Arceus Vs Sora: Smurf Edition

[Bobsican]

Arceus apparently is being upgraded later, so I better do this while I can, I'm bored : P

Both at 2-B, speed equalized

Sora

Arceus

 

[Smashtwig]

What does Sora even have that makes this a debate first off?

 

[Bobsican]

5-D passive fate manip that prevents permanent death/incap, type 1 conceptual and type 2 info EE, Mid-Godly Regen Negation, Void Manip, High-Godly type 8 immortality, and most of his powers are also enhanced by type 1 CM and type 2 Info Manip.

 

[Smashtwig]

The first thing that I think of is Arceus just banishing him into the Distortion World where he fights and beats Giratina somehow, can Sora get out of that? If I recall even chars with dimension hopping / portals can't get out of there

 

[Bobsican]

Sora has Sealing Negation, and can travel across multiple Low 1-C spaces, and that also extends to his fate manip.

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Love the way you used the Sprites like a Pokemon battle lol
I'll wait to see where the debate leads

 

[Sniper670]

5-D passive fate manip that prevents permanent death/incap, type 1 conceptual and type 2 info EE, Mid-Godly Regen Negation, Void Manip, High-Godly type 8 immortality, and most of his powers are also enhanced by type 1 CM and type 2 Info Manip.

What makes Kairi fate manipulation 5D?

Type 1 concept EE gets negged by the plates scaling above tbe creation trio

Mid Godly that's fine. If any of Sora's attacks will even hit him at all


Void manipulation is meaningless here scaling off the CT being unaffected by dimensional Erasure .

High Godly is cool. Arceus reverses time that also includes age hax that reverses as well as negates your powers and abilities. Reactive Devolution. You can't regen if you're reverted to the time you didn't have it to begin with.

Who gave most of his powers enhanced CM?

Anyway. Destiny Bond is something Dynamax Pokémon are unaffected by, which is fate hax that links fate and inflicts onto others what they inflict in him. So prove to me that fate hax works on a 5D level. Otherwise Arceus just beats Sora to death. Blitzes him with Extreme Speed and just
1. Erase his memories scaling off Uxie
2. Killing him with a look scaling off Mimikyu
3. Empathic hax, scaling off Malamar. He simply drains his willpower
4. Madness hax type 2, and type 3 from illusions that cause internal and external damage as well as drive you insane scaling off Hisuian Zoroark
5. Danmaku soul removal plus life force absorption scaling off Calyrex
6.Telekinesis twists Sora, smash him around like a Toy, tear him apart. And this acts on a cellular level
7. Body Puppetry via instruct and psychic powers which forces him to use his attacks elsewhere, or even on himself if he wants

 

[Sniper670]

Sora has Sealing Negation, and can travel across multiple Low 1-C spaces, and that also extends to his fate manip

Arceus has power absorption, which Sora has 0 resistances to . Arceus absorbs his powers scaling above humans beings able to seal Hoopa's power with the power he gave them

5D fate manipulation scans.

 

[Bobsican]

What makes Kairi fate manipulation 5D?

It prevented Kairi from going outside the main 5D cosmology, more information here.

Type 1 concept EE gets negged by the plates scaling above tbe creation trio

Cool, Sora has 27 layers on that, and a Resistance Negation layer on that as well, and then there's Arceus not having an answer to the type 2 info manip on top of it, so that'd render it unusable here anyways.

Mid Godly that's fine. If any of Sora's attacks will even hit him at all

Arceus' immunities rely on the attack taken having a type, which we only apply here for other verses to Water, Fire, Grass, Electric, Ice, Rock, Ground and Poison. I'm sure I've also talked with you before on how Struggle, a typeless move, ignores Wonder Guard for instance, so it'd be more than fair to claim that such type-based "immunities" would be mostly useless here, Sora has already dealt with enemies that are unfazed by elemental attacks.

