So if for example, for stabilization to be 3-A or Low 2-C, the character's sustenance would need to be able to rival the destructive output of a universe being completely destroyed instantly, or immediately. And that's not the case here for Bleach.

The destruction of the worlds brought forth by the Soul Kings death isn’t instant or immediate in any way, shape or form. The best we see and get from the crumbling of the worlds is a dimensional quake trembling through the worlds, and not all of the worlds are even effected the same way. The Soul society violently shakes, Hueco Mundo shakes to a lesser extent, and the world of the living gets a mild long lasting quake where nothing gets destroyed at all.

This did not last a couple of seconds. It took a long ass time. An entire news report could go through on WOTL and nothing bad happened to the earth

I read it several times over. I don’t get what you mean here.

You

What in the world? Let’s assume he’s talking about the Soul King here. You do know Yhwach absorbed him and all his power entirely yes? Yhwach is the new Soul King and he has all his powers.

This has nothing to do with the statement.
The statement said if the soul king dies, all the bs falls apart including the garganta. This has nothing to do with power

Yeah I picked out very bad and very obvious points. Just because you think the points are good doesn’t mean it’s actually good. I can post a lot of random things as well that look good. Doesn’t actually mean it is.

You picked out vague points and targeted those for days, the same few points over and over and over.

Maybe if you really read the OP you’ll see it’s riddled in fallacies and multiple lies assuming you’ve read all of the source material of course.

Only lie I see in the OP is the statement in the CFYOW novel, which doesn't carry the whole damn argument.

Are you suggesting I shouldn’t point out horrible points?

I'm saying you should do something other than snap on the same 3 points every day.

Do you agree with the point regarding the creatures as evidence he isn’t that powerful? If you agree with it then he must be below town level.

I honestly don't need to answer this, but I will for ***** and giggles.
The eyeball creatures are fodder.
If Kazui can kill one, that says a lot.

 

[KingTempest]

oh, i also notice how he is saying that YH "died" it was explained to him he did not really die and the novels also stated it, if YH had been truly killed they would have taken ichigo

Yhwach died when Ichigo cut him the first time, where he said he used the almighty to rewrite it. Universe didn't crumble there.

also seems like no one is gonna address how he put a scan that was proven to be a lie already throwing shade on his (obvious) purpose/intent

I wouldn't assume intent, but we don't need to address it because we already know it's flawed.
Go to page 28 of this thread and see it if you want to.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

nothing bad happened to the earth

This has nothing to do with the statement.
The statement said if the soul king dies, all the bs falls apart including the garganta. This has nothing to do with power

Only lie I see in the OP is the statement in the CFYOW novel, which doesn't carry the whole damn argument.

The eyeball creatures are fodder.

If Kazui can kill one, that says a lot.

1. yes lest ignore the statement of how something of that magnitude had never happened on earth before (biggest earthquake recorded being 9.4–9.6 M)

2. exept how he hold everything and how YH gained the power and could now destroy everything

3. no, but it does show he uses false arguments proven to be a lie to try and get what he wants

4. eye ball monsters /=/ YH energy

5. it truly says a lot about kazui and his power/potential u right

 

[Zezu1995]

honestly can we just leave them at large planet and call it a day? the back and forth been going on for months

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

honestly can we just leave them at large planet and call it a day? the back and forth been going on for months

funny u think they will do that, they want them at tier 6

 

[KingTempest]

1. yes lest ignore the statement of how something of that magnitude had never happened on earth before

"So small"
"It's been going on forever"
What magnitude? Magnitude 0.01?

2. exept how he hold everything and how YH gained the power and could now destroy everything

All Ganju said was "if we lose, bye bye Garganta". Idk where you got hold everything from, unless it's the other statement.

3. no, but it does show he uses false arguments proven to be a lie to try and get what he wants

He used one false argument and now his whole point is moot?
"To try and get what he wants" isn't that the point of a CRT? To propose "what you want"?

4. eye ball monsters /=/ YH energy

"The remnant of Yhwach's power"

Yhwach's power = Yhwach's Energy.

