Austin Theory vs Ace

[Trax]

Whatever you want papa.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I also forgot to mention that Theory has a far more versatile moveset, and he has 3 finishers that can end the fight.

Here's the AP of both combatants:

Ace: 3,347,200 Joules

Theory: 2,842,127.28351 Joules, higher with Ataxia, ATL, and A-Town Down

A roughly 1.2x AP advantage. Extremely negligible.


Austin Theory can use his SL (Social Influencing) to anger Ace into doing something stupid, and considering that Ace is an arrogant little shit (like you said), then it'll definitely play into Theory's advantage.

Keep in mind that if Theory hits either one of his 3 finishers, the fight ends there.

So his match with Gon is a stomp now? Sadge.

 

[Eminiteable]

Ace: 3,347,200 Joules

Theory: 2,842,127.28351 Joules, higher with Ataxia, ATL, and A-Town Down

Kid Ace scales to 3684702.8337 joules

 

[RandomGuy2345]

So his match with Gon is a stomp now? Sadge.

The verse went from Wall+ to high-end Wall (still a W tho).

Kid Ace scales to 3684702.8337 joules

Oh. Okay (still hardly makes a difference).

@GodlyCharmander and @Eminiteable what are y'all opinions on this fight?

 

[Shmooply]

What the **** is this thread.
Theory FRA I guess.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

What the **** is this thread.
Theory FRA I guess.

It ranged from legit debating, to straight goober debating, to mfs talking about animals, and then mfs being sus to each other.

Vote counted.

 

[Shmooply]

It ranged from legit debating, to straight goober debating, to mfs talking about animals, and then mfs being sus to each other.

You forgot to include kindergarten insults regarding someone's music taste.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

You forgot to include kindergarten insults regarding someone's music taste.

I just typed everything that I remember happening off the top of my head lol.

 

[Trax]

You forgot to include kindergarten insults regarding someone's music taste.

You mean "big boy insults"

 

[Eminiteable]

@Eminiteable what are y'all opinions on this fight?

Ace has higher AP and Durability, far greater lifting strength and far better stamina and endurance.

He's skilled enough to fight large sized wild animals and is the most skilled of the brother trio who can also do this. He's more skilled than Sabo who even without his memory was beyond the teachings of Hack a fish-man karate expert and was taught directly by Dragon.

I'm voting Ace

 

[Trax]

Ace has higher AP and Durability, far greater lifting strength and far better stamina and endurance.

He's skilled enough to fight large sized wild animals and is the most skilled of the brother trio who can also do this. He's more skilled than Sabo who even without his memory was beyond the teachings of Hack a fish-man karate expert and was taught directly by Dragon.

I'm voting Ace

I've been saying this come on bruh. One kick from ace and austin is dead

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Ace has higher AP and Durability

Two very negligible gaps.

far greater lifting strength and far better stamina and endurance.

I do have some endurance feats for Theory that could give him Immense Pain Tolerance. I need to gather them all up though (WWE in general needs to get Pain Tolerance).

He's skilled enough to fight large sized wild animals and is the most skilled of the brother trio who can also do this. He's more skilled than Sabo who even without his memory was beyond the teachings of Hack a fish-man karate expert and was taught directly by Dragon.

Theory has way better skill. I will pull out the skill essay if needed.

I'm voting Ace

I'll count your vote, though.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I've been saying this come on bruh. One kick from ace and austin is dead

I'd really appreciate it if someone banned this mf from versus debating.

 

[Trax]

I'd really appreciate it if someone banned this mf from versus debating.

Just because of a statement?

 

[Trax]

I'd really appreciate it if someone banned this mf from versus debating.

Continue coping

 

[Eminiteable]

Two very negligible gaps.

1.3 times difference isn't negligible, and for Ace who grows stronger through battle the difference will only increase.

I do have some endurance feats for Theory that could give him Immense Pain Tolerance. I need to gather them all up though (WWE in general needs to get Pain Tolerance).

Pain tolerance isn't an ability, it's just an addition to the stamina section. Either way though based on his stamina feats he's not better than Kid Ace.

Theory has way better skill. I will pull out the skill essay if needed.

