Attack Potency, Problems and Clarifications (Staff only)

[Skalt711]

Tier 6 reasonings. See DontTalk's comment for the High 6-A rating.

My notes on the blog:

Guyana's 214969 km2 is ridiculously close to 214500.69 km2 (Small Country level explosion), so maybe Guyana can be used to be an example for Small Country level.

I'm not sure what to correspond 774753.06 km2 (Country level explosion). It lies between Chile's 756102 km2 and Turkey's 783562 km2.

4481769 km2 (Large Country level explosion) doesn't have close relation country-wise. The closest's being India with its 3287263 km2.

 

[Ugarik]

Off topic but thanks for the correction. This method was used in the first part of the calc but it seems the brackets were misplaced while calculating the radius

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

If we're on this subject, Mountain level is a useless and arbitraty tier, as only busting the 100 largest mountains in the world would get you anything above city level. I can only assume it was placed in there to round out tier 7, and tbh it should be replaced with large city level while Large Mountain should become Mountain.

So instead of having 7-B, 7-A and High 7-A, we should have 7-B, High 7-B and 7-A.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Wouldn't that make less sense^

If the idea is that mountain level only applies to 100 largest mountains, then why would you make mountain level need to have an energy output to apply to destroying a mountain, why would 1 Gigaton and higher be mountain level, wouldn't you have to lower the bar of mountain level to do what you're suggesting, otherwise I think the current bars are ok

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I feel like 9-B is far too large of a tier. Perhaps it would benefit to split the higher/middle end into subtiers like we do with tiers like Town level and City level?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Forgive me for being blunt but I...honestly don't see why this matters. They're just titles. So far the only thing I've seen so far that would make a difference is splitting up 9-B.

 

[Skalt711]

I feel like 9-B is far too large of a tier. Perhaps it would benefit to split the higher/middle end into subtiers like we do with tiers like Town level and City level?

Maybe splitting into Low 9-B (Brick level) and 9-B (Wall level) would work?

 

[The_Causality]

I don't really see why 9-B need to be splitted, being as big as he is currently isn't a big problem imo

 

[Wokistan]

9-B is a weird tier because this is where penetration would ordinarily be important (Barrett M82 shots can damage things we rate as 9-A, for example) but we don't like to do that.

 

[Skalt711]

Btw I don't see any problems with 9-B staying as is.

 

[AKM sama]

Despite it being much bigger than the other lower tiers, I don't see much benefit in splitting 9-B. I think it's fine the way it is.

 

[Wokistan]

I don't either, that's just how it is. Reality is just weird sometimes.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Maybe splitting into Low 9-B (Brick level) and 9-B (Wall level) would work?

I wouldn't want to rename/change baseline Wall level since that would require far more sitewide revisions.

Have a higher end labeled High 9-B labelled as Room level. Nostalgia points too since we used to have a rating called that. Maybe once we exit the range of large animal KE.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Despite it being much bigger than the other lower tiers, I don't see much benefit in splitting 9-B. I think it's fine the way it is.

It just as an abnormally large range, and we split up higher tiers with ridiculously smaller gaps.

 

[Wokistan]

I'm on the opposite side of that myself. I don't think things like Low 6-B need to exist, for instance, especially when High 6-C also exists.

Also, look at 4-B and above.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also, look at 4-B and above.

4-B and above deal with massive interstellar distances that have vast orders of magnitude beteen them.

Seems odd for the same to apply to one of the lowest tiers.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that it is best if the tiers themselves stay as they are, but we simply try to verify what the given energy borders mean, and if necessary adjust them.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

That sounds like the best paln^

 

[Skalt711]

I don't see any explanation to how Small Building, Building, Large Building, Small Town, Town, Large Town, Small City, City, Mountain, Small Island, Island and Large Island level borders are calculated. Moreover, Town uses 1 km diameter nuclear blast, while City uses 10 km diameter nuclear blast as bases.

Edit: These 1 km and 10 km diameters are overly generic.

 

[Andytrenom]

Forgive me for being blunt but I...honestly don't see why this matters. They're just titles. So far the only thing I've seen so far that would make a difference is splitting up 9-B.

