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Baki: Building level downgrades

The_Prince_of_Counters

The_Prince_of_Counters

1,866
332
Pretty simple thread, there a few issues with the tier 8 characters in the verse that I've noticed. Namely the 8-C feat, and a seemingly random High 8-C slapped onto a few profiles.


Issues with small building Baki.


Okay, this one is a pretty easy one to go over, not as easy as the next point but easy nonetheless. Currently the Baki 9-A's are scaling to Spec due to his Apena Rush being calculated at such. Which is dandy,however the issue here being that we don't scale rapid-fire attacks to normal AP. Fairy Tail's 7-C's were downgraded for that reason. Similarly Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Storm attacks aren't added to his profile and were rejected for this same reason. scaling to Rapid-fire attacks have been rejected in the past as well.


Therefore Spec's Apena Rush needs to be divided into the amount of strikes it took, or be left as unusable. Similarly Retsu's first 9-A feat would have to be throw out for the same reason. Retsu's bell cracking feat cannot be used either, due to it not taking hollowness into account


The High 8-C Issue


This one i really don't need to shine much light onto as to why it's flawed.


So currently there are two High 8-C's in the verse, Musashi and Retsu. The main, and biggest issue being that there isn't any calc placing them there, only a vague statement that we can't gauge AP from. I looked around and there are zero High 8-C calcs in the verse putting them there.
 
Agreed with the problems of the first calc.

Unless there is a reason the bell isn't hollow (which is stupid since it's a bell) I also agree with the 2nd part.

Agreed with the third part too if unless someone can provide reasonings as to why.
 
First and second point are correct. I don't know the context for the third so I can't be sure.

As for the rapid-fire problem, it can be added as a separate AP section, but wouldn't scale to Striking Strength nor Durability, and the AP would need to list both Tiers
 
I've never calced any feats before so I could be wrong but isn't the hollowness of the bell irrelevant? From what I can tell KGiffoni was considering the thickness of the outer ring, he wasn't assuming the bell was just solid because that's not part of the calc.
 
No, hollowness is absolutely relevant. It's something that needs to be taken into account for feats like these. The calc doesn't include it, so it cannot be used.
 
The Calaca said:
First and second point are correct. I don't know the context for the third so I can't be sure.
As for the rapid-fire problem, it can be added as a separate AP section, but wouldn't scale to Striking Strength nor Durability, and the AP would need to list both Tiers
Click to expand...
So just add the new lower AP, and something like higher with Apnea Rush?
 
Also, to note, a large majority of Buidling level Baki characters are Maximum Tournament level fights and Spec and the convicts

1) Mostly scale amongst themselves

and 2) Only serve to support existing calcs and scaling

Though I'm not too knowledgeable on the calcs and stuff for the site. Better to wait for KG and Amlad, they're much more knowledgeable on the calcs
 
I'm here I'm here. So first, Baki characters are 9-A for multiple calcs not just the two mentioned. But to address the two, Spec's calc was already adjusted for each individual blow to better fit what occurred. If this wasn't done the yield would have been much higher. As for the bell, it should be adjusted for sure. Although since KG is the one who did the calc I would wait for his response. Anyway besides those two there's still Alex destroying a wall and Retsu pulverizing a wall that have the verse firmly at 9-A.

As for the second part, that rating is from casual Yujiro no selling a lightning bolt for an extended period of time. In comparison, Prime Doppo was capable of doing more to yujiro than said lighting bolt by stunning him for a brief moment with his punches. Hence why he got the At Least High 8-C rating. Baki Dou Doppo scales due to being weaker but comparable to his prime state and then Retsu and the others like Musashi and Katsumi scale to that.

Hope this helps.
 
Firstly, would you mind linking said accepted calcs? I've looked and all I could find were the three, and why is it assumed Spec only did it in 20 blows? Isn't Apnea Rush the same attack that lets him attack for minutes on end? If so then it would be a lot more than a simple 20 strikes. The Retsu calc has the same issues.


Could i see the lightning calc? If that's the case it should be added into notable profiles.
 
There are only 20 fist/foot imprints on the base of the statue, overlapping imprints included, so all we actually have proof for is that he hit the statue 20x (note, Apnea uses CAN hit over 100 times in under 5 seconds for 5 minutes, but that is the max. Punching that fast isn't required, nor is it required to go the full 5 mins)
 
You can count the number of indentations left in the statue in the scan itself. He didn't use the full apnea rush. As for Retsu, he gets the full yield due to Yujiro replicating the feat with one hit and Retsu still considered himself to be stronger than Yujiro.

Also I assume you're looking for Garland's calc so here it is.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KGiffoni/Alex_does_a_crater

A lot of accepted calcs (especially the recent speed ones) need to be added to the calculations tab in the Grappler Baki page but haven't yet so that's why you are having trouble finding them.
 
