Anos MFTL+ Downgrade (but it's not Clickbait this Time)

[DaReaperMan]

I know, I was one of the first to work on this verse in 2020 and I also approved the deletion of the verse, however all the scans that were there at that time were from MTL, unlike the ones me and the supporters are sending now that are translated by fluent in japanese

How do we know

That's the problem, we don't.

Literally just don't use unreleased content, jesus.

Anyways, the lightning wolves are made out of legit lightning, but it's a bit weird. We know they're not just lightning based projectiles, as they can "wait" in place before attacking. So I'm kind of at a loss here; Do we assume a construct is automatically as fast as what it's made of, even if it doesn't directly show those speeds? I'm leaning towards this being MHS+, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

DEVIL MAY CRY.

And I do think that's MHS+ yes

 

[Guileal]

Literally just don't use unreleased content, jesus.

okay, I suggest you say that on other CRT's then, because from what I saw you didn't care about RAWS and fan translation on other CRT's because you could refute them, different from here that seems to me here you're just running from the fact of his speed reject your CRT :v

 

[Guileal]

Adios now

 

[Guileal]

How do we know

That's the problem, we don't.

@Vergil_Lucifer hey bro, he doesn't believe you are fluent in japanese, lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

okay, I suggest you say that on other CRT's then, because from what I saw you didn't care about RAWS on other CRT's because you could refute them, different from here that seems to me here you're just running from the fact that his speed rejects your CRT : v

Argue with your current verse rules, not in here lol

@Vergil_Lucifer hey bro, he doesn't believe you are fluent in japanese lol

Bro was last seen 13 days ago

Sounds pretty fodder NGL

 

[Guileal]

Argue with your current verse rules, not in here lol

Bro was last seen 13 days ago

Sounds pretty fodder NGL

do you want his discord? or the site where he posts the translations? i don't mind sending it because i know how fluent he is

 

[DaReaperMan]

do you want his discord? or the site where he posts the translations? i don't mind sending it because i know how fluent he is

I don't have any japanese verses that need translating right now, if I remember I'll ask you if I ever do have one.

 

[Guileal]

I don't have any japanese verses that need translating right now, if I remember I'll ask you if I ever do have one.

Okay

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Literally just don't use unreleased content, jesus.

Anyways, the lightning wolves are made out of legit lightning, but it's a bit weird. We know they're not just lightning based projectiles, as they can "wait" in place before attacking. So I'm kind of at a loss here; Do we assume a construct is automatically as fast as what it's made of, even if it doesn't directly show those speeds? I'm leaning towards this being MHS+, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

Yeah, I think this should qualify. The wolves are literally the lightning from the clouds.

 

[KingTempest]

What's the mechanics behind the technique that makes Lay move that fast?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What's the mechanics behind the technique that makes Lay move that fast?

It's not really a special technique, Lay just gets stronger/faster the more he fights.

 

[KingTempest]

It's not really a special technique, Lay just gets stronger/faster the more he fights.

Oof

I thought it was something like he literally becomes a flash of light.

He's just fast as shit

Yeah axe this

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Oof

I thought it was something like he literally becomes a flash of light.

He's just fast as shit

Yeah axe this

What do you think of these wolves being actual lightning and thus their movement scaling to MHS speeds?:

Literally just don't use unreleased content, jesus.

Anyways, the lightning wolves are made out of legit lightning, but it's a bit weird. We know they're not just lightning based projectiles, as they can "wait" in place before attacking. So I'm kind of at a loss here; Do we assume a construct is automatically as fast as what it's made of, even if it doesn't directly show those speeds? I'm leaning towards this being MHS+, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

 

[KingTempest]

Looks like they can work

 

[Deagonx]

We know they're not just lightning based projectiles, as they can "wait" in place before attacking. So I'm kind of at a loss here; Do we assume a construct is automatically as fast as what it's made of, even if it doesn't directly show those speeds? I'm leaning towards this being MHS+, but I'd like to hear more opinions.

I share your skepticism here. They do appear to be made of real lightning, however:

• Cloud-to-ground lightning is considered to be real lightning, as long there is nothing suggesting otherwise.
• Lightning that has demonstrated at a minimum a few properties that real lightning has, and significantly less properties that lightning shouldn't have, can be considered real.

So, there are quite a few elements that lightning shouldn't have, such as the obvious "is a talking spirit wolf" and the various attributes that come along with that. The only property these wolves seem to share with real lightning is that they come from clouds.