5. it truly says a lot about kazui and his power/potential u right

I'll ignore this.

 

[Torsin]

It says the final REMNANT of Yhwachs energy/power has vanished.
Remnant definition : a part or quantity that is left after the greater part has been used, removed, or destroyed.

So this in no ways an anti feat when the plot itself says that this is the final remains of his reiatsu and is no where near its prime.

 

[Tsubasa16]

When have we ever scaled the war potentials to yhwach? Wtf is this? Who is makimg all these new scaling chains? This point requires soma giga brain thinking especially when we see Kenpachi (one of the war potentials) get destroyed in the beginning of the arc.

By what i read of that part, he's essentially trying to pull a "If this is accepted literally 99% of the characters will scale to this" strawman.

 

[KingTempest]

It says the final REMNANT of Yhwachs energy/power has vanished.
Remnant definition : a part or quantity that is left after the greater part has been used, removed, or destroyed.

That has nothing to do with my argument.
He said eyeball ≠ Yhwach's power.
They say Eyeball = small part of Yhwach's power.

Is it not still Yhwach's power?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

"So small"
"It's been going on forever"
What magnitude? Magnitude 0.01?

All Ganju said was "if we lose, bye bye Garganta". Idk where you got hold everything from, unless it's the other statement.

He used one false argument and now his whole point is moot?

"To try and get what he wants" isn't that the point of a CRT? To propose "what you want"?

"The remnant of Yhwach's power"

Yhwach's power = Yhwach's Energy.

I'll ignore this.

1. just gonna go ahead an assume u have not read the novels, on them they state that an earthquake bigger than anything seen in before took place

2. Everything soul king made is supported by him and he also has the power to destroy all that he created (which includes garganta)

3. no, just shows he is willing to lie

4. oh? can we make CTR and use lies then to upgrade/downgrade a verse? should have told me

5. Remnant definition : a part or quantity that is left after the greater part has been used, removed, or destroyed.

5.

That has nothing to do with my argument.
He said eyeball ≠ Yhwach's power.
They say Eyeball = small part of Yhwach's power.

Is it not still Yhwach's power?

no, that was soul king, as stated on the very page

"WHAT THE HELL IS THIS??!!"

jugram: "calm down, this is the torrent of the soul kings power. The soul kings is at last free of the seals which were bound to him by shinigami"

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This did not last a couple of seconds. It took a long ass time. An entire news report could go through on WOTL and nothing bad happened to the earth

You do realize this duration of the world ending event lasted the duration of Mimihagi going to the Soul King palace correct? This is a couple seconds. Where are you getting incredibly long time from this? Is there some sort of time cap for the collapse of the universe I’m not aware of?

You

This has nothing to do with the statement.
The statement said if the soul king dies, all the bs falls apart including the garganta. This has nothing to do with power

What do you think is keeping it all together? Hopefully not the imaginary cycle of reincarnation. It’s his power.

You picked out vague points and targeted those for days, the same few points over and over and over.

I can target whatever part of the argument I desire.

Only lie I see in the OP is the statement in the CFYOW novel, which doesn't carry the whole damn argument.

That’s because you don’t know all the information is all.

I'm saying you should do something other than snap on the same 3 points every day.

Again I can complain about anything I want.

I honestly don't need to answer this, but I will for ***** and giggles.
The eyeball creatures are fodder.
If Kazui can kill one, that says a lot.

Another lie and blatant misinformation of the scene. Now to correct you this scene regarding Yhwach’s ”final rmnants” being destroyed by Kazui isn’t his full power. It’s a random ass piece of him that isn’t sealed up in the palace where his body is being used to keep the world together. How does one get tier 2 from this like at all?

 

[Zezu1995]

funny u think they will do that, they want them at tier 6

thats easily a lowball.. i feel the lore of bleach has us going in circles and some words dont sit well with us... looking at SS,earth,HM and hell all planet sized as the novel stated they sit at large planet+ and no higher without much trouble

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Kukui is literally arguing in his most recent post that scaling the Almighty to Yhwach’s AP somehow leads to the entire verse being tier 2 via his scaling. How in the world are people agreeing with some of these things.

