Anos MFTL+ Downgrade (but it's not Clickbait this Time)

[EldemadeDityjon]

Eh, you're bringing up a bunch of unrelated feats and calling it context to try and override the fact that the Spear very blatantly isn't infinitely fast.

I am giving Context where Gennel calling Aeges spear as weak is just a joke. That should be clearly Aeges talking about Gennel speed. There are tons of atleast infinite speed characters couldn't Dodge that spear in later volumes. Clearly it doesn't make sense for Gennel to say it.

This is wrong. It very clearly wasn't no time.

Context is important and it's still no time. Agree to disagree here. I do have Russian Translation Scans but let's stop it here because I don't want to use them and debate here. I will wait until later volumes translated.

Well you tried that and it was well on its way to being rejected.

With all respects just so you don't agree don't say it was all going to reject meanwhile previously more staff agreed on this than your rejection. (Though Volume 6 & 8 Plays some big role for this spear statements ).

It may have been accepted or rejected no one knows. Like you always say other staffs may have had different POV. You wouldn't know about that.

 

[Veronica]

He will be 2-B/A anyway with mhs speed lol

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

He will be 2-B/A anyway with mhs speed lol

Spoiler

Volume 5 has statement for Anos & Shin Casually moving faster than Speed of light. The calculation which got removed today will be re added when that volume translation gets out. Current Lay is lightspeed but currently doesn't have straightforward statement except his body turned into light. He upscales from that feat.

 

[Deagonx]

Context is important and it's still no time. Agree to disagree here.

No, the scan directly rebuts that, this isn't just a matter of opinion. Stop stonewalling this. The scan describes Gennul trying to avoid the Spear over time, and that the spear was "keeping up" with Gennul and "following" it "no matter how fast" he moved. Any one of these phrases would cast serious doubt on the notion of this being instantaneous, but in the full context such a stance is completely untenable, so stop being unreasonable and dogmatically sticking to an argument that clearly cannot hold water.

Current Lay is lightspeed but currently doesn't have straightforward statement except his body turned into light. He upscales from that feat.

I'm not sure if you understand what this thread is about, but we just reached three staff agrees for removing the "flash of light" speed scaling.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@PhantomØ4 was doing some calculation. Wait for him.

Reasonable to me.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No, the scan directly rebuts that, this isn't just a matter of opinion. Stop stonewalling this. The scan describes Gennul trying to avoid the Spear over time, and that the spear was "keeping up" with Gennul and "following" it "no matter how fast" he moved. Any one of these phrases would cast serious doubt on the notion of this being instantaneous, but in the full context such a stance is completely untenable, so stop being unreasonable and dogmatically sticking to an argument that clearly cannot hold water.

Already explained why it only moves in straight line. You are thinking far fetched things here.

If Someones aims at me and shoots me and I got hit and then moved to side that mean shooter needs to reshoot it. Either way if we go by your logic then it would be PIS. Because immeasurable speed characters couldn't Dodge this spear in future volumes.

There are more feats which clearly shows spear being faster than immeasurable than getting dodged by the lightining speed.

I still agrees to disagree because I know full context regarding this spear and it's been negging multiple Infinite to immeasurable speed characters in the series. I don't buy your interpretation. So I hope you respect readers POV who actually read all 14 Volumes of WN and 12 Volumes of LN. The scan I shown only belong to Volume 4. There are still 8-10 Volume of context left to be discussed.

I'm not sure if you understand what this thread is about, but we just reached three staff agrees for removing the "flash of light" speed scaling.

No one disagreeing with this thread. I was talking Lay Upscaling from Volume 5 for same feat. That's a different thing. Also it has nothing to do with flash of light. Statement in volume 5 clearly mentioned as faster than Speed of light. Word to word.

Anyway let's stop. This is derailing at this point.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Reasonable to me.

I hope he comes with some Solution. Otherwise we need to wait for 4 months to get a Straightforward statement for FTL feats. Volume 5 will be realising in Oct / Nov.

If @PhantomØ4 doesn't come up with any Solution. List it as MHS or unknown.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If @PhantomØ4 doesn't come up with any Solution. List it as MHS or unknown.

Most likely would have to be unknown, until this calculation is properly made:

I can help if y’all want the calc adjusted ig (it’s kinda straightforward). With a subsonic Lay then the calc becomes MHS, but I can’t recall if the characters have any blunt supersonic statements that would increase the speed.

At least they have the speed of sound statement from the wolves.

Of course, this is assuming the wolves don't qualify for straight lightning speed, but we need more proof for that.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Most likely would have to be unknown, until this calculation is properly made:

At least they have the speed of sound statement from the wolves.

Of course, this is assuming the wolves don't qualify for straight lightning speed, but we need more proof for that.

