- 17,593
- 12,912
It works on those who can alter or speed up ones regen
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Armament Haki Changes
- Thread starter Kachon123
- Start date
- 21,143
- 30,099
You read and responded to this less than an hour ago
- 1,744
- 1,167
If Marco fought someone strong off-screen, it would automatically imply he would manage to hurt said strong person, which means cough who is it? and would Marco scale to off-screen-kun, whose name we don't know? (was it Smoker? Aokiji? Sengoku? Hancock? Crocodile? we can go on forever because there are literally 20+ characters you could speculate to fight Marco off-screen and gave him an injury bigger than Garp, so does that mean we got a Yonko character stronger than Garp and Whitebead in marineford?).
How does that not scream headcanon, if we don't even know it even happened? Kizaru and Akainu was too busy chasing after Law and Luffy, Aokiji had his hands full with Jozu, so anyone as strong as Garp or whitebeard i forgot?.
How does that not scream headcanon, if we don't even know it even happened? Kizaru and Akainu was too busy chasing after Law and Luffy, Aokiji had his hands full with Jozu, so anyone as strong as Garp or whitebeard i forgot?.
- 5,220
- 3,346
Which isn't what I said, don't strawman.
- 29,892
- 25,063
When has it been shown to extend to non-Devil Fruit healing?
- 21,143
- 30,099
You said someone offscreen hurt him.
Aokiji was with Jozu
Kizaru was with Marco most of the time
Akainu was with WB or in his chair
Sengoku and Garp were standing next to Ace
Mihawk was with Vista or Crocodile or Jinbe
Everybody else was fodder.
- 17,593
- 12,912
- 21,143
- 30,099
Occam's razor.
Negation of devil fruit abilities have stretched to their non devil fruit counterparts.
Another devil fruit would follow the same rule unless contradicted
- 5,220
- 3,346
I never said a marine fodder injured him like AnosVoldigoad314 claimed.
Did you not respond to my post where I detailed the 4 or 5 off-screen encounters Marco had? No idea why you're trying to play it off like Marco didn't fight anyone off-screen after Garp when I've literally proven that he did.
- 17,593
- 12,912
Ok but why wouldn't he just regen from the random person that injured him?
- 29,892
- 25,063
That is a very liberal usage of Occam's Razor.
One Devil Fruit can grant eternal youth to a person.
You can infer that Haki would negate this, allowing anyone with Haki to remove age-based immortality from any character.
Which is a ridiculous extrapolation in my opinion and wouldn't be accepted.
We shouldn't just list abilities that we can headcanon into existence through Occam's Razor.
- 21,143
- 30,099
And let's look at the candidates.
The admirals are off the list, because we see Marco consistently heal from the admiral's injuries.
Mihawk is far from him.
Sengoku and Garp are next to Ace.
So the only candidates are vice admirals and below, who are all FODDER
- 1,744
- 1,167
Fodder marine soldiers>>Oldbeard>Marco
- 5,220
- 3,346
Marco's healing is based on his stamina, just because he can heal from their attacks at one point doesn't mean he can do so all the time, and he could have had internal injuries towards the end of the war.
Not sure why you're dodging the fact that we see the injury caused by Garp vanish after a short while which was neither near his forehead nor his neck, Garp didn't break his neck, nor did he negate his regen, he gave him a slight bruise that vanished after a brief moment, we literally see it.
- 29,892
- 25,063
You can be looking at an on-screen event and your interpretation of it can still be wrong or lead to unsupported conclusions elsewhere.
- 21,143
- 30,099
An age is not something that can be touched by Haki, so this is a bad example.
You can't punch someone's immortality, it's not tangible.
If I say you can breathe air does that mean that you can inhale air inside someone else's lungs?
It wouldn't be accepted because it doesn't make sense. The ability needs to make sense.
Marco was ready to fight Akainu again. He had stamina. And he healed himself towards the end of the war
Not sure why you forgot I dubbed it as an inconsistent mark which changed its placement on Marco's body.
- 21,143
- 30,099
Literally the most supported conclusion from every angle possible is that Garp, who is the only person who showed an injury having ANY EFFECT on his neck, was the reason of the neck bandage, which means he negated the regen since he would've healed.
Every single other argument is heavily flawed or just... unsupported headcanon.
- 1,744
- 1,167
Weren't you the very same person who was against this kind of logic?
- 29,892
- 25,063
What kind of logic? I don't think I've ever denied that a person's interpretation of an on-screen event can be wrong or lead to leaps in logic elsewhere that are unsupported, and that applies to me too.
- 21,143
- 30,099
Side A
Haki > Devil Fruits (stated several times)Haki negations have been seen outside of DFs (shown)
Garp punches Marco's face so hard his neck twists (shown)
No one else has affected Marco's neck (shown)
Marco would've healed his "superficial" injury if he could (assumption based on common sense and situation).
Haki > Regeneration (Sum of above)
Side B
Haki negations have not been seen outside of DFs (countered. They punched on a living fire creature and blocked out non DF poison)Someone else could've hurt Marco (unsupported, not shown)
Marco has been bruised and not healed (countered, we see him heal those and every single wound except Garp's neck attack)
Someone else could've given Marco a neck injury (unsupported, not shown)
Marco chooses which injuries to heal (unsupported)
Not all DF abilities are negated (unsupported)
Side A is based off of what's provided and we have 1 small assumption.
Side B is based off of full assumptions.
Like come on now
- 21,143
- 30,099
Possibly is, possibly isn't.
Someone sum up yall side with arguments I haven't seen yet.
- 1,744
- 1,167
Using unreliable assumptions such as things never presented to us, off-screen fights that never happened or mentioned in the manga/anime and headcanon than on-screen events.