Crucially, the wolves can take the form of any element. So unless we assume all the wolves are lightning fast, using any other wolves seems pretty ridiculous given that every character in the verse can statue them, no? There are also wolves of light, which present a similar obstacle.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

The literal lightning bolts among clouds became these wolves, to the point every time they appear, indeed thunderclaps can be heard. It's as straightforward as possible imo.

Your argument is now hinging on incredulity.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The literal lightning bolts among clouds became these wolves, to the point every time they appear, indeed thunderclaps can be heard. It's as straightforward as possible imo.

Your argument is now hinging on incredulity.

Also that Wolf is stated to move at Lighting speed.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1017830130472726628/1111669540724691014/Screenshot_20230526-202732.png

The lighting based wolfs are stated to move at lighting speed and when thunder peeled they moved at faster than sound. It's speed depends on natural phenomenon of course.

Additionally there was Wolf made up of pure sun light though it's speed was not stated. Overall I want to say elements were made up of pure natural phenomenons and Lighting Wolf was clearly stated to move at lighting speed and when thunder comes wolfs are moved at faster than sound.

It just depends on how nature works.

 

[Deagonx]

It also strikes me as problematic given how frequently the descriptions of the speeds of characters is so vastly lower than what is being implied. For instance:

Faster than the eye could see, Lay slashed the branches away. The Spirit of Thunder and Wind released more bolts of lightning, but Lay weaved through them to close in on the Spirit King.

Lay had carved it into dust faster than the eye could see.

The lightning-like wolves pounced faster than the speed of sound.

Ydol doubled the speed of his attacks—then doubled it once more. His hands were moving faster than the eye could see, releasing a flurry of strikes—yet Lay’s sword remained undamaged.

It's also the case that Gennul by default isn't covered in lightning, it's a cloak that hits and surrounds him:

The Wolf of Hiding opened his maw towards the ceiling and howled. Lightning struck the giant wolf, enveloping his body like an electrified cloak.

The literal lightning bolts among clouds became these wolves, to the point every time they appear, indeed thunderclaps can be heard. It's as straightforward as possible imo.

I am aware of that, but given our standards, the logistical issues with the approach, and some evidence to the contrary, I am more skeptical.

Your argument is now hinging on incredulity.

If we take that same approach, do you feel that extends to the wolves of light?

This time, the sun’s rays formed the shape of wolves instead. With an unlimited amount of sunlight, the wolves howling on the branches were endless in number

Using the black aurora as a cover, I blocked out the sunlight. The wolves of light vanished in an instant

I dispelled Beno Ievun and allowed in the sunlight, which immediately took the form of wolves once again.

If so, I think we have a bit of a problem here right? Light speed wolves and lightning speed wolves are extremely different. 270,000mph vs 670,000,000mph. I am skeptical of the 2500x speed increase.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

It also strikes me as problematic given how frequently the descriptions of the speeds of characters is so vastly lower than what is being implied. For instance:





It's also the case that Gennul by default isn't covered in lightning, it's a cloak that hits and surrounds him:




I am aware of that, but given our standards, the logistical issues with the approach, and some evidence to the contrary, I am more skeptical.


If we take that same approach, do you feel that extends to the wolves of light?


If so, I think we have a bit of a problem here right? Light speed wolves and lightning speed wolves are extremely different. 270,000mph vs 670,000,000mph.

You gonna ignore this scan ?



Also like your scan states there are different kind of wolves. They each vary their speed depending on the elements they gets formed by nature.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Actually, I might be an idiot, because I mistakenly read that passage as the lightning forming the wolves, while in actuality, it's that the clouds form the wolves:

"Each cloud formed the shape of a wolf". So yeah, I jumped to conclusions, that's my bad.

The thing about the wolves changing to be made of light is probably legit, but they're erased before they even get a chance to do anything, so I'm opposed to using that as scaling. What I'm gathering from this arc is that the author has some kind of vendetta against wolves.

 

[DaReaperMan]

You gonna ignore this scan ?



Also like your scan states there are different kind of wolves. They each vary their speed depending on the elements they gets formed by nature.

To be fair there is a lot of spooky stuff about different things, so I don't blame Deagon for being a little sus of this

Also can you get onto This CRT to improve your Anos profile?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

You gonna ignore this scan ?



Also like your scan states there are different kind of wolves. They each vary their speed depending on the elements they gets formed by nature.

Like we've discussed before, Maou Gakuin has a habit of just plainly stating things as being "(x) speed", but the issue is that it's both hard to gauge how much of this is serious vs how much is prose, especially since it's so inconsistent. Within the same chapter, someone can be the speed of light, speed of lightning, speed of sound, and FTE all at once.

