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Arthur Morgan vs Edward Kenway

Guns were created to kill other humans, not to kill other, much more powerful beings. Even then, high caliber rifles are needed to kill animals that don't even reach that high in 9-B, let alone 9-A+. Piercing damage being inconsistent in fiction doesn't mean that we should treat all 9-A+ characters as being easily susceptible to bullets, it means we ignore the inconsistencies in favour of what makes sense. Being 9-A+ doesn't make you completely bullet proof, but it provides a lot of protection against bullets.

For reference, 9-A+ is the equivalent of dozens of layers of kevlar.
 
Edward really doesn't die to one bullet (Especially one targeted towards his stomach), nor can he be significantly staggered by it. Even a full firing line isn't enough to take him down. Though this only counts towards body shots and not headshots.
 
> Edward really doesn't die to one bullet (Especially one targeted towards his stomach), nor can he be significantly staggered by it. Even a full firing line isn't enough to take him down. Though this only counts towards body shots and not headshots.

I've said this before as well, if it was a non fatal injury or even a fatal one to the chest, Edward would be able to push through that, he's not dying in one bullet, but he should be more worried about having a barrage of bullets flying at him.

As for him being staggered-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwVwrV9wx54&start=236
 
That's what I meant, it'd only push him back a little bit.

To be fair tho, it's not as bad as Kiryu getting shot
 
Also, as for reference to guns, the same is said for Arthur as well. Arthur can withstand a good amount of bullets until he gets put down, in a reasonable sense of course. If a cop has a shotgun at point blank arthur dies instantly.
 
GyroNutz said:
Guns were created to kill other humans, not to kill other, much more powerful beings. Even then, high caliber rifles are needed to kill animals that don't even reach that high in 9-B, let alone 9-A+. Piercing damage being inconsistent in fiction doesn't mean that we should treat all 9-A+ characters as being easily susceptible to bullets, it means we ignore the inconsistencies in favour of what makes sense. Being 9-A+ doesn't make you completely bullet proof, but it provides a lot of protection against bullets.
For reference, 9-A+ is the equivalent of dozens of layers of kevlar.
Click to expand...
It isn't "inconsistent", just different takes that varies verse by verse, some of them indeed make their characters bulletproof, some don't, we already mentioned some examples, DMC consistently shows characters being vulnerable to sharp weaponry, Resident Evil consistently shows people vulnerable to sharp weaponry and piercing damage, the list goes on

Funny enough, Assassins being harmed by sharp weaponry and piercing damage is "consistent" between AC series and I'm talking about Lore, not gameplay. Ignoring because "doesn't make any sense" doesn't make any sense

Also, even if said damage is done by people stronger than normal, Arthur is also stronger (fodders in AC aren't 9-B), and his guns can rip limbs with a single shot, which is also something stronger than normal

Also also, the battle conditions here completely matters for my Inconclusive vote
 
AC normal swords having 9-A AP ? Hmm

Minotaur is a real 9-A, his axe obviously scale, the same can't be said to fodders with swords and guns
 
Nope, only the best of the best blades have 9-A AP. Like Altair's personal sword or Edward Kenway's swords or the Swords of Eden. Fodder swords aren't even available for purchase as of AC4.
 
Not exactly, but lore or canon, swords and guns are dangerous to Assassins

Gameplay can't be taken that serious in the damage part, as it would make everyone scale to the protagonist
 
Actually, they really don't scale (They have their own low-end 9-A feat to scale to, mainly Kassandra's door-busting feat, only fodder that scales to the top tiers by lore are Abstergo Guards since they relived the lives of the enemies of Ezio and Edward via the Animi Training Program). Only guards that can seriously challenge Edward are the elite captains, brutes and the game bosses.
 
Yes, but it's not like those bosses or elite guards have any different weaponry than normal fodder ones. They still carry around flintlocks and swords.
 
Yeah, but they hit considerably harder, faster and take more chunks of Edward's health than most fodder foot soldiers.

Regardless, it's irrelevant to the fight.
 
So the vast majority agree with this being a stomp or the odds being way too much against Arthur.

I'm not saying this should be closed but..
 
Dante Demon Killah said:
It isn't "inconsistent", just different takes that varies verse by verse, some of them indeed make their characters bulletproof, some don't, we already mentioned some examples, DMC consistently shows characters being vulnerable to sharp weaponry, Resident Evil consistently shows people vulnerable to sharp weaponry and piercing damage, the list goes on
Click to expand...
No author that knows fully how powerful their character is would have them get pierced by bullets tens of thousands of times weaker than them. Stuff like bullets, large falls, etc are consistently inconsistent throughout fiction, and if we want to rate characters based off of real life weaponry, we can't suddenly accept hundreds of different author interpretations of how powerful their character is in relation to bullets.

