Armament Haki Changes

[KingTempest]

There are tho, that's the entire point of this thread

Okay so it is a case of art inconsistency?
He was shown to be hit on the cheeks, bruise was shown on the cheeks. Then next bruise on forehead?

This is a mark of blood which could've been wiped off his face in the same exact battle, and we've discussed in several other threads that Oda's small marks of blood are ridiculously inconsistent.

In one page, it's on his cheek.
On the exact next page, which is a few seconds later, it's on his forehead.

Yup

My bad, it was not head canon just misremembered.
So the point still is he can use haki and it would mean he never attacked Marco once with it?
So basically King would obviously know his haki would stop Marco wounds from regenerating but he didn't use haki cause of what explanation again?

I apologize for the heavy head canon accusations, it's just that on both sides it's so prevalent that I can mistake headcanon for misremembering.

King's not a swordsman. Infusing blades with haki is an advanced swordsman trick which we see with Zoro and Mihawk that it takes a lot of training.

Isn't it basic armament all that is needed to negate the said regeneration?
And queen fought Marco? No?

And where did you see this! Seriously now bigger assumptions the reason why Marco can regenerate is cause he overpowered king haki with his own haki??

Not really.
Marco has notable haki. They do not.

Kinda common knowledge superior haki rules supreme. Doffy and Luffy, Law and Yonko, Akainu and Commanders.
And we see Marco can infuse haki on his phoenix talons.

Most likely his superior haki stops them from cutting him permanently or for a long period of time.

 

[Damage3245]

Damage....... King's character profile literally states he has basic Busoshoku haki and basic kenbunshoku haki, if you have evidence that his busoshoku haki is that good please make a CTR.

That's not what I said.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Don't feel like responding to three people saying the same thing, so just gonna respond to Tempest

Marco had several offscreen confrontations, shown by the fact that he randomly appears with more/different injuries whenever we see him after a time gap.

Between being hit by Garp and Whitebeard having his heart attack he had an offscreen confrontation with Kizaru

Between being shot by Kizaru's lasers and Luffy using CoC Marco has multiple new injuries on his face, yet another offscreen encounter

Fought Akainu alongside Vista offscreen

Fought Akainu again alongside all the commanders, pretty much entirely off-screen.

We don't see Garp twist his neck, Marco's neck was fine, you're assuming it was twisted from the fact that it was turned slightly.

You failed to prove that Marco fought anyone on garp's level off-screen. Garp's canonically the only one character without resorting to cough "certain handcuffs" who hurt Marco on-screen. When an Admiral level Character such as Akainu and Kizaru couldn't hurt Marco, then who? Aokiji? nah. Anything else is headcanon.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Marco had several offscreen confrontations, shown by the fact that he randomly appears with more/different injuries whenever we see him after a time gap.

Between being hit by Garp and Whitebeard having his heart attack he had an offscreen confrontation with Kizaru

Between being shot by Kizaru's lasers and Luffy using CoC Marco has multiple new injuries on his face, yet another offscreen encounter

Fought Akainu alongside Vista offscreen

Fought Akainu again alongside all the commanders, pretty much entirely off-screen.

We don't see Garp twist his neck, Marco's neck was fine, you're assuming it was twisted from the fact that it was turned slightly.

Ok... But tell me... How would he still have not have regenarated himself?

What's the only thing we know off, that is the most effective countermeasure against devil fruit users? Haki.

 

[Purgy]

You failed to prove that Marco fought anyone on garp's level. off-screen Garp's canonically the only one character without resorting to cough "certain handcuffs". When an Admiral level Character such as Akainu and Kizaru couldn't hurt Marco, then who? Aokiji? nah. Anything else is headcanon.

Except we literally see Marco with new injuries on his face long after Garp punches him...

If you want to say a fodder caused them, fine, doesn't matter to me.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Except we literally see Marco with new injuries on his face long after Garp punches him...

Again, with whom?

 

[Purgy]

Again, with whom?

