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Arale upgrade symposium đź’©

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Confluctor said:
Just that the dragon quest scaling doesn't work and should be removed. The whole dragon quest thing can just be immersion + limited data and limited plot manip. All I can remember ATM
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Okay
I read through the chat and based on what has been discussed

The additions would be:
Limited plot manipulation (on top of Arale's billions of plot hax feats)
Limited Data manipulation
Immersion (again)

And the removals would be:
Anything DQ related to stats and abilities

Is that about right?
 
Question
She can still summon monsters in the dragon quest game
So would that be a product of immersion, summoning or data???
 
Fireld said:
Alright i'll take your word for the good doctor's senses. BUT i still think Senbei was more worried about Beerus' power(Casually sent her+a guy keeping up with her flying without any effort or making contact with them) & erasure hax(We agreed that film reel feat doesn't give EE resistance also Senbei wasn't there when she did that) rather than Goku's statement(wWo doesn't know all her tricks).
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If it makes you feel better about it. Another peice of evidence would be Arale demeanor took a 180 after Goku's statement. Even when she got blown to bits she didn't act like that. I think he blew away base goku in that situation.
Fireld said:
On a sidenote does anyboy know where to watch these specials?
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Probably on some pirated sites. However, idk specifically.

Orange said:
I'd rather wait for ArmBill's opinion, unless he already agreed, if that's the case, I don't object to this change.
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It's probably fine
 
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Well the range depends on if you apply lore or not. Personally I feel like it would be fine to do that. As it's explicitly dqv, but it seems applying lore was rejected.
 
ArmBill said:
She would scale to the top tiers such as nimzo and ezark according to these.
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If she scales above to them in terms of stat and get new abilities [Sumons and limited data manipulation] wouldn't a different key make more sense here? Or there is something I'm missing.
 
ArmBill said:
If it makes you feel better about it. Another peice of evidence would be Arale demeanor took a 180 after Goku's statement. Even when she got blown to bits she didn't act like that. I think he blew away base goku in that situation.
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Her demer didn't change when Goku talked(her expression wasn't any different then when Trunks told her to keep quite) nor when she got her head knocked off. When Beerus prepares to destroy her she looked more confused than scared. Kinda like before she got blown pieces. Even if you think she more worried in DBS she could have seen Beerus erasure(which ain't suprising since she turned around at his side when Beerus landed, she has even crazier senses than Senbei as she has looked fight far into outerspace from Earth & she wasn't that far the next scene). It would be harder to get fixed from erasure than getting broken.
ArmBill said:
Are there anymore stat related things to discuss?
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Wasn't @Ss3micah gonna prepare sth about the buu saga scaling too?

I just noticed sth about Arale
Comes from a 80s manga
Goes on bizzare adventures
Reads Jump & fights people who can break the 4th wall like Jotaro has
Has abyssed hot immortal vampires
Has a floating companian that STANDS besides her
We need jojo memes with her
 
Orange said:
Why wouldn't the lore be relevant the scaling, when we do scale via lore and such
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But again, why are we scaling her to dragon quest or dungeons and dragons or whatever it is? It doesn't make sense. Especially since her data and plot manip takes care of that. There is no scaling of anything to be done here.
 
Fireld said:
Her demer didn't change when Goku talked(her expression wasn't any different then when Trunks told her to keep quite) nor when she got her head knocked off. When Beerus prepares to destroy her she looked more confused than scared. Kinda like before she got blown pieces. Even if you think she more worried in DBS she could have seen Beerus erasure(which ain't suprising since she turned around at his side when Beerus landed, she has even crazier senses than Senbei as she has looked fight far into outerspace from Earth & she wasn't that far the next scene). It would be harder to get fixed from erasure than getting broken.
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But she saw the erasure and still acted all goofy and happy. So we know that wasn't the reason. She changed her demeanor once they warned her, and kept it while Beerus was about to destroy her, which is very seldom. It propagates Goku's statement imo.
Fireld said:
Wasn't @Ss3micah gonna prepare sth about the buu saga scaling too?

I just noticed sth about Arale
Comes from a 80s manga
Goes on bizzare adventures
Reads Jump & fights people who can break the 4th wall like Jotaro has
Has abyssed hot immortal vampires
Has a floating companian that STANDS besides her
We need jojo memes with her
Click to expand...
True!

Confluctor said:
But again, why are we scaling her to dragon quest or dungeons and dragons or whatever it is? It doesn't make sense. Especially since her data and plot manip takes care of that. There is no scaling of anything to be done here.
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Well it would be a stat thing because they blitzed and one shotted nimzo. Plus the the priest statment is for when people are max level. When he said they're strong enough.
 
ArmBill said:
But she saw the erasure and still acted all goofy and happy. So we know that wasn't the reason. She changed her demeanor once they warned her, and kept it while Beerus was about to destroy her, which is very seldom. It propagates Goku's statement imo.
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Because he was using it at evil guy, not her, at that time & as a saying goes "All's fun & games till it's your turn to get the short end of the stick". Again she didn't change when Goku warned. She kept the same expression from the time Trunks told her to keep quite, got confused when Beerus showed he was angry & charged that ball. We have seen a simular expressions when she isn't understanding sth(He gets mad only beacuse she asked him to play. That would suprising for sb who doesn't know Beerus' personality) or when sb matching/overpowering her(CM 4, 7 & Super).
 