How the hell did he come to this conclusion when this scaling has been a thing for years and he’s the 1st person to ever suggest such a ridiculous thing.

 

[KingTempest]

1. just gonna go ahead an assume u have not read the novels, on them they state that an earthquake bigger than anything seen in before took place

I'm arguing present day when Reio dies and there's an earthquake that didn't shake anything

2. Everything soul king made is supported by him and he also has the power to destroy all that he created (which includes garganta)

I never argued for or against that, I don't want to, don't have to, don't need to.

3. no, just shows he is willing to lie

Maybe he just, idk, forgot that they called it a lie later

4. oh? can we make CTR and use lies then to upgrade/downgrade a verse? should have told me

Go ahead.

5. Remnant definition : a part or quantity that is left after the greater part has been used, removed, or destroyed.

You watch Naruto?
Naruto got the remnant of a bunch of energy demon's powers, they didn't get any weaker.

no, that was soul king, as stated on the very page

Where does it say soul king.

KuKuI's A lIaR hE iS sTuPiD. Wasn't even a lie, but if it does count as a lie, then you lied about this saying Soul King, so you're in the same boat.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Kukui is literally arguing in his most recent post that scaling the Almighty to Yhwach’s AP somehow leads to the entire verse being tier 2 via his scaling. How in the world are people agreeing with some of these things.

1. they dont know bleach and the novels (as it seems to be the case already)
2. dont care and will just agree
3. want it downgraded cus they dont like it

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

KuKuI's A lIaR hE iS sTuPiD. Wasn't even a lie, but if it does count as a lie, then you lied about this saying Soul King, so you're in the same boat.

https://********.org/chapter/942764/11

go on.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Guys, this isn't the CRT.

 

[KingTempest]

You do realize this duration of the world ending event lasted the duration of Mimihagi going to the Soul King palace correct? This is a couple seconds. Where are you getting incredibly long time from this? Is there some sort of time cap for the collapse of the universe I’m not aware of?

So people had full conversations and watched mini baby earthquakes happen in the span of Mimihagi going to Reio's palace.
Why wasn't at least tier 4 destruction happening if it was still that fast.

What do you think is keeping it all together? Hopefully not the imaginary cycle of reincarnation. It’s his power.

Based on?
Could be his life force.

I can target whatever part of the argument I desire.
That’s because you don’t know all the information is all.
Again I can complain about anything I want.

Ok

Another lie and blatant misinformation of the scene. Now to correct you this scene regarding Yhwach’s ”final rmnants” being destroyed by Kazui isn’t his full power. It’s a random ass piece of him that isn’t sealed up in the palace where his body is being used to keep the world together. How does one get tier 2 from this like at all?

Remnant ≠ weaker

 

[KingTempest]

Guys, this isn't the CRT.

I'm not staff or an approved member, plus I'm not interested in typing walls of text to the opposition (if that sounded disrespectful Warren, I apologize). I'm just here to speak the little that I have to say.

https://********.org/chapter/942764/11

go on.

Damn, so it's not Yhwach's power anymore huh?

You do know Yhwach absorbed him and all his power entirely yes? Yhwach is the new Soul King and he has all his powers.

Get your friend, he's the one that said it.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Damn, so it's not Yhwach's power anymore huh?

That has nothing to do with my argument.
He said eyeball ≠ Yhwach's power.
They say Eyeball = small part of Yhwach's power.

Is it not still Yhwach's power?

u said the eyeballs were YH power and what did i say??

no, that was soul king, as stated on the very page

"WHAT THE HELL IS THIS??!!"

jugram: "calm down, this is the torrent of the soul kings power. The soul kings is at last free of the seals which were bound to him by shinigami"

nowhere did i say that the eye monsters where YH but the soul king

so if u gonna call me a liar at least have better arguments for it