 

[Deagonx]

You gonna ignore this scan ?

No? Why are you accusing me of ignoring a scan that I have directly addressed, and brought up myself in this very thread?

Also like your scan states there are different kind of wolves. They each vary their speed depending on the elements they gets formed by nature.

I'm aware, yes. I also posted that in my comment that you are replying to.

I don't follow. Did you reply to me for no other reason than to accuse me of ignoring a scan that I myself posted in this thread, and to point out something I also said in this thread?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Like we've discussed before, Maou Gakuin has a habit of just plainly stating things as being "(x) speed", but the issue is that it's both hard to gauge how much of this is serious vs how much is prose, especially since it's so inconsistent. Within the same chapter, someone can be the speed of light, speed of lightning, speed of sound, and FTE all at once.

Like I already explained there were

Lighting Wolf
Fire Wolf
Sunlight wolf
Blah blah blah blah

Lighting Wolf moved at lighting speed that's a clear cut statement especially cloud and thunder is clearly mentioned. Anos needed to remove Cloud to erase them. It's not MGK. It's you who is not understanding the context.

Also mind sending me the thread where it was discussed clear cut speed statement was denied? Only thing I see is Flash of light and other things getting rejected.

 

[Deagonx]

It's you who is not understanding the context.

Eldemade, stop accusing people of "not understanding the context" when they don't agree with you.

Like I already explained there were

Lighting Wolf
Fire Wolf
Sunlight wolf
Blah blah blah blah

This doesn't address anything she just said, and we already have this information. Please do not clog the thread with this kind of stuff.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No? Why are you accusing me of ignoring a scan that I have directly addressed, and brought up myself in this very thread?


I'm aware, yes. I also posted that in my comment that you are replying to.

I don't follow. Did you reply to me for no other reason than to accuse me of ignoring a scan that I myself posted in this thread, and to point out something I also said in this thread?

For me it seemed like you are Questioning the validity of the Sound and lighting speed. I was Clarifying it's speed depends on natural phenomenon itself. When Lightning struck it was moving at lighting speed when thunder peeled it moved faster than Speed of sound. Scan itself clearly mentioned about thunder peeled. It's clear they need natural phenomenons to form them and act accordingly to that.

Anos needed to remove the clouds go erased them so they can't exists or move around without natural phenomenons.

 

[Deagonx]

I was Clarifying it's speed depends on natural phenomenon itself.

Okay, but this is a pretty crucial distinction. That isn't a clarification, that is a claim that is unsubstantiated by the evidence. We do not have any information yet that suggests the speed is dependent on the element, and as a concept is pretty incoherent (what is the "speed of fire?") and practically this presents a logical obstacle in the series, which makes it a questionable interpretation.

 

[DaReaperMan]

MHS+ can be on the profile one way or another, likely/possibly exist for a reason

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Like I already explained there were

Lighting Wolf
Fire Wolf
Sunlight wolf
Blah blah blah blah

Lighting Wolf moved at lighting speed that's a clear cut statement especially cloud and thunder is clearly mentioned. Anos needed to remove Cloud to erase them. It's not MGK. It's you who is not understanding the context.

Except the "lightning wolves" are literally just made of clouds; They don't have a set speed, because they aren't even made of lightning. So while lightning is technically involved, it has nothing to do with the wolves and nobody scales to it.

That said, the latter half of the LN does have a number of lightning dodging feats that could be legitimate; Some of them are definitely magical lightning, but this could possibly work.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Okay, but this is a pretty crucial distinction. That isn't a clarification, that is a claim that is unsubstantiated by the evidence. We do not have any information yet that suggests the speed is dependent on the element, and as a concept is pretty incoherent (what is the "speed of fire?") and practically this presents a logical obstacle in the series, which makes it a questionable interpretation.

Fire spirit got erased by Aeges we don't know about that speed. Wolf takes form depending on natural phenomenon if the could exists lighting wolf takes the form otherwise they would be non existent and sunlight wolf takes the form and attacks the opponent.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Actually, I might be an idiot, because I mistakenly read that passage as the lightning forming the wolves, while in actuality, it's that the clouds form the wolves:

"Each cloud formed the shape of a wolf". So yeah, I jumped to conclusions, that's my bad.

However, by the context of the thunderclap and how this formation starts by the movement of the lightning bolts, I see it as more likely that the lightning itself is the wolf. Which is where the description of them "moving lightning fast" would lend more credence.