If you want to make that claim you'd need to prove why he's more skilled, bringing out an essay on its own isn't enough unless said essay proves he's better than Ace. I'm not claiming Ace is more skilled because I know nothing about the other character, here's Ace's skill list:

Ace can defeat large sized predators like Bears and Tigers with experience in combat, fought pirates stronger than him with lethal weapons and is more skilled than Sabo who's skill without his memory was beyond the teachings of a fish-man karate master.

 

[Trax]

Ace can defeat large sized predators like Bears and Tigers with experience in combat, fought pirates stronger than him with lethal weapons and is more skilled than Sabo who's skill without his memory was beyond the teachings of a fish-man master.

Didn't him luffy and sabo also train with garp and his extreme challenges. Pretty sure everything that garp did to luffy was also applied to ace.


Garp even mentioned that when he left luffy and ace that happened scans shown here

 

[Eminiteable]

Didn't him luffy and sabo also train with garp and his extreme challenges. Pretty sure everything that garp did to luffy was also applied to ace.


Garp even mentioned that when he left luffy and ace that happened scans shown here

Yeah both Luffy and Ace trained with Garp most of their lives when he visited.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

1.3 times difference isn't negligible, and for Ace who grows stronger through battle the difference will only increase.

Yes it is. A 1.3x difference in AP isn't going to do much, if anything. Ace only has the ability to grow stronger in his second key. Nowhere in his first key (Kid Ace) do I see AD, RPL, or RE. Unless I'm missing something.

Pain tolerance isn't an ability, it's just an addition to the stamina section

People still list it on their profiles, but meh. I don't really care. Pain Tolerance feats are pretty much stamina feats, though.

Either way though based on his stamina feats he's not better than Kid Ace.

Here's some Pain Tolerance/Stamina feats for Theory:

After suffering two broken fingers, Austin Theory was able to fight through the pain throughout his match against Pete Dunne and Oney Lorcan.

Fought Kevin Owens after suffering a swollen/sore jaw after getting KO'd by Tyson Fury.

It's not quite on the level of Ace, but if Theory were to get injured in the fight, he'd still be able to fight on.

If you want to make that claim you'd need to prove why he's more skilled, bringing out an essay on its own isn't enough unless said essay proves he's better than Ace. I'm not claiming Ace is more skilled because I know nothing about the other character, here's Ace's skill list:

Ace can defeat large sized predators like Bears and Tigers with experience in combat, fought pirates stronger than him with lethal weapons and is more skilled than Sabo who's skill without his memory was beyond the teachings of a fish-man master.

Lmao okay.

Well, for starters, Austin Theory was a bodybuilding champion at the age of 17. Here's an image of him in that bodybuilding competition. Keep in mind he was only 17 at the time. Now that he’s a full time professional wrestler at the age of 25, there’s no doubt in my mind that Theory is in full peak condition, making him physically superior to a lot of the wrestlers in the roster, as well as one of the most athletically gifted.

Theory was stated by commentary to have been blessed with all of the tools an athlete can hope for, and is a true prodigy in the world of professional wrestling. This already shows the massive amounts of potential/skill Theory has.

To start things off with a bang, there’s this new wrestler called Axiom. In this promo, he’s billed as someone who can quickly analyze and react to anything thanks to his gift for mathematics, which he uses to defeat wrestlers in the ring. Yes, this guy uses mathematical formulas while in the middle of a match to defeat his opponents. Keep in mind, this guy struggles with NXT wrestlers, while Austin Theory has fought on par with and defeated some of the best wrestlers in the business, so Theory is likely far superior to the likes of Axiom, which is already extremely impressive in itself.

Theory on his debut NXT match was able to fight on par with Roderick Strong. Strong has over 20 years of experience as a wrestler, and was nicknamed The Master of the Backbreaker, due to his ability to constantly target the opponent's back in wrestling matchups.

Theory was also able to hold his own against the likes of Aleister Black, who was trained in Pencak Silat and Kickboxing from the ages 9 to 15.

Austin Theory defeated Ricochet in only a couple of minutes. Ricochet is notorious for using his absurd levels of acrobatics and quick reflexes to blitz, overwhelm, and defeat his opponents.

