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I still maintain they can scale to the MHS at the very least.
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Anos MFTL+ Downgrade (but it's not Clickbait this Time)
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
- Start date
I still maintain they can scale to the MHS at the very least.
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I'm not ruling it out, per se, I just find it odd if we are to assume that the reason for their speed is their element.
Then the light wolves are 2500 times faster than the lighting speed wolves?
In one scan they are directly called "lightning-like" which I think is a problem.
EldemadeDityjon
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Light wolf scales below Shin as a Spirit King. Also Anos Blocked the Sunlight after they jumped at him. In other words his speed scales above those wolfs.
EldemadeDityjon
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They didn't even struggled at them once. I don't see what's the problem. Anos and Aeges literally one shoted them every time.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- #165
That's fair, and yeah, they're definitely actual light.
Mm, being described as "like" something sort of contradicts you literally being that thing. It implies you're similar to, but not an exact copy of, whatever you're being compared to.
No, he just erased them from existence. I'm... very confused on the first point of scaling though.
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I'm not ruling that. I'm ruling "lightning is literally moving and the wolves appear, which also produces a thundercloud, on top of them being called lightning and that their movements are lightning fast", which suggests to me the wolves are actual lightning, and thus they should be MHS.
In the case of the light wolves, it's similar as you yourself brought.
If they end up scaling, it is what it is.
EldemadeDityjon
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Read the scan again. He blocked the sunlight after they jumped at him. They got erased because they are literally sunlight itself they can't exists without Sunlight.
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They're referring to how it said "they bared their fangs and pounced" then Anos used whatever magic it was to cover the light and erase them, which would mean he scales above them
Edit: And I see that I'm not a very fast typer and got Ninja'd lol
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Agreed.
The page for lightning feats clarifies that having properties lightning shouldn't have is counted against the credibility of scaling it to actual lightning. Now, I recognize that the wolves' appearance itself can be sourced to actual lightning, but what happens after that is a lot more suspect due to the various ways it conflicts with being actual lightning, in addition to the "lightning-like" statement.
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Well, we have given our points.
I personally support MHS as low end, with likely SoL for the light wolves.
I personally support MHS as low end, with likely SoL for the light wolves.
EldemadeDityjon
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Also none of the Wolves gave any trouble in speed. Anos and Aeges Negged them in an instant they were getting spammed by natural phenomenon every time. If Sunlight got blocked then wind wolf took the form.
EldemadeDityjon
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Yeah this.
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Should be noted, if MHS is more consistent with other feats and all, the SoL may end up being an outlier.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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- Thread starter
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Fair point. This would still only be relativistic though, since the spell doesn't seem like it requires any sort of physical movement on Anos' part, and we don't know how far away the wolves are.
So what are we looking at here? MHS+, possibly relativistic? That's fine with me, but considering these are from volume 4, I think there needs to be more deliberation on what to do with Anos' second key.
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Deagon disagrees with the light wolves, so we need more staff input. For me at least, that's reasonable.
EldemadeDityjon
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Anos doesn't use the spell with his mind. He physically spams the Beno evan.
EldemadeDityjon
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Can you share your take of Light Wolfs ? Because you are a calculation staff member. It's better we get your input.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Right, so:
@Deagonx: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS
@LephyrTheRevanchist: Agrees with MHS+, possibly SoL
@KingTempest: Agrees with MHS+
@Maverick_Zero_X: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS+
[CGM] @AbaddonTheDisappointment: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS+
I think MHS+ has enough support, though I don't mind waiting for more staff.
I'll remember that for future reference.
What kind of movements? Because it could be calced if we know how far away the wolves are.
@Deagonx: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS
@LephyrTheRevanchist: Agrees with MHS+, possibly SoL
@KingTempest: Agrees with MHS+
@Maverick_Zero_X: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS+
[CGM] @AbaddonTheDisappointment: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS+
I think MHS+ has enough support, though I don't mind waiting for more staff.