Lighting speed is mentioned multiple times. This specific spirit can manipulate real lighting thanks to born from Rumours and Legends. By verse mechanism they would live up to their rumours. It should be considered as real life lighting as it also has thunder and wind like how nature works

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1017830130472726628/1111667557406093383/Screenshot_20230526-201931.png

Though I will leave the Calculation to phantom. Normally Tatsumi would do the work but i haven't seen him from yesterday most probably he went on a break due to thread ban. So we don't have any calculation members for now.

 

[Deagonx]

Either way if we go by your logic then it would be PIS. Because immeasurable speed characters couldn't Dodge this spear in future volumes.

??? That's completely ridiculous. Even if there are later feats that could be legitimately "immeasurable speed" that would not change what this scan very clearly says. You could claim the other evidence outweighs it, but objectively, this scan is incompatible with infinite speed.

Lighting speed is mentioned multiple times.

It's an incredible common hyperbole, so we need more than that.

This specific spirit can manipulate real lighting thanks to born from Rumours and Legends. By verse mechanism they would live up to their rumours. It should be considered as real life lighting as it also has thunder and wind like how nature works

The scan you posted doesn't establish any of this, so we'd need real evidence of it to accept it.

 

[Shmooply]

It's stated to be a spirit of weather and clouds or whatever, and it can summon lightning bolts, I'd say that's decent proof for MHS+ MGK. If Phantom's calc turns out to be accurate, we'd have more supporting proof for MHS speed.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Lighting speed is mentioned multiple times. This specific spirit can manipulate real lighting thanks to born from Rumours and Legends. By verse mechanism they would live up to their rumours. It should be considered as real life lighting as it also has thunder and wind like how nature works

The requirements here

If you can prove they qualify for those (you don't need all of them, though I don't remember what were the minimum, will get back to you on that), then we can solidly place them at MHS.

But merely mentioning lightning speed is not enough.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The requirements here

If you can prove they qualify for those (you don't need all of them, though I don't remember what were the minimum, will get back to you on that), then we can solidly place them at MHS.

But merely mentioning lightning speed is not enough.

Well phantom did said Lighting Wolf feat qualifies let's see what he can do or just place it for unknown speed for now.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Well phantom did said Lighting Wolf feat qualifies let's see what he can do or just place it for unknown speed for now.

What volume does the feat appear in?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What volume does the feat appear in?

Volume 4.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Disagree btw, do you have any proves that emotional light slover than ordinary

Something better than "its not literally light because its not ordinary light"

It's something you can argue offsite if you want, but the problem is on-site it's different

 

[Guileal]

Repelled from the ground, Ray was covered by the light of Theo Aska. He accelerated and ran in a straight line towards the false mistress.

“…H-ha…!!”

Ray waved Evansman, covered in Theo Ask, from top to bottom.

Avos Dilhevia covered her right hand with "Beno Eun" and protected herself from the sword with it as a shield. The moment the sacred sword touched the Beno Evn, it changed its trajectory and jumped up. Ray spun in place in a fluid motion and slashed at the left side of the false demon lord's body.

She defended herself against this blow with her left hand with "Beno Evn", but the sword jumped again and changed the trajectory. The lunge of the sword of the spirits of gods and people at light speed landed directly on the left side of the chest of Avos Dilhevia.

“I just told you that the sacred sword has lost its power.

Even though Ray put all the power of his body into Evansman, he failed to pierce his target. And he was prevented from doing so by a thin layer of black radiance “Beno Evna”, covering the front side of her body. (Volume 4. Ch 70)

Speed of light for lay

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Speed of light for lay

literally where

 

[Guileal]

literally where

are you serious?

 

[DaReaperMan]

are you serious?

He covers himself in light and dashes to attack

That's not being Light-speed that's covering your body in Light and hitting the W key

I can put Lights all over myself and move forward, am I Lightspeed now?

 

[Guileal]

He covers himself in light and dashes to attack

That's not being Light-speed that's covering your body in Light and hitting the W key

I can put Lights all over myself and move forward, am I Lightspeed now?

"The lunge of the sword of the spirits of gods and people at light speed landed directly on the left side of the chest of Avos Dilhevia"

You're telling me this isn't the speed of light? literally a direct quote

 

[Guileal]

did you even read what i sent? it has nothing to do with him covering himself in light but a quote of him moving at such speed

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Okay nvm I see it now

That passage seems to be not the official translation, since Lay is referred to as "Ray", so give me a moment to check the version we should be using.

 

[Guileal]

Okay nvm I see it now

That passage seems to be not the official translation, since Lay is referred to as "Ray", so give me a moment to check the version we should be using.

feel free, I'm using an LN translation translated by a fan fluent in Japanese, which by the way is the same one they are using on this CRT

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

That light-speed quote will only be available on J-Club in July.