Theory was able to give Bobby Lashley a good run for his money. Bobby Lashley has a very good mixed martial arts background, having a record of 15-2, defeating the likes of Joshua Franklin in 41 seconds (TKO), and Mike Cook in 24 seconds (Submission). He even defeated James Thompson, who at that point, had over a decade of experience in mixed martial arts. Lashley defeated him in 54 seconds via TKO.

Theory was also able to give AJ Styles a good run for his money. AJ Styles is the same guy who was able to beat John Cena clean. Cena is the same guy who looked like was about to beat Brock Lesnar before getting interrupted. Brock Lesnar was an Amateur Wrestler, and a Mixed Martial Artist career, which he uses, along with his Amateur Wrestling background to decimate his opponents. Lesnar had a record of 106-5 in his 4 years of college wrestling at the NCAA, as well as winning the NCAA Division I Heavyweight Championship. Lesnar also had a UFC career. Lesnar also ended the iconic 21-year Wrestlemania win streak of The Undertaker.

Theory was able to trade blows with the likes of Drew McIntyre. McIntyre is the same guy who had wars with the likes of Sheamus. In fact, while participating in a grueling ‘Good Old Fashioned Donnybrook’ match, McIntyre was even capable of kicking out of The Brogue Kick. The Brogue Kick is one of the most dangerous moves in all of Pro Wrestling. A referee suffered chronic neck pain when hit with the move. The Brogue Kick was stated to cause extreme nerve damage and tingling in the extremitiesof the victim. A move this dangerous was something that Drew McIntyre kicked out of, and Theory traded blows with McIntyre.

After a hard-hitting, physical match, Theory was able to defeat Dolph Ziggler clean. Ziggler has a great amateur wrestling background. Ziggler set the record for most pins in St. Edward High School with 82 pins. When he was a wrestler at Kent State University, he at one point, held the record for most career wins in the team's history, earning 121 wins (the record was soon broken, but this still says a lot for how skilled Theory is).

Dolph Ziggler is also the same guy who was able to give Matt Riddle a good run for his money. Matt Riddle states that he's basically done every form of combat sports from Jujitsu, Pancrase. Muay Thai, Boxing, and Kickboxing (Stated here).
https://youtu.be/5PTh0fWacHU?t=149
Theory was able to defeat Finn Balor for the United States Championship, becoming the youngest US Champion in WWE history. Now here's where I go talking about Finn Balor's skill.

Finn Balor defeated Pete Dunne, who's fighting style revolves around brawling, stiff strikes, submission grappling, and bending of his opponents fingers (Small Joint Manipulation), which will leave someone extremely handicapped in a fight, especially since wrestling is all about striking, grappling and holding, and you can't do that without functioning fingers. Pete Dunne was also the same guy who was able to solo the entire Undisputed Era by himself, and the group has been regarded as one of the most dominant factions in WWE history. The group ended up winning all of the gold in NXT at one point.

Balor was also able to give Roman Reigns a good run for his money. Roman Reigns became the 2nd man to defeat The Undertaker at Wrestlemania.

The Undertaker is considered the greatest pure striker in Sports Entertainment history. Even the likes of Kurt Angle was scared to take a punch from him.

If ya don't know Kurt Angle, he's notorious for winning a gold medal with a broken neck, who is this skilled, and was named the greatest shoot wrestler ever.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Like I said. Ace stands no chance against Theory in a CQC battle.

Add on Theory's Instinctive Reactions, Social Influencing, and his ATL finishing move, and that becomes a huge struggle for Ace to deal with all at once.

 

[Trax]

Like I said. Ace stands no chance against Theory in a CQC battle.

Add on Theory's Instinctive Reactions, Social Influencing, and his ATL finishing move, and that becomes a huge struggle for Ace to deal with all at once.

Social influencing is going to be useless. Because ace might be arrogant but he can ignore someone, unless you target his family members specifically. Theory's reaction speed is good but nowhere near as good as someone like ace. Atl finishing move would probably be something that's a problem but ace will tank that and a bit more since hes literally superhuman. Ace also has quite the endurance and stamina. If austin gets hit with a couple of swings, a couple of punches or kicks and this is me being generous austin will die. It's that simple whether you like it or not it's the damn truth. Austin isn't handling tigers, bears nor crocodiles that's a lie. Because no human on this earth can with their own strength so by default Ace bodies him.