Also lol NLF as he can summon characters with Low 1-C AP, notably including Stitch, who provides Sora with a barrier that protects him from projectiles while also providing support outside the fourth wall, I'd mention Drive Forms but they're banned here as both combatants are 2-B here, AFAIK.

Void manipulation is meaningless here scaling off the CT being unaffected by dimensional Erasure .

Also see the above.

High Godly is cool. Arceus reverses time that also includes age hax that reverses as well as negates your powers and abilities. Reactive Devolution. You can't regen if you're reverted to the time you didn't have it to begin with.

Sora's High-Godly comes from Kairi, and I'm sure Arceus lacks the range to reach other Low 1-C structures to affect her anyways.

Who gave most of his powers enhanced CM?

Himself? A Keyblade comes from the user's heart, which in itself can erradicate the Heartless to free the heart (concept, in simple terms) it has stolen with any attack.

Anyway. Destiny Bond is something Dynamax Pokémon are unaffected by, which is fate hax that links fate and inflicts onto others what they inflict in him. So prove to me that fate hax works on a 5D level. Otherwise Arceus just beats Sora to death.

See the above

Blitzes him with Extreme Speed

Sora is one of the most skilled characters on the site, he has dealt with far worse than a mere fast physical tackle, such as having to deal with this

and just
1. Erase his memories scaling off Uxie

Memories are bound to the "heart", and Arceus lacks type 2 information manip (which also makes it up), so it won't work

2. Killing him with a look scaling off Mimikyu

Sora resists, it's a standard KH darkness power, which he can even apply to Arceus with Anti Form

3. Empathic hax, scaling off Malamar. He simply drains his willpower

Not on a conceptual and (before you bring up Mesprit) type 2 info level, a mind is bound to the user's "heart", also lol Supernatural Willpower

4. Madness hax type 2, and type 3 from illusions that cause internal and external damage as well as drive you insane scaling off Hisuian Zoroark

See the Mimikyu part above, same applies

5. Danmaku soul removal plus life force absorption scaling off Calyrex

Sora has dealt with a danmaku at point blank before, and he has already dealt with a pulling force before, also lol High-Godly and the before-mentioned fate manip.

6.Telekinesis twists Sora, smash him around like a Toy, tear him apart. And this acts on a cellular level

Fate Manip and High-Godly, again.

7. Body Puppetry via instruct and psychic powers which forces him to use his attacks elsewhere, or even on himself if he wants

Also lol fate manip.

Arceus has power absorption, which Sora has 0 resistances to . Arceus absorbs his powers scaling above humans beings able to seal Hoopa's power with the power he gave them

5D fate manipulation scans.

Power Absorption that requires feats to confirm it can work particularly on Sealing Negation, which Arceus can't disrupt as he lacks type 2 info manip to alter the source of it (Sora's heart).

See the scans in the first part of this post.

 

[ThanatosX]

I want to say that as long as they start off with their 2-B key, Sora can use Drive Form to reach an higher tier since this is for the smurf list, or at least I believe so, since the reason why Magi's characters are so high in the Low 1-C list is because they can turn into 1-B.

 

[Everything12]

Arceus has it's whole Omnipresent Large Size Abstract Existence thing while Sora's range is

Range: Standard melee range, Extended melee range with the wood sword | Extended melee range, Tens of meters with Keyblade telepathy and with regular melee, Planetary with magic, Interdimensional with Keyholes (Sora can open portals to travel from reaching other worlds (universes), to reaching the other multiverse that is the Realm of Darkness and the Final World)

 

[Ikelaggan]

Yo, I'm looking at acreus's acausality and it's weirdly scuffed. Mostly it's says type 1 but also has a huge chunk of giratina's type 4 just laying right in there.

 

[Everything12]

Yo, I'm looking at acreus's acausality and it's weirdly scuffed. Mostly it's says type 1 but also has a huge chunk of giratina's type 4 just laying right in there.

Acausality (Types 1. Unaffected by changes in history unless he allows them and 4. Giratina is an aspect of Arceus...