Perhaps, you have already forgotten the Dressrosa Thread, and plenty of other threads you were so strongly against it? (why the sudden change of heart though? just a genuine question)
- 1,744
- 1,167
Elaborate why it's biased.
- 29,892
- 25,063
Gotta agree with Purgy here. You're not exactly presenting it from an objective stand-point.
Let's take a look at Cracker vs. Luffy for example.
With Haki, Cracker could overpower Luffy's Haki defenses and cut him, drawing blood from him.
Since Luffy stopped bleeding after a while and his cut healed over, Luffy managed to heal/regenerate from that. Outside of assumptions like "Luffy's Haki overpowered Cracker's Haki" the conclusion I take away from this is that Cracker's Haki did not negate Luffy's natural ability to heal/regenerate.
This kind of circumstance is the reason why I think it is nonsense to try and apply a solid "Regeneration Negation" as it is currently is on the Haki page.
- 5,220
- 3,346
Because he glossed over the actual arguments, which is expected, given that he'd obviously want to make his argument look better.
Though frankly, I've lost interest in this, we spent hours going in circles for essentially nothing
- 1,744
- 1,167
That's quite an accusation, you know. Besides, I do agree the whole back and forth is annoying. However, I still personally think, it doesn't make any sense to assume that Marco would fight anyone as strong as Garp off-screen when all the strong characters were occupied with some other things.
the only enemies left for him were literal fodders.
- 17,593
- 12,912
And after all this time you haven't sent or said anything that's not headcannon besides the SFX
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,088
- 2,154
what's the point so far? Can Haki be able to negate Regen or not?
- 21,143
- 30,099
I listed both sides of the arguments. I even edited it to add one I was missing. Then I brought the pros and cons for each side.
It only looks biased because one side is heavily downlooked, which is a consequence brought upon by bad arguments.
Everything stated from side B was opinionated, headcanon, or unsupported, which is unfortunately true.
My side looking good ≠ me being bias.
So essentially you want Oda to make it where 2 haki users are never allowed to regenerate wounds correct?
Cause if so then this is unrealistic as hell.
Let me sum up Marco.
Marco uses an external source to speed up the natural healing factor.
If you are harmed in a certain place by Haki, you negate that.
Not that you will never regen again, you just won't regen at the rate that Marco amps you towards, which is a ridiculously high rate.
If your hair was amped to regrow at a certain rate, and if I cut your hair off with haki, you won't regrow hair at an amped rate. You'll regrow it at a regular rate.
You're false equivalence lies in every type of pure natural regeneration not amped by anything, not amped by a healing factor, not amped by an external source, just the regular healing factor you gain as a child.
- 29,892
- 25,063
I don't want anything. I'm just interpreting what I'm reading in the manga; and Haki regularly creating injuries that can't be healed or regenerated is not something that I am seeing when I read the manga.
Then should it not be Limited Regeneration Negation?
- 21,143
- 30,099
It wouldn’t be limited, unless the definition of regeneration negation is “completely halts the creation of new cells” which is unrealistic. It stops amped healing factors. That’s regen neg
It’s regular, it just needs to be known how it works
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
I could not reply to the past messages since I guess it is may just start another circular argument.
But from the last few posts from KT, If haki does not negate natural healing process and not all artificial healing process(like mansherry who literally has the heal heal fruit) and the only thing it does is interfere with amps that can increase the rate of natural healing.
It should be "Limited Regeneration Negation" and it would be a case by case basis as most people with regen I know basically comes natural to them and they don't need amps from outside to increase the healing rate
But from the last few posts from KT, If haki does not negate natural healing process and not all artificial healing process(like mansherry who literally has the heal heal fruit) and the only thing it does is interfere with amps that can increase the rate of natural healing.
It should be "Limited Regeneration Negation" and it would be a case by case basis as most people with regen I know basically comes natural to them and they don't need amps from outside to increase the healing rate
- 21,143
- 30,099
A few examples.
Naruto Uzumaki, who most of us are familiar with, uses 9 Tails chakra to amp his healing factor, yet that's not his regular healing and that's while amped.
Haki would negate that.
Majin Buu's regeneration is his base regeneration which isn't amped. It's just... really good.
Haki wouldn't negate that.
Even though I disagree with Mansherry's "regeneration" which can heal trauma, inanimate objects, etc., this is pretty much how it would work.
Would it be limited?
- 29,892
- 25,063
From your examples, I believe so.
- 21,143
- 30,099
Alright
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,910
- 5,812
Yes
Yes
Well.if it is not limited it needs a note that states specifically what it does.
Edit: now that I think about it limited or not it still gets a note
- 10,489
- 9,248
THANK YOU. This was what I was trying to say earlier in the thread before it got swarmed by derails.
- 17,593
- 12,912
Boros has the same regen... Alot of characters Amp their regeneration... Like
Hulk, Boros, Meliodas, The Flash, Saber and many more
It should be limited... How is it limited regen if you still regenerate.... Actually nevermind I think you mean limited regen neg? Which I don't really agree with either... I mean does all regen neg permanently stop character from regenerating? Because I don't remember anyone that can do that...
Hulk, Boros, Meliodas, The Flash, Saber and many more
It should be limited... How is it limited regen if you still regenerate.... Actually nevermind I think you mean limited regen neg? Which I don't really agree with either... I mean does all regen neg permanently stop character from regenerating? Because I don't remember anyone that can do that...
What it says is on the regen page is what haki regen negates kinda does...
Last edited:
- 10,489
- 9,248
It would still be limited. Just as you can't equalize Haki, unless the power system is similar to Haki, Haki wouldn't just negate EVERY regen outside of it. It's case by case aka limited.
At least that's what I'm getting from this conclusion
Similar threads