 

[Eminiteable]

Yes it is. A 1.3x difference in AP isn't going to do much, if anything. Ace only has the ability to grow stronger in his second key. Nowhere in his first key (Kid Ace) do I see AD, RPL, or RE. Unless I'm missing something.

It should be in the first key, his method of growing stronger as a child was purely from fighting people it wasn't something he gained as an adult. I'll make a CRT for it later.

Here's some Pain Tolerance/Stamina feats for Theory:

After suffering two broken fingers, Austin Theory was able to fight through the pain throughout his match against Pete Dunne and Oney Lorcan.

Fought Kevin Owens after suffering a swollen/sore jaw after getting KO'd by Tyson Fury.

It's not quite on the level of Ace, but if Theory were to get injured in the fight, he'd still be able to fight on.

Sure, but if he was injured further than this like what would happen against Ace or if he was forced to fight for hours I don't see how he can compare.

Lmao okay.

If you want to make that claim you'd need to prove why he's more skilled, bringing out an essay on its own isn't enough unless said essay proves he's better than Ace.

Also seen nothing in that essay that proves his skill is high enough to make up for the stat difference in AP, Dura, LS and Stamina.

Social Influencing, and his ATL finishing move

His social influencing isn't doing much here, Luffy who has far better social influencing than him was unable to make Ace even respond or interact with him despite trying to get his attention for several days.

His finishing moves don't have higher AP than Ace's regular stats so I don't see how they're an issue here.

 

[Trax]

His social influencing isn't doing much here, Luffy who has far better social influencing than him was unable to make Ace even respond or interact with him despite trying to get his attention for several days.

This is quite literally nothing but facts, we not only get feats of this happening but we quite literally get a statement FROM MIHAWK HIMSELF. It took luffy sacrificing his life and holding that secret just for ace to even acknowledge his existence

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It should be in the first key, his method of growing stronger as a child was purely from fighting people it wasn't something he gained as an adult. I'll make a CRT for it later.

For now, he has an AP advantage that's really not going to help him here. It's negligible. I've never heard anyone say a 1.3x AP advantage isn't negligible.

Sure, but if he was injured further than this like what would happen against Ace or if he was forced to fight for hours I don't see how he can compare.

Okay. The point never was that he could outlast Ace. My point was that Theory can sustain many injuries that would hinder any normal person, and continue to fight on.

Also seen nothing in that essay that proves his skill is high enough to make up for the stat difference in AP, Dura, LS and Stamina.

Lmao. AP and Dura are negligible. A 1.3x difference isn't jack. LS and Stamina are cool, but I highly doubt this match is going to last hours on end. You must be reading some different skill essay if you think that Theory can't overcome those advantages. He fights and defeats wrestlers who can hold their own against other wrestlers. who can fight and defeat the greatest pure striker in history (The Undertaker), as well as the greatest shoot wrestler ever (Kurt Angle). You're heavily underplaying Theory's skill here. Ace hasn't shown skill anywhere near this level (unless you can prove me wrong).

His social influencing isn't doing much here, Luffy who has far better social influencing than him was unable to make Ace even respond or interact with him despite trying to get his attention for several days.

Okay. Social Influencing isn't the end all be all.

His finishing moves don't have higher AP than Ace's regular stats so I don't see how they're an issue here.

I'm 1000% confident they do. To elaborate, James Ellsworth, widely regarded as one of the weakest wrestlers in WWE, almost defeated AJ Styles with his finisher. AJ Styles has defeated God Tiers like John Cena, and is widely regarded as one of the best wrestlers in the world, let alone all time.

Imagine what damage Theory's ATL would do when hit against someone comparable to him in AP/Dura.

 

[Trax]

I'm 1000% confident they do. To elaborate, James Ellsworth, widely regarded as one of the weakest wrestlers in WWE, almost defeated AJ Styles with his finisher. AJ Styles has defeated God Tiers like John Cena, and is widely regarded as one of the best wrestlers in the world, let alone all time.