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'm pretty sure arceus in terms of conceptual Manip kinda hard neges given that one of the creation trio embodies the concept of nothingness, metal body pretty much negates any damage getting thrown at him, so high-Godly is getting thrashed and unless your thrown some SMT sounding almighty invulnerability negation then getting damage on him is pretty slim. Also if his density bond can slap any of the creation trio then the range on sora's type 8 doesn't matter if it's slapping beings with type 4 Acausality around.

 

[ThanatosX]

I am neutral for this fight, but I will say that Sora's Conceptual Manipulation have 27 layers, with one being a layer of Resistence Negation. So Sora's Conceptual Manipulation, both in offense and in defense, is higher than Arceus'.
Metal body isn't an important factor since that would only negates physical damages, and I don't see how Arceus would trash High Godly since he doesn't have High Godly Negation.
Also, Sora's range is extremely outdate, his Dimensional Travel makes him able to travel to Low 1-C realms, and Sora is able to become Low 1-C in AP thanks to Drive Forms (even thought the revision has not been applied at the moment, which is why I would have waited to make this thread since it might lead to some misunderstandings).
Thought, I will stay neutral for now.

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'd put this thread in a hard can of actually wait until actual revisions go fully through cause sora doesn't even have conceptual Manipulation on his page yet let alone any of those "27 layers".

 

[ThanatosX]

I'd put this thread in a hard can of actually wait until actual revisions go fully through cause sora doesn't even have conceptual Manipulation on his page yet let alone any of those "27 layers".

The Conceptual Manipulation is for the Keyblade (his weapon) and is in the Keyblade page. And the 27 layers has been accepted in a separate thread that was already applied.

 

[Ikelaggan]

The Conceptual Manipulation is for the Keyblade (his weapon) and is in the Keyblade page. And the 27 layers has been accepted in a separate thread that was already applied.

I don't see how stacking layers makes it more fundamental than effecting conceptual nonexistence.

 

[ThanatosX]

I don't see how stacking layers makes it more fundamental than effecting conceptual nonexistence.

Affecting Conceptual non-existence isn't really measurable, and layers, especially Resistence Negation, are extremely important when talking about CM Type 1.
I want to add that the Keyblade is also able to affect Nobody, conceptually nonexistent beings, without any problem.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Affecting Conceptual non-existence isn't really measurable, and layers, especially Resistence Negation, are extremely important when talking about CM Type 1.
I want to add that the Keyblade is also able to affect Nobody, conceptually nonexistent beings, without any problem.

Adding layers on beating up conceptual nonexistent beings vs effecting the very embodying concept is like adding 27 layers of atomic resistance and saying it's more fundamental than quantum manip. I see sora beating conceptual nonexistent beings with those layers not beating up the entire concept of nonexistence itself.

 

[Sniper670]

It prevented Kairi from going outside the main 5D cosmology, more information here

That's not 5D fate manipulation. Kairi is 3D.

Cool, Sora has 27 layers on that, and a Resistance Negation layer on that as well, and then there's Arceus not having an answer to the type 2 info manip on top of it, so that'd render it unusable here anyways.

On what attacks exactly?

Arceus TKs him beats him to pulp.

No resistance to Telekinesis means you're just floating helplessnessly around

Arceus' immunities rely on the attack taken having a type, which we only apply here for other verses to Water, Fire, Grass, Electric, Ice, Rock, Ground and Poison. I'm sure I've also talked with you before on how Struggle, a typeless move, ignores Wonder Guard for instance, so it'd be more than fair to claim that such type-based "immunities" would be mostly useless here, Sora has already dealt with enemies that are unfazed by elemental attacks.

It does not. It negates the effects of attacks. Going by all other sources beyond the game mechanics nature of the games. Its even in TCG, it negates effects of attacks. And Pokémon encompasses every single hax in Sora's verse and more

Arceus can erase the Concept of Spirit here and kill Sora

Also lol NLF as he can summon characters with Low 1-C AP, notably including Stitch, who provides Sora with a barrier that protects him from projectiles while also providing support outside the fourth wall, I'd mention Drive Forms but they're banned here as both combatants are 2-B here, AFAIK.

