BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[Damage3245]

I'll post the link here when I post the 2nd part to the Speed CRT. There'll be a few topics to cover, but I'll try to keep things more steamlined than the mess of the previous thread.

 

[Purgy]

What would we consider a "strong Arrancar"? I imagine people like CFYOW Grimmjow, CFYOW Nel, CFYOW Harribel, Ulquiorra, Baraggan and Starrk would be considered as such, but not certain.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

What would we consider a "strong Arrancar"? I imagine people like CFYOW Grimmjow, CFYOW Nel, CFYOW Harribel, Ulquiorra, Baraggan and Starrk would be considered as such, but not certain.

I would imagine arancars/espada

I mean, even arroniero was composed of 33K hollows

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The statement was about Aizen’s arrancars not just Espada. But the upper tier would be Espada like Grimmjow.

 

[Purgy]

All Espada? I guess it could work, given that Aaroniero was comprised of 33k like TOAAPRESENCE1 said, so he would be on the extreme low end as he's the weakest Espada.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Aaroniero was a Gillian remember. That’s pretty low tier for hollows.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Aaroniero was a Gillian remember. That’s pretty low tier for hollows.

Right

So Gillian's could be in the tens of thousands like the novel says

 

[Warren_Valion]

Like I mentioned earlier, this is kinda perfect, it goes with my Sōkyoku scaling pretty well.

 

[Purgy]

Like I mentioned earlier, this is kinda perfect, it goes with my Sōkyoku scaling pretty well.

What do you mean?

 

[Warren_Valion]

What do you mean?

Months ago, when you were talking about upgrading the soul resistance of the characters, I thought back to how the Sōkyoku is stated to have the power of 1 million zanpakuto which is said to increase by dozens of times when attacking, and how Ichigo tanked an attack from it. Although, at the time, I thought that maybe the number was a little too extreme to be throwing out and saying that it's their level of soul resistance.

Now we have confirmation that significantly more powerful characters are constructed of hundreds of millions of souls, while significantly weaker characters are complied of tens of thousands of souls.

So it makes my idea of scaling to the Sōkyoku seem more consistent than I thought initially, so it's kinda perfect.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Remember that someone of that level must have millions of souls or even more

So killing him is like killing millions or more at the same time

Also Mayuri had to kill some couple thousand souls or something to correct the balance in the TYBW, so imagine hundreds of millions of souls offsetting at the same time.

 

[Purgy]

Would it be fair to say that a Hollow which has evolved further than another Hollow would also typically have consumed more souls than that Hollow? They evolve by continuously consuming souls after all, so it stands to reason that a Vasto Lorde would have consumed more souls than a Gillian, typically at least.

Obviously there can be exceptions to this.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Would it be fair to say that a Hollow which has evolved further than another Hollow would also typically have consumed more souls than that Hollow? They evolve by continuously consuming souls after all, so it stands to reason that a Vasto Lorde would have consumed more souls than a Gillian, typically at least.

Obviously there can be exceptions to this.

Yes, we have the order

Hollows <<<<gillians<<<<<adjucas <<<<arrancar

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Hundreds of millions of souls? Damn, sounds like my soul potency scaling not the atomic soul one but people disagreed because big numbers.

 

[Purgy]

Hundreds of millions of souls? Damn, sounds like my soul potency scaling not the atomic soul one but people disagreed because big numbers.

Soul potency scaling for Bleach? Or something else?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

For Bleach, yeah. Gonna have to go find the last thread for that stuff.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Grimmjow is the one with the feat, right?

Does it only apply to CFYOW Grimmy or does it scale to Espada Grimmy as well?

What's the general scaling chain going to be?

 

[Purgy]

What feat?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Feat is a terrible way of saying it - I meant with the statement.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

He’s talking bout the arrancars in general.

 

[Purgy]

“The strong Arrancars in Hueco Mundo are the aggregations of several tens of thousands—or hundreds of millions—of konpaku. Whether it’s the result of them all mixing together, or the result of one strong individual overtaking the will of the others, the resulting Arrancars have their own beliefs. That’s exactly why, if we can understand their way of thinking…even just a tiny fraction of it, if there’s a part of them that agrees with us, negotiations are possible.”

This statement?

I imagine it would apply to most if not all of the Espada, not just Grimmjow, though the hard part is determining the value that should be used for each of them since much like the Bankai multiplier, we're given a range instead of an exact number.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Feat is a terrible way of saying it - I meant with the statement.

The statement is in general

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

This statement?

I imagine it would apply to most if not all of the Espada, not just Grimmjow, though the hard part is determining the value that should be used for each of them since much like the Bankai multiplier, we're given a range instead of an exact number.