Wasn't Aj styles extremely damaged already and exhausted at that point. Aj styles defeated john cena but john cena im pretty sure defeated the undertaker who is well above aj styles no matter what argument you try to say. But there was this short dude I forgot his name but he was really fast its not rey mysterio tho

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Wasn't Aj styles extremely damaged already and exhausted at that point

Hell no. He was destroying Ellsworth. He was literally toying with him the entire match until he got distracted.

Aj styles defeated john cena but john cena im pretty sure defeated the undertaker who is well above aj styles no matter what argument you try to say

1. John Cena has never defeated The Undertaker.
2. When Cena and Taker clashed at Wrestlemania 34, Cena lost in a few minutes.

 

[Trax]

Hell no. He was destroying Ellsworth. He was literally toying with him the entire match until he got distracted.

Thats tough.

1. John Cena has never defeated The Undertaker.
2. When Cena and Taker clashed at Wrestlemania 34, Cena lost in a few minutes.

I don't know if tag team matches count where it was john cena and undertaker vs these other dudes. But when both john cena and the undetaker won all there is to say is that john cena was on the ground.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I don't know if tag team matches count where it was john cena and undertaker vs these other dudes. But when both john cena and the undetaker won all there is to say is that john cena was on the ground.

If Cena was on the ground when he and Taker won the Tag match, that's a clear indication that Cena's weaker (unless if I'm reading this wrong).

Anyways, my point still holds weight. Theory's finisher (specifically the ATL) will put Ace out for good.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

... Wtf?

Humans, could never be monkeys

 

[Eminiteable]

Okay. The point never was that he could outlast Ace. My point was that Theory can sustain many injuries that would hinder any normal person, and continue to fight on.

And Ace can take far worse than that and inevitably deal far worse to Austin theory to the point where he won't be able to continue fighting.

For now, he has an AP advantage that's really not going to help him here. It's negligible. I've never heard anyone say a 1.3x AP advantage isn't negligible.

Lmao. AP and Dura are negligible. A 1.3x difference isn't jack.

I don't know what gave you the impression that being 1.3 times stronger and more durable is negligible, especially considering the way both of them are fighting here.

LS and Stamina are cool, but I highly doubt this match is going to last hours on end.

Ace who's superior to Luffy at this point can endure and survive that long while defenseless against an opponent stronger than himself using spiked gloves. How exactly is Austin theory going to finish this fight before Ace has reached his stamina threshold?

must be reading some different skill essay if you think that Theory can't overcome those advantages. He fights and defeats wrestlers who can hold their own against other wrestlers. who can fight and defeat the greatest pure striker in history (The Undertaker), as well as the greatest shoot wrestler ever (Kurt Angle). You're heavily underplaying Theory's skill here. Ace hasn't shown skill anywhere near this level (unless you can prove me wrong).

Sure, in skill Kid Ace > Sabo > Sabo with amnesia who's beyond the teachings of Hack who's a level 100 fish-man karate practitioner.

Keeping in mind Kuroobi who's a level 40 practitioner is far inferior to Hack, and was able to contend with Sanji for some time with his skill; being able to accurately land hits on Sanji's vital points and evade his attacks.

To my knowledge Austin Theory has never fought someone with as much stamina, endurance or Lifting strength as Ace so me claiming that his skill is able to overcome that is valid.

I'm 1000% confident they do. To elaborate, James Ellsworth, widely regarded as one of the weakest wrestlers in WWE, almost defeated AJ Styles with his finisher. AJ Styles has defeated God Tiers like John Cena, and is widely regarded as one of the best wrestlers in the world, let alone all time.

Imagine what damage Theory's ATL would do when hit against someone comparable to him in AP/Dura.

If they don't have a calc, stated multiplier or even feats for it you can't claim it's higher than Ace, you can claim logically it's higher than his own AP though.

 

[Trax]

... Wtf?

Humans, could never be monkeys

Monkey D Luffy reading this message with tears in his eyes.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yee Ace fra via emin's reasonings

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Monkey D Luffy reading this message with tears in his eyes.

He's somewhat a monkey as well.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

And Ace can take far worse than that and inevitably deal far worse to Austin theory to the point where he won't be able to continue fighting.