And which part of it makes it low 1C.
You're assuming the barrier is low 1C.

Iirc you need proof that the barrier is low 1C.

Of course, otherwise the Heart in Pokémon sits on the verse and the match is over

Also see the above.

Sora's High-Godly comes from Kairi, and I'm sure Arceus lacks the range to reach other Low 1-C structures to affect her anyways.

He can. Arceus Realm is low 1C and he can cross them like it's nothing.

High Godly. Arceus reverts him to the time he didn't have High Godly and he dies

Himself? A Keyblade comes from the user's heart, which in itself can erradicate the Heartless to free the heart (concept, in simple terms) it has stolen with any attack.

Good. Arceus erases heart as the CT could do that just fine.

See the above

Sora is one of the most skilled characters on the site, he has dealt with far worse than a mere fast physical tackle, such as having to deal with this

Cool. If only Sora can land a single hit at all because Psychic attacks precog >>>> Your skills.

Skills? You mean which, because a lot of Pokémon are indeed skilled.

Memories are bound to the "heart", and Arceus lacks type 2 information manip (which also makes it up), so it won't work

Lol. I fail to see a single description of heart that makes it different from the Heart in Pokémon.

Sora resists, it's a standard KH darkness power, which he can even apply to Arceus with Anti Form

He doesn't. Send proof of Death hax resistance

Not on a conceptual and (before you bring up Mesprit) type 2 info level, a mind is bound to the user's "heart", also lol Supernatural Willpower

Nope. You're yet to prove how you'd need it on a conceptual level to do anything

He looks at him, gets his memories erased.

See the Mimikyu part above, same applies

It does not. It's death hax. You see him, you die

Sora has dealt with a danmaku at point blank before, and he has already dealt with a pulling force before, also lol High-Godly and the before-mentioned fate manip.

Cool?

So sora passively dies and dies and dies and dies.

While Arceus reverses time to the part he didn't have high godly

Fate Manip and High-Godly, again.

Fate manipulation is not 5D unless it can steer the fate of 5D beings, not 3D characters with low 1C ap

Also lol fate manip.

Gets negged by Acausality

Power Absorption that requires feats to confirm it can work particularly on Sealing Negation, which Arceus can't disrupt as he lacks type 2 info manip to alter the source of it (Sora's heart).

Power absorption that works on a conceptual level by asborbing the essence of your hax doesn't care about whether it's Info 2 or not, as both work on a fundamental level. So he absorbs

See the scans in the first part of this post.

 

[Sniper670]

The Conceptual Manipulation is for the Keyblade (his weapon) and is in the Keyblade page. And the 27 layers has been accepted in a separate thread that was already applied.

That's just for 0 cards, not all the other cards

Sora passively misses all his attacks



For a bit more context, this is Pokémon Conquest.


For as long as you don't Link with Arceus, all your attacks will miss, and nothing you can do will affect him because of "Omnipotent". It doesn't care about whether you boost your accuracy or not or what ability or moves you possess to ignore abilities. It will miss.

 

[ThanatosX]

Adding layers on beating up conceptual nonexistent beings vs effecting the very embodying concept is like adding 27 layers of atomic resistance and saying it's more fundamental than quantum manip. I see sora beating conceptual nonexistent beings with those layers not beating up the entire concept of nonexistence itself.

That's how it works. Beating the concept of nonexistence is just NPI against AE Type 1 and NEP, it doesn't affect the layers of CM Type 1.
This will be my final comment on the argument considering that's how it's treated in our standards, and as such further discussion would be useless.

 

[ThanatosX]

That's just for 0 cards, not all the other cards

Sora passively misses all his attacks

I am just saying what was accepted, nothing else. You can talk to Bob for more details since he is the one that made the CRT, but it was accepted to be 27 layers.