I would say all espada are on the millions

With aroniero being an exception fue to how his powers work

 

[Zoro21043]

aaronierros could be higher as he said he consumed 30k hollows not souls and we know hollows are constantly eating souls or each other
tho i dont think every espada should be given a value in millions without much support
those that are confirmed to be vaste lorde i think are safe to be in millions
adjucas in hundreds of thousands (as gillians are made from 10s of thousands and they devour each other to evolve to adjucas)
and gillians in 10s of thousands

 

[Zoro21043]

here ulquiorra states ichigo's getsuga tenshou is similar to an arrancars cero oscuras, and we know that a getsuga tenshou is a technique that amps power

here we see grimmjow casually catching ichigos sword with one hand
but when ichigo fires a getsuga grimmjow puts more effort into blocking it but fails and gets heavily wounded and leaves a permanent scar, supporting the idea that it amplifies ichigos powers

here ulquiorra also confirms it by saying "thats when you are at your most lethal" and going as far as calling it "your ultimate technique"
now keep in mind the word technique

after ulquiorra says his getsuga is similar to a arrancars cero ichigo says not to compare it to something like that
in a manner that seems like he is looking down on the ceros and thinks his getsuga is superior a counter argument could be that ulquiorra was talking about their color however the way ichigo spoke disagrees with this and i already proved how it amps the users power and

when ulquiorra talks about appearance he only refers to ichigos physical looks "your appearance"
and he was talking about power when he talked about the getsuga being similar to the cero oscuras as here right after ulquiorra showed cero oscuras he trash talks ichigo and says no matter how similar his techniques are the difference between them is like heaven and hell and that its understandable for soul reapers to copy hollows for power further backing up the fact that he was talking about power

another counter argument could be that ichigo was in denial that he was using a hollow technique thus saying dont compare it to a cero
however in the first encounter with grimmjow he had acknowledged the fact that its his hollows technique so that cant be the case plus he was already using his hollow mask in the fight with ulquiorra
something else i want to bring up is that ichigo had already seen the gran rey cero and we know that from ulquiorras statement espada 1-4 can accidentally destroy las noches by just transforming, while other espadas can perform the same feat accidentally with a gran rey cero but cant with resurrection meaning gran rey cero > resurrection
so based on that and ichigos statement in terms of multipliers these would compare like this
resurrection(x5 multiplier as accepted)<gran rey cero<cero oscuras
and as cero oscuras increases the power by an order of magnitude that would be x10 so ichigos getsuga tensho should be at least x5 (superior to a gran rey cero which is above a resurrection thats at least x5) if not x10 as ulquiorra says they are similar
what are your thoughts ?

should i post a crt on this?

 

[senseikeleon]

Well most of the espada are Vasto lorde and the only ones confirmed not to be Vasto lorde are Aaroniero and Szayelaporro as far as I recall so the rest of the espada should be in millions

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Szay is number 0 so I would imagine he would qualify unless I am mistaken somewhere

 

[Galvino]

Weren't only rank 4 and up vasto lorde?

 

[Purgy]

Cien was a Vasto Lorde, Szayelaporro as in Espada #8 was an Adjuchas.

Weren't only rank 4 and up vasto lorde?

It was stated most of the Espada were Vasto Lorde, so at least 6

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Weren't only rank 4 and up vasto lorde?

Only exceptions where aroniero and szyel

 

[Zoro21043]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/bleach-ichigos-getsuga-tensho.109689/

 

[Damage3245]

I apologize to those who are interested in moving on with the speed revisions (and moving onto other subjects). I've been trying to wrap my head around all of the different scaling chains currently in existence for the verse in order to be comprehensive about proposed revisions and understand why everyone has the ratings they currently do. I get the feeling that we're not going to reach perfect ratings in the new thread, because there will be a lot of scaling issues revealed by this.

I'm definitely aiming for the thread to be launched tomorrow. I've also been busier today than I would have liked.

 

[Damage3245]

Here is the 2nd part of the speed CRT: https://vsbattles.com/threads/the-big-bleach-speed-crt-part-2-post-timeskip.109741/

I've been having a rough time at home today so may not be posting as frequently as usual there, but I figure I'd put the thread up for people to look at, at least.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Feel better, man.

 

[USklaverei]

Damage, I don't understand something.
Zoomari is MHS +, both in base and Resurrección.
Byakuya without twice the Bankai is also MHS +, but in his sandbox, Byakuya is only MHS + while doubling the speed with his Bankai, I didn't understand that.

 

[Damage3245]

@USklaverei; I address this in the thread.

Don't take the sandboxes as being finalized yet.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Idk why u link it, since u are gonna do as u want no matter what we say

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Lmao wtf does this even mean guys? Randomly just panic closed the thread.

”I think I'll need to close the thread and re-organize this discussion to get back on track.”

 

[Damage3245]

@Sigurd; things have once again came off-topic. It was my own fault, mostly, because I should have gotten the current topic of resolving the non-FTL characters first before jumping into the discussion on what the FTL characters should scale to.

 

[Zoro21043]

you couldve said lets not discuss the ftl ratings for now like you did before instead of closing