This is your opinion on the arbitrary tier borders matter correct?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yes.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Cal

I get where you're coming from, but we based many of our tiers, from wall to the stellar potencies, on actual calced values. I don't fully get why we just slapped on arbitrary values instead of at least having a reason for those values. For all we know 7-A's border is no where near mountain-busting.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I honestly feel we're being too rigid with Tier Names. They're just supposed to give a general idea.

 

[Sera_EX]

The tiers need to remain exactly the same. All that needs to be done is give the appropriate example for baseline. Because while Matt is correct, a building can be anything. If I blew up McDonalds am I Small Building level or Building level? Is destroying New Orleans City level or Large City level? Some of these lower tiers need but have have no example for baseline yet Planet level does. A calc would help sure but calcs rely on certain baseline examples to get results.

 

[The_Causality]

Don't blow up a Mac Donald pls

Anyway i agree

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Sera makes sense.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Also agree with Sera.

 

[Skalt711]

I'm not sure what can be used as an example for Small Building level, but there is an explosion as powerful as 5 kgs of TNT that violently blows up a car.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Sera, we can't really change the tiers; just give better explanation for them. It's not worth revising every profile because to be perfectly clear. We're looking for Quality over Quantity projects, not the other way around.

 

[Elizhaa]

Also agree with Sera.

I agree as well

 

[Andytrenom]

Assalt said it perfectly.

Also as Sera said, a large part of the thread is simply about sourcing the values listed for the borders. Not changing them.

It is only the completely baseless values for tiers that are in talk of being revised.

 

[Antvasima]

So, would any members who are knowledgeable about physics be willing to cooperate with DontTalkDT to investigate this?

 

[Skalt711]

I'm not that experienced with mathematics, but I'll cooperate as I do know how to work with numbers.

This is more dependent on physics knowledge as far as I know.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

I have reasonable experience with both physics and mathematics, I'd be perfectly willing to help out wherever needed

 

[Skalt711]

^ Then I'll definitely help

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

Not to be a jerk or anything, but I have asked about this many times over to quite a few people, and only now we decide to treat it as important? Quite funny considering that when I ask about it, it's considered busy work that is too big and unnecessary and would need for a review for the whole wiki, but leave to a mod to say something, and boom, problem solved

 

[CinCameron20]

I can just briefly calc a few minimals for each tier (starting from tier 8 and using 8j/cc and 69j/cc values... assuming most of the foundation is stone.):

8-C, let's use a standard 2-story house with 625 square feet on each floor, about 16 to 18 feet tall as well. converted to meters, the volume would be 929.0304m^3, 80% hollowness gives us 185.806080m^3. If we use 8j/cc, that'd be 0.355269751434 Tons of Tnt. 3.0642016061185 Tons of Tnt with 69j/cc.

High 8-C, a Skyscraper. They are generally at least 150m in height (40 floors or more), so I'll use that for now. Square footage for each floor should be at the very least 1450 (134.7094m^2), but that's a guess. Volume of 4041.282m^3 (80% hollowness), 8j/cc = 7.7271166347992 Tons of Tnt. 69j/cc = 66.6463809751434 Tons of Tnt.

Significant change so far from current base-line. Basically 8-C would go from .35 Tons of Tnt to 7.727 Tons of Tnt or 3 Tons to 66.646 Tons.

More to come if these seem acceptable to use (as long as there would be citations for the sizes).

I think Town tier would see the most drastic changes, but I have no idea what to use as a base-line.

 

[Agnaa]

Not to be a jerk or anything, but I have asked about this many times over to quite a few people, and only now we decide to treat it as important? Quite funny considering that when I ask about it, it's considered busy work that is too big and unnecessary and would need for a review for the whole wiki, but leave to a mod to say something, and boom, problem solved

Out of curiousity, could you link to where you asked about this?

 

[Antvasima]

Not to be a jerk or anything, but I have asked about this many times over to quite a few people, and only now we decide to treat it as important? Quite funny considering that when I ask about it, it's considered busy work that is too big and unnecessary and would need for a review for the whole wiki, but leave to a mod to say something, and boom, problem solved

Well, I think that I have repeatedly asked various other staff members about this, but nothing has happened so far. I hope that we will properly investigate it this time.