 

[Ikelaggan]

That's how it works. Beating the concept of nonexistence is just NPI against AE Type 1 and NEP

Doesn't really count as any of that if your beating them with the CM 1 you used to create them with.

it doesn't affect the layers of CM Type 1.

Then I must be pretty stupid to think effecting the very concept itself is more fundamental than beings who participate in the concept.

 

[ThanatosX]

Doesn't really count as any of that if your beating them with the CM 1 you used to create them with.

Then I must be pretty stupid to think effecting the very concept itself is more fundamental than beings who participate in the concept.

Affecting a concept is just NPI against AE Type 1. Last thing I will say for real this time.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Affecting a concept is just NPI against AE Type 1. Last thing I will say for real this time.

So Conceptual Manipulation as a concept doesn't exist then. Got it. ️

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Oh, so we're doing this before Arceus ascends to 6-D? What's the point?
Kinda leaning towards Sora but I'm not voting yet.

 

[Ikelaggan]

That's just for 0 cards, not all the other cards

Sora passively misses all his attacks



For a bit more context, this is Pokémon Conquest.


For as long as you don't Link with Arceus, all your attacks will miss, and nothing you can do will affect him because of "Omnipotent". It doesn't care about whether you boost your accuracy or not or what ability or moves you possess to ignore abilities. It will miss.

I'm voting for arceus pulling a sans on steroids.

 

[Smashtwig]

I'm pretty sure arceus in terms of conceptual Manip kinda hard neges given that one of the creation trio embodies the concept of nothingness, metal body pretty much negates any damage getting thrown at him, so high-Godly is getting thrashed and unless your thrown some SMT sounding almighty invulnerability negation then getting damage on him is pretty slim. Also if his density bond can slap any of the creation trio then the range on sora's type 8 doesn't matter if it's slapping beings with type 4 Acausality around.

My man pulled out the 10 year old Pokémon card from the drawer lol

 

[Everything12]

My man pulled out the 10 year old Pokémon from the drawer lol

Gen IV is over ten years old.

 

[Smashtwig]

Damn I’m really old wtf


Also Extreme Speed isn’t just a tackle, it’s fast, skill can’t do much for you if you’re being blitzed

 

[Ikelaggan]

My man pulled out the 10 year old Pokémon from the drawer lol

Man I wish that was my card, cause that card would of been put on market especially with how old it looks.

 

[Ego]

I think Arceus would duke out slam Sora passively with it's Acasuality 4 that's higher than Giratina

 

[Bobsican]

Arceus has it's whole Omnipresent Large Size Abstract Existence thing while Sora's range is

I can make the exact same argument I did in the Giratina thread of Sora just negating the capability of Arceus making another avatar, at least in a combat applicable timeframe, also lol above baseline Low 1-C sealing.

I'm pretty sure arceus in terms of conceptual Manip kinda hard neges given that one of the creation trio embodies the concept of nothingness, metal body pretty much negates any damage getting thrown at him, so high-Godly is getting thrashed and unless your thrown some SMT sounding almighty invulnerability negation then getting damage on him is pretty slim. Also if his density bond can slap any of the creation trio then the range on sora's type 8 doesn't matter if it's slapping beings with type 4 Acausality around.

I'm sure Arceus doesn't use DBond in character (it's technically a thing he has, but it's not used by him on-screen or similar, and so it has no feats of even affecting tier 2s), even so, DBond would just make it a tie at most considering its generally portrayed as making the one that KOs the user also faint, of note is that the move can't be used consecutively, so Arceus can't spam it either.

That's not 5D fate manipulation. Kairi is 3D.

Such fate manip also collaborated on Sora exiting the Realm of Darkness, which is a parallel 5-D structure to (and outside of) the Ocean Between (The Realm of Light is just the name of the main region of it, the Realm Between is just a closer part of it to the Realm of Darkness)

Sora and Riku are trapped in the Realm of Darkness, but the bond between them and Kairi opens the door to the light

On what attacks exactly?

