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Aokiji vs August (8-10-0) / Needs One Piece Supporters to see if it's a Stomp!

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Zackra1799 said:
It is never stayed to be limited to living/sentient beings. It's an area of effect spell as stated by Lyon that targets everything in range. This is shown by the bird which sped up when it left the range of the spell. Unless you want to say Racer targeted the birds.
The situation with Gray seems like Plot armor tbh.
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I got that off the fandom page!
 
HenryWong122 said:
I got that off the fandom page!
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Just looked it up on the fandom page as well and it also states it's time manip based, and doesn't state anything about it only affecting living things.
 
Okay, I reread August's fight so I can revise this thread properly.

First, Reflector won't work on DF powers nor intangibility. It works on magic, and DF powers ain't magic. August isn't nulling Kuzan here at all, much less reducing him to CQC. Worth noting that he need feats of copying non-magic shit as well, so he's not getting those powers.

Second, Reflector won't reflect the ice either. If there's a way to equalize this, we have to consider that the Hie Hie no Mi powers come from the fruit, just like how Celestial Spirits come from the keys. Bit of a stretchy equivalency, but without the fruit, Kuzan doesn't make "ice magic", so August can't reflect that.

Third, I need the chapter for Sawyer vs Gray's fight. This would be solved much easier if we look at the scans rather than the wiki which might not be reliable.
 
If Reflector wouldn't work on the ice powers, then Kuzan opens this fight putting August heavily on the defensive and all votes for August citing Reflector need be removed since Kuzan absolutely wins in light of that fact
 
@Calaca Reflector isn't an ability that solely reflects magic, where you got that from I don't know. It reflects Erza's swords most of which are none magical in nature, her base armour which provides no inherent magical abilities and it warps clothing which again was non magical and the only special thing about it was that it was stretchy.

So all in all an inaccurate counter point
 
@David magic is in all things. And considering a lot of Erza's weapons have magical characteristics it's not strange to think that he's, I don't know, reflecting the magic.

Chapter of MacBeth's introduction and fight, please.
 
And even then, he doesn't reflect Cana's cards for some reason. Maybe he can't. Well, the same happens with Kuzan's ice.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Slowing magic isn't stated to be time based in the manga going by thr official scans.
20191201 194722
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If thats the case then someone should make a crt for it because his magic is listed as time manipulation
 
Also Erza never attacked Midnight from behind, she attacked directly in front of him. Which is made useless considering Kuzan can just spawn spikes of ice aiming for every spot on August.
 
Okay, read the chapters. What I can get from that is:

  • Reflector can't be used in two spaces at the same time. Either he attacks or defends, but not both at the same time. Meaning that Kuzan can spam swords in the air if August tries to reflect his ice.
  • August doesn't go Reflector on people. If he didn't use it against Cana's cards or Gildarts' punch then that's not in-character.
So no. Reflector isn't an argument here.
 
Oh for the love of, please, saying "magic is in all things" isn't an argument especially when you take into consideration that based on SBA it is established that the fight takes place in a neutral location that provides no inherent advantage or disadvantage to any character. What you're trying to do there is apply a technicality to the fight so as to give a character an advantage, frankly it's a dishonest and irritating tactic.

Reflector is a passive defence normally, if the individual is attacking its defence isn't activated, it cannot work on two places at once but it can be manipulated with August at the epicentre and it doesn't work on living organisms these are the rules of Reflector, no weird caveats aside from these, everyone just stick with them for heavens sake
 
SBA doesn't make Kuzan's ice magical either. It has been established that Reflector doesn't bend the human body. Welp, Kuzan's human body will not be affected, and moving his ice won't do shit either.

Not like it matters. August doesn't even use Reflector againt fodder shit. There's no evidence he'd do to Kuzan here.
 
Not like it matters. August doesn't even use Reflector against fodder shit. There's no evidence he'd do to Kuzan here

He never fights without having logia body, why he will take extra damage when he can just shrug off that attack, and akoji being on same tier as august didn't make akoji or his attack fodders
 
The Calaca said:
SBA doesn't make Kuzan's ice magical either.
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I never suggested SBA makes Kuzan magical, I'm saying it doesn't matter because an absence of magic isn't reflectors weakness. Ur trying to argue that because everything has magic in FT reflector can only effect things with magic, I point out that that is never an established weakness and your response is "well magic exists in everything so he's only reflecting the magic" which isn't even an argument since you have no evidence to prove that he's exclusively reflecting magic and not the objects physical form, he reflects light, he reflects the ground, he reflects air these are all natural phenomena.