As for the light wolves, the difference is here we do have more support with the clouds and thunderclap. If the light wolves don't have such supporting evidence, I wouldn't take them as lightspeed, no.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

MHS+ can be on the profile one way or another, likely/possibly exist for a reason

This is true, but it leaves us with the issue of what to do with the low 5-B calc. Have whatever low end we decide on as the default, and use low 5-B as a "possibly"?

Fire spirit got erased by Aeges we don't know about that speed. Wolf takes form depending on natural phenomenon if the could exists lighting wolf takes the form otherwise they would be non existent and sunlight wolf takes the form and attacks the opponent.

Where is it stated the wolves are made of lightning? Also, the light wolves were erased and didn't even get to do anything, so their speed is irrelevant.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This is true, but it leaves us with the issue of what to do with the low 5-B calc. Have whatever low end we decide on as the default, and use low 5-B as a "possibly"?

Indeed, in fact I think that calc could be modified and still get decent results above 6-C

 

[Deagonx]

As for the light wolves, the difference is here we do have more support with the clouds and thunderclap. If the light wolves don't have such supporting evidence, I wouldn't take them as lightspeed, no.

Well, the light wolves have direct statements of being made of sunlight. Even more direct than the lightning.

This time, the sun’s rays formed the shape of wolves instead. With an unlimited amount of sunlight, the wolves howling on the branches were endless in number

Using the black aurora as a cover, I blocked out the sunlight. The wolves of light vanished in an instant

I dispelled Beno Ievun and allowed in the sunlight, which immediately took the form of wolves once again.

The only thing thats missing is a "speed" statement, but the lightning wolves were also called hypersonic.

I think the other issue is that this feels like a really weird plot hole for all of the other wolves. If every character involved in this fight more or less scales to the lightning wolves, how do the other wolves present literally any threat whatsoever? They're moving in hyper slow motion. Call it incredulity, but the notion of the speed of these wolves shifting upwards and downwards throughout the fight by multiple orders of magnitude and this is never remarked upon strikes me as an unideal interpretation of events.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think the other issue is that this feels like a really weird plot hole for all of the other wolves. If every character involved in this fight more or less scales to the wolves, how do the other wolves present literally any threat whatsoever? They're moving in hyper slow motion.

Why are we ruling out that these wolves simply scale exactly?

Well, the light wolves have direct statements of being made of sunlight. Even more direct than the lightning.

If they are made of literal sunlight, then I would support a likely SoL honestly. The reason the OPs statements didn't work is because of the emotional thingy (while the other is not really an indication of lightspeed, but of blitzing). But if we have a statement of them being actual natural light, I don't see an issue with treating them as actual light.

Edit: We have statements that these wolves take on the properties of their elements, no? We have a direct showing of an elemental wolf immediately showcasing this by assuming the form of lightning and clouds, where the actual natural bolts moved in accordance to them. And we have a statement of wolves being made of natural sunlight, where covering them in darkness made them disappear, suggesting they are indeed natural light. Pretty straightforward honestly.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If every character involved in this fight more or less scales to the lightning wolves, how do the other wolves present literally any threat whatsoever?

Every Elements has different abilities. It has nothing to speed for everything wolfs are not attacking with AP instead hax

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

If they are made of literal sunlight, then I would support a likely SoL honestly. The reason the OPs statements didn't work is because of the emotional thingy (while the other is not really an indication of lightspeed, but of blitzing). But if we have a statement of them being actual natural light, I don't see an issue with treating them as actual light.

Also you should check this scan. This is clearly mentioned as Sunlight

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Indeed, in fact I think that calc could be modified and still get decent results above 6-C

The calc, even if they were moving at 1 meter per second (which why the hell would they be iirc they do have higher scaling) would be High 6-C and again this is literally assuming the bare minimum of just their mass and moving 1 m/s. Even at baseline subsonic it easily breaches into High 6-B so it just depends on how fast we say they scale above and what statements we have to back it up.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The calc, even if they were moving at 1 meter per second (which why the hell would they be iirc they do have higher scaling) would be High 6-C and again this is literally assuming the bare minimum of just their mass and moving 1 m/s. Even at baseline subsonic it easily breaches into High 6-B so it just depends on how fast we say they scale above and what statements we have to back it up.

Can you check and tell me if this Qualifies?

Also you should check this scan. This is clearly mentioned as Sunlight

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I think we're jumping the gun here; First, we've yet to actually prove that the wolves are made of lightning, and not clouds accompanied by lightning like the text suggests. Second, we have no indication that the light wolves scale to anyone, because they get erased before they can even do anything.