ArmBill said:
Well it would be a stat thing because they blitzed and one shotted nimzo. Plus the the priest statment is for when people are max level. When he said they're strong enough.
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As I mentioned a few times, its a hyper specifics form of immersion and data manip. As we already established, she doesn't follow the rules of the system due to her own toon force powers - which comes as a form of data manip or resistance to it. So, no, the scaling won't be justifiable, especially since she is not canon to the game verse.
 
I'm pretty sure the data stuff just referred to the amount of possible summons/companions.

I don't see how Immersion disqualifies this. Arale is clearly stated and showed to be strong enough to fight those characters.
 
Confluctor said:
As I mentioned a few times, its a hyper specifics form of immersion and data manip. As we already established, she doesn't follow the rules of the system due to her own toon force powers - which comes as a form of data manip or resistance to it. So, no, the scaling won't be justifiable, especially since she is not canon to the game verse.
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The data stuff only works for her summons tho, she specifically stlped following the rules how much companions she can get.
And as for the later point. If it's done via plot manipulation, then it shouldn't be limited at all, since she essentially ignored the story changed the entire narrative to have her easily defeat the grand master nimzo instead of the hero. And her being not canon to the verse doesn't disprove anything at all.
 
Orange said:
And as for the later point. If it's done via plot manipulation, then it shouldn't be limited at all, since she essentially ignored the story changed the entire narrative to have her easily defeat the grand master nimzo instead of the hero
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I already repeated myself a few times... You can use it as supporting evidence for plot manip, because this kind of thing would usually not qualify straight up for plot manip. To qualify for plot manip, you have to know your very own story is a plot and you can affect it in various ways.


Orange said:
And her being not canon to the verse doesn't disprove anything at all.
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Oh no, it very much does. I can mess around with a computer, hack it, do I actually now scale to a tier 2 character, hmm? Scaling characters from something like this which involves heavy hax like data and plot manip is rather stupid.

Now, I don't know the game verse at all, and don't know how OP they are meant to be or how it all works out, but cross scaling anything like this is a no go. It just doesn't make sense. Just because you can do something inside a fictional setting, doesn't mean you can the same here. However, if she were canon to the game in any form or shape, then yes, she can scale, but she doesn't here.
 
Fireld said:
Because he was using it at evil guy, not her, at that time & as a saying goes "All's fun & games till it's your turn to get the short end of the stick". Again she didn't change when Goku warned. She kept the same expression from the time Trunks told her to keep quite, got confused when Beerus showed he was angry & charged that ball. We have seen a simular expressions when she isn't understanding sth(He gets mad only beacuse she asked him to play. That would suprising for sb who doesn't know Beerus' personality) or when sb matching/overpowering her(CM 4, 7 & Super).
Click to expand...
She should've understood from everyone freaking out and whis hyping up Beerus. That he could destroy anything. Plus Mashirito got hakaied for just talking to Beerus and slightly annoying him. Like you said and I showed she has pretty good senses. Even then she wanted to **** around with Beerus. It started with Trunks statment yeah. However, she still kept the expression. With Obotchaman, she became confused when he was being weird. Not exactly the same situation, right when they started to fight she became akin to her usual self. With Caramel Man 7, she only had that expression when he learned she couldn't affect him. Which is more similar to the Beerus case, even then though she still fought till being broken into multiple peices. But in the Beerus situation she had the context that her "stuff" wouldn't work on him. Plus she didn't even try and do anything and stood there, even though she wasn't immobilized.
 
Confluctor said:
I already repeated myself a few times... You can use it as supporting evidence for plot manip, because this kind of thing would usually not qualify straight up for plot manip. To qualify for plot manip, you have to know your very own story is a plot and you can affect it in various ways.
Click to expand...
No, The user can be unaware of having said hax and it would still be a full fledged ability.

Archie Sonic is not aware of his fatehax,just to make an example. We don't treat as limited, because that would be just flat out wrong.
 
Don't see the correlation to sonic, but plot manip is often slightly different. And yes, there can be people who can manipulate plot in certain ways without knowing, however, that's not the case here.
 
Confluctor said:
I already repeated myself a few times... You can use it as supporting evidence for plot manip, because this kind of thing would usually not qualify straight up for plot manip. To qualify for plot manip, you have to know your very own story is a plot and you can affect it in various ways.



Oh no, it very much does. I can mess around with a computer, hack it, do I actually now scale to a tier 2 character, hmm? Scaling characters from something like this which involves heavy hax like data and plot manip is rather stupid.
Click to expand...
That's not exactly the same since she was sent into the game. Plus if you use plot Manipulation to become stronger than someone, you're still stronger than them. It still a stat. Plus all of her power is from Toonforce anyways.
Confluctor said:
Now, I don't know the game verse at all, and don't know how OP they are meant to be or how it all works out, but cross scaling anything like this is a no go. It just doesn't make sense. Just because you can do something inside a fictional setting, doesn't mean you can the same here. However, if she were canon to the game in any form or shape, then yes, she can scale, but she doesn't here.
Click to expand...
Characters have used their own manga, the dragonball manga, and even Shonen Jump. Plus it's explicitly dqv. I dont really see a reason to say it would be applicable.
 
Confluctor said:
Don't see the correlation to sonic, but plot manip is often slightly different. And yes, there can be people who can manipulate plot in certain ways without knowing, however, that's not the case here.
Click to expand...
Plot Manipulation is literally just a better Fate Manipulation. So yes, there's correlation.
 
Now the proposal is to upgrade Arale’s tier to scale to characters from another series??
 
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