If we adopt ur ridiculous stance on this matter it'll basically make FT battles inapplicable on the site because you'll just argue well X happens in a universe without magic so this ability won't work, completely ignoring the fact that this particular system of an ever present energy permeating everything isn't a unique concept. Tons of verses adopt this concept and we've hardly ever had an issue of someone attempting to use that as a technicality to exclude abilities.
 
HenryWong122 said:
You could've just let it go but NOPE, y'all gotta be difficult!
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I assume this is referring to me. Y should I let it go? I think it's a poor argument and a dishonest one so I'm going to point it out, better to address than just ignore it
 
What I meant is that August doesn't even use Reflector on fodder attacks. He prefers to dodge or even take the hit rather than using it (Cana and Gildarts, respectively).

@David In a world full of magic, but okay. I concede on this one. Doesn't disprove the lack of use of this ability.

But that's exactly what we do. Characters with Magic Nullification can't affect characters without magic even through verse equalization. Heck, they don't even affect characters with a chi-based energy. We don't do things just because how aplicable they are. Look at Bleach or Star Wars if you don't believe me
 
The issue is reflector isn't magic nullification, it's is attack reflection. There is no evidence that suggests it is only effective against magic, it's isn't described as been effective solely against magic, it isn't described as reflecting the magic in objects, all we are told and shown is that attacks are reflected or diverted around Midnight.

My problem here isn't the vs (I honestly couldn't care less) my issue is that you're trying to argue that because reflector is only ever used in its home universe, that is sufficient reason to argue that it won't work on abilities without the omnipresence of magical energy when that isn't a limitation presented in the story nor is it a reasonable assumption to make based on the description of the power itself.
 
Yeah, there's a difference between someone with magic nullification trying to powernull a kamehameha and someone with spatial manip magic trying to move it. The former requires the Ki attack to be magic and the latter does not. Reflector is not a magic that requires something to have magic in it to be used on them and this is never stated anywhere in the story or by WoG.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
Also Erza never attacked Midnight from behind, she attacked directly in front of him. Which is made useless considering Kuzan can just spawn spikes of ice aiming for every spot on August.
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I already responded to this earlier but I posted scans of the fight above. The reason Erza managed to hit Midnight is because Reflector can not be used in two places at once. It can be used in the area around the user or on someone else. It does not only work in front of Midnight or August.
 
Also, Midnight can bend light himself to create magic, and pretty sure that he can make the 3D illusions like mavis by bending light.
 
Relfector works on natural elements, thus it works on ice. Provide the scan that specifies it is on magic only. Next.

August not using stuff against a pair of fodder is absolute PIS and not a reason to say he won't against someone equal when he used it to flex on other fodder who were stronger than Cana like .... yesterday. The fact that he can't copy what he would believe to be magic would be even more reason to actually use his stuff against a relative opponent.

Him dodging Cana's cards is also a narrative choice as Mashima needs a way for the Copy Magic to be explained beyond villain explains his power to reveal a convenient weakness trope. Mashima does the same thing when Erza figures out Midnight's Reflector in the Nirvana arc. Gildarts, who I think we can all agree ***** on Cana power wise, blew up his arm with an overcharged attack because August can't null item based bagic yet the old man just ignored a direct hit and bodied them even more. Him dodging is PIS, no way around it, and him not Reflecting anything else from them is because he negged everything.
 
Let this end listen everyone here is constantly repeating the same points with some facts more of opinions Kuzan does not I repeat does not have any form of resistance against magic, so to my point August flames are magic based not DF based and how can kuzan counter magic in any sense then again how can August counter all of kuzans abilities; he can't so battle is inconclusive. A ******* DRAW/TIE lol
 
I love how you jump over a debunked argument that I agreed with.

But none of you provided August using Reflector in the fight to protect him from anything. So your arguments matter little to nothing. He doesn't reflect in-character, so he's not doing that to Kuzan.

Next.
 
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