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Arceus/CT Hax Revising

ProfessorKukui4Life

ProfessorKukui4Life

16,959
4,855
Said I was going to make this and I don't hold back on promises. Thats why im Kukui, oh yeah!! OvO

Anyway, it has come to my attention that, for the Creation and Lake trio's, there's like, a few threads AT LEAST with requests in adding new abilities for them (maybe more), ones that HAVE NOT been added yet, that went somewhere with discussion but....just....died out. While understandable, this has been bugging me and I wanted to summarize all the points for them in one thread. That way, whether accepted or rejected, they would all be dealt with once and for all.

This thread will again only be summarizing the suggestions from the other threads. Thats it. Of course discussion on whether or not they're acceptable will happen, but no big explanations will be made. Unless some push hard for it ovo. Anyways here we go.

Thread 1

  • Arceus gets the powers of pokemon types for offensive purposes, not just defensvive, and have it upscaled from weaker pokemon. Since I linked the thread, the justifcations are there if anyone wants to read them.
  • Dialga and Palkia requested to gain physical, mental and spiritual destruction for destroying the all of the universe's spirit made by the Lake Trio for Cyrus and making a new one strictly without it (For the record, we still accept the LT having soul manipulation for creating spirit, which should help clarify this). Also being able to erase Dakrai entirely from existence (Will note one thing, we do accept Darkrai being destroyed as erasure since, according to this, it would be "downplay" to call it anything less , otherwise even suggesting Mid-Godly regen for him would be ridiculous). And this active, not passive.
  • Added with point 2, resistances to the appropriate pokemon.
Thread 2
Some stuff is being waited on im guessng so not bringing them up. Otherwise:

  • Immunity to Matter Manipulation and resistance to void manipulation for Arceus predating matter and being a void. Goes for the CT and debatedly the LT.
  • Likely Conceptual Destruction for Arceus dominating the CT
  • Arceus getting all the CT and LT's abilities that weren't added yet for them being direct parts of Arceus instead of just creations
  • Arceus getting Z-crystals as standard equipment, giving him Z-moves to use in battle.
Thread 3
Most of the thread is done, but one thing suggested:

  • Palkia having Type 5 immortality for it being alive, yet not alive.
That should be it to my knowledge. With the threads linked, and all notable abilities not added yet brought here, we can discuss whether they can be accepted or not and get it out of the way finally.
 
The scan used in his profile currently to justify it is very unsatisfactory and doesn't really imply anything.

I'm still keeping my stance on the spirit stuff being empathic manipulation, since Cyrus' dialogue and motivation in general implies it is.

Arceus is not immune to matter manipulation by predating matter, that's not how it works, especially when it would apply to every pre-universal being in fiction. Arceus being a void was rejected repeatedly.

Dominating the CT doesn't mean he can destroy their concepts.

Why would Arceus have the Z-Crystals.

"Alive, yet not alive" is very, very vague and doesn't warrant Type 5.
 
I back Ever on all of his arguments.

A lot of these Pokemon arguments are way too vague to hold ground in my opinion.
 
I'm not to well versed in Pokemon so I'm just going to give my input on the things I can.

Thread 1

It seems fine to give Arceus the standard things of the types he turns into, Such as a Ghost Type he will get Intangibility as ghost types can do that normally without moves. The only thing is Arceus already had a lot of abilities that are given by this trait so someone would need to find the standard abilities that he doesn't have that the types would give him.

Thread 2

Is it specifically stated the CT and LT are actually parts of him?. If so I think it's ok to give him their abilities

I'd like to know as well why Arceus would get Z-Crystals as Standard Equipment, are they like his plates and come from him.
 
@Lord

The problem with giving Ghost-types "intangibility" is that they're only immune to Normal-type moves throughout the series. Other physical attacks, like throwing boulders or slashing them with a metal claw will still work. I don't think we can generalize this for Arceus.

I'd also like a citation on Arceus having the Creation Trio's abilities, since it seems like an arbitrary creator god thing with no basis.
 
@Lord


"In the beginning, there was only

a churning turmoil of chaos.
At the heart of chaos, where all
things became one, appeared an Egg.
Having tumbled from the vortex, the
Egg gave rise to the Original One.
From itself, two beings the Original
One did make.
Time started to spin.
Space began to expand.
From itself again, three living things
the Original One did make.
The two beings wished, and from them,
matter came to be.
The three living things wished, and
from them, spirit came to be.
The world created, the Original One
took to unyielding sleep..."
~ The Original Story
 
@Repp

I can understand what you're saying about the Type thing

@Lephyr

Thanks, while that explains the LT and Palkia and Dialga. It doesn't say anything about Garitina.

I guess we can give him the five of their abilities but I want to know what others think.
 