All of them, all attacks Sora could do with the cards in CoM required cards, and from there he just upscales in later games.

Arceus TKs him beats him to pulp.

No resistance to Telekinesis means you're just floating helplessnessly around

Second Chance and Once More still kick in (Low 1-C level) and Sora finds an opening to enter Final Form and do something like this (he upscales from this later on).

It does not. It negates the effects of attacks. Going by all other sources beyond the game mechanics nature of the games. Its even in TCG, it negates effects of attacks. And Pokémon encompasses every single hax in Sora's verse and more

Not type 2 info manip, again, it's even noted in the page to be more fundamental than type 1, and so per site standards that wouldn't work here.
And it'd be a NLF to claim it applies to anything whatsoever, notably including actual Low 1-C AP and Low 1-C abilities that don't exist in the setting (Arceus has never fought in-verse someone truly at his level).

Arceus can erase the Concept of Spirit here and kill Sora

No type 2 info to do that, gg.

And which part of it makes it low 1C.
You're assuming the barrier is low 1C.

Iirc you need proof that the barrier is low 1C.

It works on stuff thrown by the Lingering Will, which is Low 1-C

Of course, otherwise the Heart in Pokémon sits on the verse and the match is over

Oh, so we're doing this before Arceus ascends to 6-D? What's the point?
Kinda leaning towards Sora but I'm not voting yet.

I mean, that'd be fair game here, but I'm doing this match in advance as tier 1 is generally a dead end of matches, so I wanted to do this to have some fun while I could

He can. Arceus Realm is low 1C and he can cross them like it's nothing.

High Godly. Arceus reverts him to the time he didn't have High Godly and he dies

Arceus' precognitive abilities and the likes have no feats of reaching tier 1 levels, so he'd be unaware on how to stop Sora from reviving.

Good. Arceus erases heart as the CT could do that just fine.

No type 2 info manip to actually do that, so not really.

Cool. If only Sora can land a single hit at all because Psychic attacks precog >>>> Your skills.

Skills? You mean which, because a lot of Pokémon are indeed skilled.

Mastering all martial arts doesn't tell me much without showings of how good that's in practice, especially with Arceus' physiology in relation to the most skilled Pokémon rendering most of that information kinda useless out of being too different to be even practical.

Sora has Low 1-C trapping with Chicken Little, Magnega is also fair game here as it also works from type 1 CM and type 2 info, which works even on characters that can teleport.

Lol. I fail to see a single description of heart that makes it different from the Heart in Pokémon.

Notably it also is made of type 2 information, which the Pokémon series lacks as a whole.

He doesn't. Send proof of Death hax resistance

• Death Manipulation, Absorption, KH Darkness Manipulation (Can take hits from Heartless, which which passively kill and absorb things around them with darkness, Ventus' heart protected Sora from the darkness within his dreams)

Please read Sora's page.

Nope. You're yet to prove how you'd need it on a conceptual level to do anything

He looks at him, gets his memories erased.

Because the memories are directly tied to a heart, and so you'd need to disrupt a heart to do anything like that in the first place.

Memories are a vital component of a heart[4], significant disruption of them can destroy a heart.

Read this completely please

It does not. It's death hax. You see him, you die

As said before, he resists.

Cool?

So sora passively dies and dies and dies and dies.

While Arceus reverses time to the part he didn't have high godly

Fate manipulation is not 5D unless it can steer the fate of 5D beings, not 3D characters with low 1C ap

Gets negged by Acausality

Arceus has to trigger it first as it isn't just passiving everything in the verse as it goes around, and so the actually passive fate manip just prevents those abilities.

As said before, it could reach even outside a 5-D space to another one at that level, so it totally has the range to work here.