Why are you acting like a 1.3x AP advantage is a big AP gap? It's not anything special. I've never seen anyone state a 1.3x AP advantage is anything significant.

I don't know what gave you the impression that being 1.3 times stronger and more durable is negligible, especially considering the way both of them are fighting here.

That's because it is negligible. It's nothing crazy at all. Now if it was something like 1.6x or 1.7x, then that's when we're getting into territory where Theory will need to watch out for hits (even then, it's not like Ace is going to KO Theory in one punch. Far from it). Are you also forgetting the fact that Theory has Instinctive Reactions? On top of a skill advantage? Ace is going to struggle to land any meaningful hits.

Ace who's superior to Luffy at this point can endure and survive that long while defenseless against an opponent stronger than himself using spiked gloves. How exactly is Austin theory going to finish this fight before Ace has reached his stamina threshold?

By KO'ing him using his finisher? Stamina gets thrown out the window when you're getting KO'd. Theory can literally beat opponents in only a couple of minutes using his finisher. He beat Ricochet in 1:45 and Leon Ruff in 1:46. That's not a big issue whatsoever.

Sure, in skill Kid Ace > Sabo > Sabo with amnesia who's beyond the teachings of Hack who's a level 100 fish-man karate practitioner.

Not as impressive as combining Jujitsu, Pancrase, Muay Thai, Kickboxing, and Boxing in combat. Using the likes of The Undertaker and Kurt Angle would just be overkill. Theory has fought on par with far more versatile fighters with many different styles, from Luchadores, Technicians, Strikers, Powerhouses, and even hybrids of multiple different styles of combat. This is impressive, but nothing crazy.

Keeping in mind Kuroobi who's a level 40 practitioner is far inferior to Hack, and was able to contend with Sanji for some time with his skill; being able to accurately land hits on Sanji's vital points and evade his attacks.

Read what I said above.

To my knowledge Austin Theory has never fought someone with as much stamina, endurance or Lifting strength as Ace so me claiming that his skill is able to overcome that is valid.

Bro what? Like I said, Theory can finish his opponents off in literally less than 2 minutes with his finisher. And while I can concede on the fact that Ace might be able to tank 1 finisher, he's going to be severely weakened, leaving Theory to get the chance to finish him off. Keep in mind that one of the weakest wrestlers ever was able to harm and nearly defeat one of the best wrestlers in the world, as well as all time, with his finisher (keep in mind that the wrestler that got hit with the finisher took no prior damage up to that point)

To counter that, Ace has never fought someone with the skill Theory has. Let's not also forget Theory's Instinctive Reactions, which will come in clutch for him here.

If they don't have a calc, stated multiplier or even feats for it you can't claim it's higher than Ace, you can claim logically it's higher than his own AP though.

...I literally just showed you a feat showing one of the weakest wrestlers ever harming and nearly defeating one of the best wrestlers ever.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

WHERE ARE THE WWE SUPPORTERS WHEN YOU NEED THEM

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I'm sorry, I like truth and WWE... But like you are overhyping feats that aren't even meant to be feats kinda

His Instinctive Reactions, is quite bad, it's when hes knocked out and only does like a punch or kick randomly, literally the first clip of the justification shows it

 

[azontr]

Theory FRA.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

I'm sorry, I like truth and WWE... But like you are overhyping feats that aren't even meant to be feats kinda

I'm...confused on what you mean by the bolded words. Also, I'm not overhyping anything whatsoever.

His Instinctive Reactions, is quite bad, it's when hes knocked out and only does like a punch or kick randomly, literally the first clip of justification of it

How is that bad in any way? That's solid IR for an opponent that thinks they have the upper hand, and considering that kid Ace is pretty arrogant, that could be his downfall.

 

[Trax]

Theory FRA.

WHat does FRA mean?

 

[Trax]

I'm...confused on what you mean by the bolded words. Also, I'm not overhyping anything whatsoever.


How is that bad in any way? That's solid IR for an opponent that thinks they have the upper hand, and considering that kid Ace is pretty arrogant, that could be his downfall.

You once said "theory could also handle tigers and crocodiles" Seems silly doesn't it