No idea, because it was offscreen as I said.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

No idea, because it was offscreen as I said.

Ok... But tell me... How would he still have not have regenarated himself?

What's the only thing we know off, that is the most effective countermeasure against devil fruit users? Haki.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

No idea, because it was offscreen as I said.

An Off-screen fight we have never heard of nor do we know it actually exist. That's the definition of headcanon with nothing to back up, you could claim Marco fought mihawk off-screen, so we should scale him to mihawk (as an example), you see i don't have a panel, scan or statement that suggest it.

 

[Purgy]

Ok... But tell me... How would he still have not have regenarated himself?

What's the only thing we know off, that is the most effective countermeasure against devil fruit users? Haki.

We don't know, that's why this is so vague and deserves a possibly at best, though being honest, I think even a possibly is too generous for the arguments presented here.

 

[KingTempest]

Marco had several offscreen confrontations, shown by the fact that he randomly appears with more/different injuries whenever we see him after a time gap.

End of the fight he had 1 injury on his head.

Between being hit by Garp and Whitebeard having his heart attack he had an offscreen confrontation with Kizaru

And Kizaru hadn't shown to give off that much damage outside of the lasers, via his statement.

Between being shot by Kizaru's lasers and Luffy using CoC Marco has multiple new injuries on his face, yet another offscreen encounter

He had seastone on which stopped his powers. When he took them off he healed them and he went to go fight Akainu and he had that same 1 injury from Garp.

Fought Akainu alongside Vista offscreen

This was for like a second and Akainu immediately went to go chase Luffy, which Marco blocked, then the page after, WB came

Fought Akainu again alongside all the commanders, pretty much entirely off-screen.

We can see when the fight ended that Marco was perfectly fine and he still had the same 1 bruise.

We don't see Garp twist his neck, Marco's neck was fine, you're assuming it was twisted from the fact that it was turned slightly.

Marco's head is facing his rear end. If you really don't think he twisted his neck, then idk

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

We don't know,

We do know because it's stated in the databook that no matter how many times he gets attacked, he'll regenerate. It also says that he can even regenerate against admiral lvl types of attacks.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What has everyone been arguing about for 4 pages?

 

[Purgy]

End of the fight he had 1 injury on his head.

And Kizaru hadn't shown to give off that much damage outside of the lasers, via his statement.

He had seastone on which stopped his powers. When he took them off he healed them and he went to go fight Akainu and he had that same 1 injury from Garp.

This was for like a second and Akainu immediately went to go chase Luffy, which Marco blocked, then the page after, WB came

We can see when the fight ended that Marco was perfectly fine and he still had the same 1 bruise.

Marco's head is facing his rear end. If you really don't think he twisted his neck, then idk

One visible injury, who's to say his neck didn't take damage that wasn't visible?

No idea what you mean with this point

Except he didn't, the mark on his cheek by Garp was gone almost immediately, we see a new mark near the top of his head, but that's not where Garp hit him, so...

Still happened

Again, who's to say Marco didn't take internal damage?

Marco didn't twist his neck, nothing indicates that except a slightly turned neck, he doesn't complain or express any issue after Garp punches him.

 

[KingTempest]

Again, with whom?

The only time is here when he has seastone on

Then he took it off

Then he healed up all the damage except the ones we can't see

 

[Eminiteable]

Why is King being used as an antifeat for haki Regen negation? This was brought up two pages ago that he hasn't shown the proficiency to imbue his blade with haki.


And assuming he does via showing hardening on his sword that still doesn't mean the instance when he cut Marco's wing is an antifeat because he clearly didn't use haki there.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

What has everyone been arguing about for 4 pages?

They are saying something else could've damaged Marco from not regenerating... OFFSCREEN and when it states this in the vivrecard

He is a "juvenile beast," a rarer animal species than the natural ones, and can regenerate no matter how many times he is attacked.

The whole body was enveloped in blue flames.
regenerate instantly! It is an ability that allows you to face the attacks of the general class head on!