 

[Guileal]

Raw version

聖剣が＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞に触れた瞬間、それは跳ねるように軌道を変えた。流れるような動きでレイの体がくるりとその場で回転し、偽の魔王の左半身を薙ぐ。



　それを、彼女は左手の＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞で防ごうとする。

　しかし、再び聖剣が跳ねて、軌道が変わる。



　光速の刺突が、アヴォス・ディルヘヴィアの左胸に直撃する。



「その聖剣は力を失っていると言ったばかりですわ」



　渾身の力を込めたエヴァンスマナは、しかし、アヴォス・ディルヘヴィアの左胸に刺さっていない。

　その体の表面に薄く纏った闇のオーロラ、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞が、それを阻んでいたのだ。

Translated:

The holy sword <Shikaimaki wallbeno even> touched it, it changed its trajectory like it bounced. With a flowing movement, Rei's body rotates on the spot and mows down the left half of the fake demon king.



　She holds it in her left hand.Shikaimaki wallbeno even> to prevent it.

　However, the holy sword bounces again and changes its trajectory.



　A light speed stab hits Avos Dilhevia's left chest.



"I just said that the holy sword has lost its power."



　Evansmana with all his strength, however, is not stuck in Avos Dilhevia's left chest.

　The aurora of darkness clad thinly on the surface of its body, <Shikaimaki wallbeno even> was blocking it.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

That light-speed quote will only be available on J-Club in July.

Yeah, I was just about to mention that. We can't use it right now.

 

[Guileal]

in short, they ran

 

[DaReaperMan]

Raw version



Translated:

Doesn't matter.

The last time folks tried to use translations from MG supporters on this verse, it was MTL and there were so many ******* wrong abilities and scans that Anos and his verse got ******* deleted

That's why only official translations are used for this verse on the wiki RN.

 

[Guileal]

Speed of light in japanese

光の速度
Hikari no sokudo


yep, the quote is from the speed of light

 

[DaReaperMan]

Speed of light in japanese

光の速度
Hikari no sokudo


yep, the quote is from the speed of light

Is it though? Or did you put it through Google Translate? We don't know with this verse anymore. There has to be officials.

 

[Guileal]

Doesn't matter.

The last time folks tried to use translations from MG supporters on this verse, it was MTL and there were so many ******* wrong abilities and scans that Anos and his verse got ******* deleted

That's why only official translations are used for this verse on the wiki RN.

on other CRT's they used the raw versions as a basis for the argument and didn't care as they knew they could refute them, but now that we have something confirmed and it rejects the downgrade it can't be used, interesting how things are

 

[Guileal]

Is it though? Or did you put it through Google Translate? We don't know with this verse anymore. There has to be officials.

can see in a kanji table

 

[DaReaperMan]

on other CRT's they used the raw versions as a basis for the argument and didn't care as they knew they could refute them, but now that we have something confirmed and it rejects the downgrade it can't be used, interesting how things are

Raw versions

Google Translate is 2 words into your browser away, wait for the official next month and THEN bring Anus Volitoad back to FTL

can see in a kanji table

Maybe, but we can't go beyond officials. That is the rule for this verse RN.

 

[Guileal]

Anyway, I really don't care about the verse anymore, but it's surreal how you're treating the verse here simply because of the fact that supporters can't use something that hasn't been officially translated yet and you're taking advantage of it even if there are translations by fluent fans to keep creating several CRT's downgrades in a row, in short, leaving the CRT, I really don't care about the verse anymore

 

[DaReaperMan]

Anyway, I really don't care about the verse anymore, but it's surreal how you're treating the verse here simply because of the fact that supporters can't use something that hasn't been officially translated yet and you're taking advantage of it even if there are translations by fluent fans, finally, leaving the CRT

Maybe if the Supporters got it translated correctly the first time around instead of plugging shit into a Machine Translation of their choice there wouldn't be this much scrutiny

 

[Guileal]

Maybe if the Supporters got it translated correctly the first time around instead of plugging shit into a Machine Translation of their choice there wouldn't be this much scrutiny

translation by fluent fans
computer translations

Yeah yeah

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah yeah

Yes.

Hell, if I recall it wasn't even mods who made the call, it was @ImmortalDread on the deletion thread so talk to them about this shit lmfao

I could be wrong though(I don't involve myself with Cringe verses outside of laughs and a vote for whichever side I think has a more solid point) so Don't take that as gospel

 

[Guileal]

Yes.

Hell, if I recall it wasn't even mods who made the call, it was @ImmortalDread on the deletion thread so talk to them about this shit lmfao

I could be wrong though(I don't involve myself with Cringe verses outside of laughs and a vote for whichever side I think has a more solid point) so Don't take that as gospel

I know, I was one of the first to work on this verse in 2020 and I also approved the deletion of the verse, however all the scans that were there at that time were from MTL, unlike the ones me and the supporters are sending now that are translated by fluent in japanese

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Literally just don't use unreleased content, jesus.

Anyways, the lightning wolves are made out of legit lightning, but it's a bit weird. We know they're not just lightning based projectiles, as they can "wait" in place before attacking. So I'm kind of at a loss here; Do we assume a construct is automatically as fast as what it's made of, even if it doesn't directly show those speeds? I'm leaning towards this being MHS+, but I'd like to hear more opinions.