"This cave painting... It's always been described this way. The light in the center represents either Dialga or Palkia appearing at the Spear Pillar. The three lights around it were thought to be Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf. But, then, I realized that there may be another way of interpreting this. Could this triangle of lights actually represent a different trio? Could they be Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina instead? And the large light in the center. Does it represent something else? Could it be what created this world of ours? Do you know of the ancient Plates they find all over Sinnoh? One of them had this engraved on it. "Two beings of time and space set free from the Original One." I think this quote, too, points to the presence of another Pokémon. A Pokémon even more powerful than Dialga or Palkia. Does that sound plausible to you? I'm not quite sure how Giratina fits into this scheme of things, but... It's said that in the Distortion World, neither time nor space were stable. I think that tells us something about Giratina, the only Pokémon there. It must have been as powerful as Dialga and Palkia, the rulers of time and space. In some way, though, Giratina has to have a power opposite of theirs. A long time ago, I wonder what sort of person painted this? Dialga's Roar of Time... Palkia's Spacial Rend... To the people back then, those Pokémon really must have appeared to rule over time and space. Seeing them must have shaken the people to their very core. This painting represents those feelings of awe, wonder, and everything else. It passed that memory to countless people, eventually becoming a myth... That's what I believe as a researcher of myths. I think I let myself get carried away and talked for far too long. I'm sorry, and thank you. Let's meet again."

~ Cynthia

Edit: Before you get to trigger the event where Cynthia states that, your encounter with Cynthia at the spear pillar reveals this...

"At Spear Pillar" When this world was made, Dialga and Palkia appeared. Apparently, there was one more Pokémon that appeared at the same time. A Pokémon with as much power as Dialga and Palkia... But also one whose name was never to be spoken--Giratina! It's said to lurk in another world... A world on the opposite side of ours...

"At the Distortion World" The legend of Giratina has been all but forgotten but to a few... The legend told of a world on the other side of ours. This world. Why does this world exist? Why is Giratina here all alone?

-

So, according to Cynthia, the reason that Giratina does not appears in the ancient texts is because it was forgoten.
 
@Lephyr

While it does state the three could represent another trip, it still doesn't state Garitina came from Arceus like Palkia and Dialga.
 
20160416003521.jpg
 
Also, making something from itself doesn't mean that they're part of the original creation.

BB created Meltlilith and Passionlip from herself, but they're hardly mere extensions of her will, with their own motivations, personalities, and powers.
 
@Lephyr

ƒÿô...

Ok, I see. I'd still like to here others opinions but I guess he could have their abilities since they are born from him.
 
Cynthia says when you have Arceus in your team that feels the powers of Dialga, Palkia and Giratina, and the Arceus of the HG/SS event has the characteristic moves of the Creation Trio.
 
@Cal

No. By this logic every creator god would get every power in their respective series. It just doesn't work like that.

@NeoZex

Give us a scan of this. We can't just take your word at face value.
 
You are... a Pokémon Trainer? I can sense strong power coming from your Poké Ball..." "I feel a familiar presence... The power of Dialga... Palkia... or could it be Giratina? It's similar, but not quite the same... Have you got time? Can you come to the Sinjoh Ruins with me? Call it a Trainer's intuition. When you and your Pokémon step onto that stage, something will happen."

https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Cynthia https://www.serebii.net/events/dex/493.shtml
 
I completely agree with Cal on this one.

Just creating them is one thing to prevent you from getting their abilities. Creating them from literal parts of yourself is an entirely different ball bark, and its outright stated the trio's are direct parts of Arceus.
 
Also guys (putting this in a separate reply for a reason)

I'd appreciate it if we tackle one suggested ability at a time before going on to the next. Otherwise the convo will go all out of place again and die off and will not be dealt with.

Since we're talking CT and Lt abilities seemingly, lets deal with this first.
 
As I said above I'm ok with giving Arceus the CT and LT's abilities as they are stated to come from him but I do think Repp has a point and it's likely Arceus will not show these abilities ever.

Woul doing "Possible" [insert said abilities here] (It is stated that the CT and LT are direct parts of Arceus so it is possible he possesses their powers and abilities)
 
I personally think a note would be better than possibly but its up to what everyone thinks.

The thing is though...I don't see why Arceus wouldnt show these abilities specifically. Or be willing to anyway.
 
The real cal howard said:
It wouldn't, because this isn't a compromise. It's something that's directly stated.
Click to expand...
Ok, my bad man!

As said tho I'm fine with giving him their abilities.
 
All of us are friends so lets keep it that way ovo

Anyway, since the CT and LT stuff concluded smoothly, lets go onto the next thing.

The mental, spiritual, and physical destruction stuff. Because this is a pet peeve of mine that I want taken care of.
 
@ProfessorKukui4Life

This is where I take a step back as I don't know enough to give an opinion on The Mental, Spiritual, and Physical Destruction.
 
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