 

[PrinceofPein]

Give me one then.

Let's see him running out of stamina?
As it was recently shown his healing depends heavily on his stamina

Yup

I apologize for the heavy head canon accusations, it's just that on both sides it's so prevalent that I can mistake headcanon for misremembering.

No problem happens to the best of us

King's not a swordsman. Infusing blades with haki is an advanced swordsman trick which we see with Zoro and Mihawk that it takes a lot of training.

Well that's fair and true

Kinda common knowledge superior haki rules supreme

. Doffy and Luffy,

Can't really remember this part

Law and Yonko,

Well this has always been a downside of law ability as stated and shown many times, unless you think smoker has better haki than doffy?
Although that may be a bad example, my point is anyone a bit proficient in haki can withstand law ability

Akainu and Commanders.

Vista and Marco still hurt akainu as he was visibly disgusted and in pain.

Most likely his superior haki stops them from cutting him permanently or for a long period of time.

Things like "most likely" should gain "possibly"
But what I would like to bring up is Marco scared of an arrow from perospero. Perospero is a basic armament haki user (if I read his vivre card right, my Japanese is not that good)
But Marco was scared of getting hit by him, so this superior haki also does have his own antifeat

 

[KingTempest]

The funny part is that we're arguing events that happened off screen.

It's offscreen so it's just a ridiculously large assumption in itself.

Garp hurting him is based on what we're given. Anything else is a baseless assumption that anyone (99% of the marines are below Garp, maybe all of them) can deal damage to Marco

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Not strict btw

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Let's see him running out of stamina?
As it was recently shown his healing depends heavily on his stamina

Going against the creator

He is a "juvenile beast," a rarer animal species than the natural ones, and can regenerate no matter how many times he is attacked.

 

[Purgy]

The funny part is that we're arguing events that happened off screen.

It's offscreen so it's just a ridiculously large assumption in itself.

Garp hurting him is based on what we're given. Anything else is a baseless assumption that anyone (99% of the marines are below Garp, maybe all of them) can deal damage to Marco

That's the thing, Marco clearly had several off-screen encounters, so to say Garp had to have been the one to cause those injuries when the only injury we see Garp cause is healed almost immediately, is probably the most headcanon argument here.

 

[Damage3245]

He is a "juvenile beast," a rarer animal species than the natural ones, and can regenerate no matter how many times he is attacked.

A bit funny that it doesn't say "and can regenerate no matter how many times he is attacked unless he is attacked with Haki."

 

[RazumaHiroki]

The funny part is that we're arguing events that happened off screen.

It's offscreen so it's just a ridiculously large assumption in itself.

Garp hurting him is based on what we're given. Anything else is a baseless assumption that anyone (99% of the marines are below Garp, maybe all of them) can deal damage to Marco

The most ironic part is our points are considered as "headcanon" despite, we are actually using on-screen events,

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

What has everyone been arguing about for 4 pages?

If haki can really negate regen or not

 

[RazumaHiroki]

That's the thing, Marco clearly had several off-screen encounters, so to say Garp had to have been the one to cause those injuries when the only injury we see Garp cause is healed almost immediately, is probably the most headcanon argument here.

I asked you with whom he fought off-screen who's on Garp's level. Like it's totally Oda's style to make Marco fight someone off-screen without mentioning the fight at least once.

 

[KingTempest]

No problem happens to the best of us

Well that's fair and true

Thanks for the wholesomeness

Can't really remember this part

Doffy hurt Luffy a ridiculous amount of times with Koka
Luffy transforms into G4th, which Law says uses a ridiculous amount of Haki
Doffy kicks him and he's still rubber.

Well this has always been a downside of law ability as stated and shown many times, unless you think smoker has better haki than doffy?

Nah, we gave Law 2 keys because of events like this.

Although that may be a bad example, my point is anyone a bit proficient in haki can withstand law ability

Tashigi's a proficient swordsman who can imbue haki in her sword, can't withstand Law's ability.