Power absorption that works on a conceptual level by asborbing the essence of your hax doesn't care about whether it's Info 2 or not, as both work on a fundamental level. So he absorbs

It matters when not only Sora resists Type 1 CM on a 5D level, his own concept is also tier to type 2 info, which is more fundamental overall per definition as heavily implied in the Info Manip page on the site.

Damn I’m really old wtf


Also Extreme Speed isn’t just a tackle, it’s fast, skill can’t do much for you if you’re being blitzed

I mean, Gen IV already got remakes, it's that old, I know how you feel : V

An unquantificable speed increase that even Pokémon that are relative to each other can react to, yeah no.

I think Arceus would duke out slam Sora passively with it's Acasuality 4 that's higher than Giratina

Type 4 acausality that caps at tier 2, smurfery says no

 

[TheKingStrategist13]

Arceus can erase the Concept of Spirit here and kill Sora

Sora is higher in layers as accepted in a thread and has a layer of Resistance. Arceus does not erase Sora's Concept of Spirit here.

And which part of it makes it low 1C.
You're assuming the barrier is low 1C.

Iirc you need proof that the barrier is low 1C.

It's a barrier which can protect against characters who scale to Low 1C. I don't see what's so hard to understand about it?

He can. Arceus Realm is low 1C and he can cross them like it's nothing.

High Godly. Arceus reverts him to the time he didn't have High Godly and he dies

And can you present where that is accepted?

Sora has High Godly in each of his Key's. It is solely reliant on another Character, so regardless of what age you put him, he will have that High Godly.

Good. Arceus erases heart as the CT could do that just fine.

The Term Heart for KH =/= The Term Heart for other verses. Just because the CT can erase a Heart from Pokemon means nothing here. KH's Term for a Heart comes with multiple Passive Hax and Resistances. It's almost like you didn't bother to read the appropriate related Articles to Sora before making your argument.

Cool. If only Sora can land a single hit at all because Psychic attacks precog >>>> Your skills.

When both fighters have equalized speed, and Sora has Instinctive Reaction's and Genius level Intellect to help him better react to Arceus's dodging, I'm doubting Arceus manages to avoid literally every single attack, Precog isn't just a instant Get out of Jail free card that let's you avoid everything, especially with someone who show's the insane degree of Skill that Sora has (Not to mention the Whole Jimminy's Journal Conundrum of a Argument, Bob should know what I'm referring to.)

Skills? You mean which, because a lot of Pokémon are indeed skilled.

Not a argument. Prove how skilled Arceus is, Sora already has a whole section of a thread that show's the Length of his skill.

Lol. I fail to see a single description of heart that makes it different from the Heart in Pokémon.

Here, a Link to the KH Heart's Page. Unless you can provide evidence accepted by the wiki of Pokemon having the things listed here, than a Heart in Pokemon cannot be applied here.

He doesn't. Send proof of Death hax resistance

Look at his page, again. In literally the first key, he has it.

I would continue with the points I can address, but as of this moment Bob has sent something while I was typing this up, and I am certain he address's each point excellently, and perhaps even better than I can.

 

[The_Pink_God]

Hold on, when did Sora gained 5-D shit? And what even in KH is 5-D?

 

[Bobsican]

Also, obligatory mention that Judgment clashing with Ragnarok is something I can't help but think of, not that it particularly matter match-up wise, but the idea is a bit cool.

Hold on, when did Sora gained 5-D shit? And what even in KH is 5-D?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/kingdom-hearts-re-vising-the-cosmology.148047/

 

[Ikelaggan]

Porygon (Pokémon) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Porygon's existence is fundamentally made out of type 2 information and self-evidently would get deleted by the creation trio let alone arceus. So type 2 info is fundamentally below anything conceptual in pokemon.

 

[Sniper670]

I can make the exact same argument I did in the Giratina thread of Sora just negating the capability of Arceus making another avatar, at least in a combat applicable timeframe, also lol above baseline Low 1-C sealing.