Also @Schnee, isn't that the older version of the lightning calc? I believe it was redone by DMUA and got High 8-C yields.
 
He is 8-B due to being superior to said lighting feat. But it should probably be changed to At least High 8-C likely 8-B.
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
Anttron224 said:
Don't we have all the calcs we are using linked to the verse page?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure, I think so

So basically as I understand it, other than KG defending the Bell Retsu calc (which is a supporting calc anyway), there will be no changes?
 
Retsu has zero reasons to scale to the 9-A wall feat, he did it in multiple strikes and the issue with that is perfectly clear. Him considering himself to be stronger than Yujiro is irrelevant, and completely false, such a statement can't be used as evidence to scale him to the full thing.


I'm also curious as to why Reinforce concrete is being used for the building either, there's no visual evidence when we see the concrete being broken by fighters, no meshing and no steel plating.


Edit: So it seems it's coming from a statement.
 
In chapter 209, Tokugawa states that the walls are made of concrete reinforced with steel. Since the walls are made mainly of concrete and are only reinforced with steel, i'll assume 3/4 concrete and 1/4 steel.

Its included in the Alex calc Amlad dropped earlier

Edit: also, if Retsu sees Yujiro clean the wall in a single hit and still thinks his not only as strong, but stronger directly implies that he should be capable of an even greater feat, as it's never even so much as hinted that the multiple strike was him even trying. If he had done the multiple hits in response to Yujiro's one hit, I'd say "Okay, he can replicate the feat, but only with multiple hits", but the "Retsu doesn't scale" argument doesn't even have that going for it
 
Yeah, edited my comment as you wrote that. So now we only have 2 9-A feats to scale from, the others need to be dismissed. As for High 8-C, regardless that needs to go. Yujiro tanking lightning was 8-B, not High 8-C.
 
Retsu objectively isn't even remotely comparable to Retsu, nor is he stronger. Again, this statement can't be used for trying to scale Retsu to Yujiro. Retsu did his in mutiple strikes, Yujiro did his in a single feat. Again, we do not scale rapid-fire attacks to normal AP.


Also Yujiro's lightning calc needs to be redone, calc members had issues with newer lightning calc and couldn't agree how to calculate it.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Retsu objectively isn't even remotely comparable to Retsu, nor is he stronger. Again, this statement can't be used for trying to scale Retsu to Yujiro. Retsu did his in mutiple strikes, Yujiro did his in a single feat. Again, we do not scale rapid-fire attacks to normal AP.

Also Yujiro's lightning calc needs to be redone, calc members had issues with newer lightning calc and couldn't agree how to calculate it.
Click to expand...
He doesn't actually scale to Yujiro, but he literally looks at the feat and says "I'm still stronger". While he doesn't scale to Yujiro, by that statement alone he should scale to Yujiro's feat
 
The feat was done by someone, psychically stronger than Retsu by a mile. He either scales to Yujiro, or doesn't. The best I'm willing to agree on for Retsu scaling to that feat is a "possibly 9-A."
 
The Prince of Counters said:
The feat was done by someone, psychically stronger than Retsu by a mile. He either scales to Yujiro, or doesn't. The best I'm willing to agree on for Retsu scaling to that feat is a "possibly 9-A."
Click to expand...
The feat itself is 9-A, and Retsu says he can do better. The claim is unrefuted within the series, so I don't know if it should be changed. 9-A Retsu also makes the most sense when scaling to other characters like Hanayama, Katsumi, Baki, and Jack
 
A 9-A feat that Yujiro did in one go, Retsu needed several hits to do the same thing. He probably can do better, but in one strike like Yujiro? That's unsupported. The claim is refuted when the series portrays Yujiro as the physical god tier of the verse and not Retsu. 9-A Retsu is fine, scaling to Alex's feat.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
A 9-A feat that Yujiro did in one go, Retsu needed several hits to do the same thing. He probably can do better, but in one strike like Yujiro? That's unsupported. The claim is refuted when the series portrays Yujiro as the physical god tier of the verse and not Retsu. 9-A Retsu is fine, scaling to Alex's feat.
Click to expand...
Right, but tbf, Retsu does the multi hit, Yujiro does the single hit, and Retsu sees that he does it in one hit and thinks he's stronger. To agree with your point, it's very clear that this isn't Yujiro full power. If it was, Retsu would actually scale above him, but I don't think Retsu realizes just how casual the feat was, leading to his misconception. Because the feat was a very casual feat for Yujiro, doing it by tapping his knuckle against the wall nonchalantly, Retsu should scale above the feat, but definitely not Yujiro. It's like if I popped a basketball with my pinky and someone saw me do that and thought that they were stronger. The implication would be that they could do that too, but they aren't aware just how easy it was for me. In any case, like you said, the scaling about Alex is fine for 9-A anyway.
 
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