Also, just because something happens frequently doesn't make it logical or right. In almost every one of his games, Mario gets harmed by Goombas, yet logic dictates that they're fodder enemies who shouldn't be anywhere near Mario's level. Not exactly the same scenario, I know, but you get the idea.

jsyk I'm not voting for either character and do believe this is a stomp.
 
> jsyk I'm not voting for either character and do believe this is a stomp.

You have yet to prove evidence on the contrary. Just saying it's a "stomp" contributes nothing and is supported by nothing. Claiming Edward is invincible compared to Arthur because of an AP gap is the most laughable thing I've ever seen. I can show you tier 8 and tier 7 characters that can absolutely stomp tier 3's and 2's with no effort. Tiering means nothing when talking about hax, and in this case weapons that have consistently shown to be more powerful than any handheld weapon/gun in AC 4. The difference in the characters physical strength in this fight is literally irrelevant to the topic at hand, because arthur will be using his weapons to put Edward down, not his physical strength.

Also, claiming that this fight can't happen because of inconsistency and that they are 2 different verses is asinine, since by that logic we wouldn't be able to compare any 2 characters from different verses.

I have said this countless times by now, Edward has shown consistently to be susceptible to gunshots and they can be fatal to him. If he can be injured and killed by glorified BB guns in his verse, there is literally no evidence or reason why Arthur putting a Pump Shotgun to his teeth and pulling the trigger wouldn't blow Edward's skull off into a million pieces like he does with any single person he kills in-game.
 
Just for context, we are saying a character who has Standard Human Weaknesses, and last time I checked, a Standard Human can be injured from a gunshot, can be harmed and killed by this, but not be harmed by these.
 
Again, why are bullets being able to damage Edward even a factor when Arthur's not even gonna be able to see his target who does stealth multiple times better than him and has basically adapted to forest life even better than Arthur?
 
> Again, why are bullets being able to damage Edward even a factor when Arthur's not even gonna be able to see his target who does stealth multiple times better than him and has basically adapted to forest life?

Because for some unknown reason people still believe edward would not be harmed by a pump shotgun blast at point blank range to the face, and are using this as a basis to say it's a stomp. That was the literal whole point of the thread as I'll say again, Edward has to sneak up on Arthur and take him down in CQB before Arthur can spot him and riddle him with bullets. That is the premise of this entire thread, and why it was made. That is what people have voted on, not about Edward somehow becoming a walking talking juggernaut.
 
Either way tho, this seems kinna highly-decisive for Edward. He just edges out in stealth way too much, is waaay too familiar with rainforests and can practically live off of it even if you left him there bare-naked, is hella more agile, and would manage to close the distance a hell of a lot more times than Arthur because of this (Arthur's stealth and senses are good, but not Assassin's Creed levels of good, and his Dead Eye's speed amp would only work if Edward is in direct line of his sight, which, again, Edward's too good for).

And no, Edward just needs to poke Arthur to end him once he closes in, the AP and lifting strength advantage of Edward is massive.

Worst part? Arthur's Eagle Eye only works in tracing animals and plants AFAIK, since I've played the game myself, and it lasts only for 10 seconds. Edward's Eagle Vision? Basically works for anything, will last as long as Edward doesn't enter open conflict or runs and will detect Arthur immediately without Edward even needing to make eye contact.
 
> Worst part? Arthur's Eagle Eye only works in tracing animals and plants AFAIK, since I've played the game myself, and it lasts only for 10 seconds. Edward's Eagle Vision? Basically works for anything, will last as long as Edward doesn't enter open conflict or runs and will detect Arthur immediately without Edward even needing to make eye contact.

It also highlights enemies and pulses them, he just can't see through walls. Also, Arthur has Preparation, and knows Edward is coming. Dead eye is the deciding factor thoughout this match, because if arthur even gets a hint of Edward's general direction Edward is in trouble. Mind you, both don't know about each other's abilities. So if Edward tries at any point (which I don't think he will) to challenge arthur at distance via pistols or blowdart, he's done for.
 
Edward doesn't use pistols at long distances, ever (Unless he's got a musket, that is). Blowdart is also highly-situational, almost all the time he will use his Hidden Blades instead. And once Edward tags his enemies, he can keep them in his line of sight even with his Eagle Vision turned off.

Also Edward being able to detect traps with his Eagle Vision is also gonna screw up Arthur's prep a bit.
 
Athur's prep isn't just for traps btw. He has shown the ability to create highly complex plans on the fly, so with prep and the knowledge that someone is here to assassinate him, he will use that to his advantage. High Ground, river bed, ect.
 
Not gonna be a problem because Edward's notorious for adapting to his surroundings and stuff he's never seen before, even rivalling the skill of a Master Assassin in regards with basically everything in the process.
 
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