If only the attack will hit because "Omnipotent"

I'm sure Arceus doesn't use DBond in character (it's technically a thing he has, but it's not used by him on-screen or similar, and so it has no feats of even affecting tier 2s), even so, DBond would just make it a tie at most considering its generally portrayed as making the one that KOs the user also faint, of note is that the move can't be used consecutively, so Arceus can't spam it either.

We've never seen what Arceus would do in character, so there's absolutely no reason to assume he wouldn't use it couple that with the various precogs, vision and his personal Cosmic Awareness and I see why he wouldn't go for the W

Such fate manip also collaborated on Sora exiting the Realm of Darkness, which is a parallel 5-D structure to (and outside of) the Ocean Between (The Realm of Light is just the name of the main region of it, the Realm Between is just a closer part of it to the Realm of Darkness)

That's not 5D. Sora is 3D. Manipulating the fate of a 3D character is not 5D. Show me where it controlled the fate of a 5D being. Then it becomes 5D

All of them, all attacks Sora could do with the cards in CoM required cards, and from there he just upscales in later games.

"Omnipotent"

You missed

Second Chance and Once More still kick in (Low 1-C level) and Sora finds an opening to enter Final Form and do something like this.

Not type 2 info manip, again, it's even noted in the page to be more fundamental than type 1, and so per site standards that wouldn't work here.
And it'd be a NLF to claim it applies to anything whatsoever, notably including actual Low 1-C AP and Low 1-C abilities that don't exist in the setting (Arceus has never fought in-verse someone truly at his level).

Low 1C Ap that Arceus has now?

No, you're yet to prove how all Soras hax is 5D as the only thing accepted was that the cosmology size was 5D

No type 2 info to do that, gg.

It works on stuff thrown by the Lingering Will, which is Low 1-C

What makes these characters low 1C beyond Ap and durability

And I'll ask why you're giving things that was not accepted in CRT

I mean, that'd be fair game here, but I'm doing this match in advance as tier 1 is generally a dead end of matches, so I wanted to do this to have some fun while I could

Arceus' precognitive abilities and the likes have no feats of reaching tier 1 levels, so he'd be unaware on how to stop Sora from reviving.

Arceus is low 1C and overwatches all creation so yes, it scales

No type 2 info manip to actually do that, so not really.

Mastering all martial arts doesn't tell me much without showings of how good that's in practice, especially with Arceus' physiology in relation to the most skilled Pokémon rendering most of that information kinda useless out of being too different to be even practical.

You win this one

Sora has Low 1-C trapping with Chicken Little, Magnega is also fair game here as it also works from type 1 CM and type 2 info, which works even on characters that can teleport.

I'm waiting for you to explain how Sora has 5D hax beyond AP

Notably it also is made of type 2 information, which the Pokémon series lacks as a whole.

Hmm

Please read Sora's page.

Because the memories are directly tied to a heart, and so you'd need to disrupt a heart to do anything like that in the first place.

And what makes the Heart 5D for all characters

Read this completely please

As said before, he resists.

Arceus has to trigger it first as it isn't just passiving everything in the verse as it goes around, and so the actually passive fate manip just prevents those abilities.

Arceus Cosmic Awareness means he's seen it all. There's absolutely no reason to believe he wouldn't spam it as quickly as he could

As said before, it could reach even outside a 5-D space to another one at that level, so it totally has the range to work here.

It matters when not only Sora resists Type 1 CM on a 5D level, his own concept is also tier to type 2 info, which is more fundamental overall per definition as heavily implied in the Info Manip page on the site.

There's nothing that makes Soras heart 5D. 5D only applies to AP

Deal with it, just as low 1C Arceus is dealing with it

I mean, Gen IV already got remakes, it's that old, I know how you feel : V

An unquantificable speed increase that even Pokémon that are relative to each other can react to, yeah no.

ES makes a character fast to the point of appearing almost invisible. And it always goes first, regardless of how fast the opponent is

Type 4 acausality that caps at tier 2, smurfery says no

3D sora lol