Vista and Marco still hurt akainu as he was visibly disgusted and in pain.

Nah, we see that he's surprised they used Haki on him, but his body is still magma.

Things like "most likely" should gain "possibly"

The most likely was directed towards the King point, not the other point w/ Garp.

But what I would like to bring up is Marco scared of an arrow from perospero. Perospero is a basic armament haki user (if I read his vivre card right, my Japanese is not that good)
But Marco was scared of getting hit by him, so this superior haki also does have his own antifeat

Big Mom was holding him by his neck. That has a huge part to play.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

A bit funny that it doesn't say "and can regenerate no matter how many times he is attacked unless he is attacked with Haki."

It doesn't need to when it's stated Haki is the most effective countermeasure against devil fruit users

 

[Damage3245]

It doesn't need to when it's stated Haki is the most effective countermeasure against devil fruit users

"Most effective" =/= Stop every single Devil Fruit related ability.

And if the reason why Haki works against Marco like this is because his healing is Devil Fruit-based, then why would we assume it could work against a character's natural passive regeneration?

 

[KingTempest]

A bit funny that it doesn't say "and can regenerate no matter how many times he is attacked unless he is attacked with Haki."

Fortunately, Rayleigh handles that for us

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

well haki can negate regen of logia's by turning their bodies intangible. So I guess regen negation doesn't actually exist? Or is there a scene of someone negging marco's regeneration?

 

[Damage3245]

well haki can negate regen of logia's by turning their bodies intangible. So I guess regen negation doesn't actually exist? Or is there a scene of someone negging marco's regeneration?

Haki doesn't negate Logia regen. It bypasses their intangibility and lets you hit the solid user.

 

[KingTempest]

"Most effective" =/= Stop every single Devil Fruit related ability.

And if the reason why Haki works against Marco like this is because his healing is Devil Fruit-based, then why would we assume it could work against a character's natural passive regeneration?

it enhances your natural healing.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

That's the thing, Marco clearly had several off-screen encounters, so to say Garp had to have been the one to cause those injuries when the only injury we see Garp cause is healed almost immediately, is probably the most headcanon argument here.

Why would their arguments would be the most headcanon if the ones you're stating are OFF SCREEN and is full of assumptions?

 

[Purgy]

Why would their arguments would be the most headcanon if the ones you're stating are OFF SCREEN and is full of assumptions?

This is why you don't randomly interject into a discussion you haven't read

The point of bringing up Marco's off-screen fights was to convey that anyone could have caused those injuries that required bandages, not just Garp.

That isn't an assumption, it's literally the truth, we visibly see Marco sustain injuries from people other than Garp, hell, the injury Garp did inflict is gone shortly after.

 

[Damage3245]

it enhances your natural healing.

And? We don't know what the enhanced level of healing rate is. Nowhere is it implied that Haki reduces this "enhanced level of healing".

Also, even if it did work on a Devil Fruit-boosted level of healing, why would it work against a non-boosted level of healing?

 

[KingTempest]

And? We don't know what the enhanced level of healing rate is. Nowhere is it implied that Haki reduces this "enhanced level of healing".

Fortunately, Rayleigh handles that for us

It's done by a devil fruit.
Haki counters it.

 

[Damage3245]

It's done by a devil fruit.
Haki counters it.

So you're saying it wouldn't work against non-Devil Fruit healing then?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Flame of Regeneration," which increases the speed of regeneration, is effective not only for the ability holder but also for others!

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

This is why you don't randomly interject into a discussion you haven't read

The point of bringing up Marco's off-screen fights was to convey that anyone could have caused those injuries that required bandages, not just Garp.

That isn't an assumption, it's literally the truth, we visibly see Marco sustain injuries from people other than Garp, hell, the injury Garp did inflict is gone shortly after.

I actually read the thread and it would be headcanon to say some random fodder marines just somehow manage to hurt marco without using haki or etc.