What kind of movements? Because it could be calced if we know how far away the wolves are.
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I'd prefer we wait, as Deagon's concerns are understandable. Don't want to leave anything to chance.
EldemadeDityjon
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I think you should count @AbaddonTheDisappointment vote because he is a CGM.
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I also think the light wolves definitively cannot be faster than Gennul, given that at his speed it was said to be "nearly impossible" to keep up with him. So the sudden appearance of wolves thousands of times faster than him IMO cannot follow moments after lightning speed was described as the near pinnacle.
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This isn't a calculation. He would be able to vote on how we re-scale the 5-B feat with the new speed statistic.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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What did he even vote for? He said Anos scales above the wolves, which we all kind of accept, but we need to know what he even thinks that speed would be.
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I agree with Supersonic, possibly MHS+
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I also believe his opinion is valuable, if the feat is even worth calcing and all. But for the purposes of applying statistics and all, it's moreso the job of a thread moderator (with admin and bureaucrat of course).
I could see it as maybe an outlier, given the heavy emphasis on lightning speed descriptors and all. But then again, that's moreso a matter of consistency. Fiction do be wack, yo.
EldemadeDityjon
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Why would that be? By this logic you gonna use the same statement to deny immeasurable speed or any other speed in future volumes ?
Lightining speed wolf speed was mentioned before Wolf of light. It wouldn't Contradict anything. He was talking about average person can't catch the lighting speed not that it's the top speed in the verse.
EldemadeDityjon
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My bad. Sorry I thought CGM has better view when comes qualifying this feat because normally they would be one who usually uses these things for calculation.
Sure I don't have any problem with thread mode or admins vote.
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Yeah for CRTs only thread mods, admins, and bureaucrats have proper staff votes. Though, if you want my opinion on the actual speeds I'm fine with Supersonic, possibly MHS+. Light speed feats require even more context than what's given so I'm iffy on properly scaling that.
EldemadeDityjon
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No problem
. I will remember that.
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The scan very clearly portrays Gennul's speed as something that can only be overcome with the spears ability to cut to points in space next to its target. It has nothing to do with "the average person." Gennuls speed is remarked upon as nearly impossible to keep up with.
Also "it wasn't long before the weapon pierced the wolf's giant frame" disproves it happening instantly.
EldemadeDityjon
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I already gave you the raw scans feel free to translate it. I am not going to keep Arguing back and forth.
Additionally Next moment multiple set of same wolves got negged in an instant. Are you saying one wolf can dodge the spear but multiple same wolf can't do that ?
Also What that has anything to do with later feats ? Because Anos literally reacted faster than Wolf made of light. It has nothing to do with lighting wolf.
There is no need to stick to past. Future events can have higher scaling that's how Fiction works. Just so Anos states it's near impossible to keep of with Lightning speed for Normal characters doesn't mean he himself can't move faster than Lightining or light.
EldemadeDityjon
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Here is the scan Aeges negging multiple Lightning Wolves in an instant. Also Wolfs needs cloud to exists.
PhantomØ4
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I just looked at the calc. Who on earth let them cook? It is totally not allowed to assume the characters move at any speed not explicitly stated using vsbw power scaling for calcs. It's pseudo-calc stalking.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
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Yyyyyyeah I'm gonna be honest, I thought that at first as well. I'm not familiar with our calc standards, so I just let it lie, but it could use a second look.
PhantomØ4
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It happens a lot with LN calcs for whatever reason but I always stumble upon random calcs that have characters moving heavy objects at speeds they have shown to react to in other occasions (cough Like Arifureta cough). Anyways, I'll update my re-calc blog to include my rough take on the feat.
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There's nothing indicating that those wolves attempted to dodge or even that they're as fast as Gennul.
You have this odd habit of asking me to explain my reasoning over and over again even when I've already explained it.
Sure, maybe across a long period of time. Not on the very next page. Besides that, Gennul is the one making the wolves of light, which makes it even more far fetched.
EldemadeDityjon
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So you are saying those Wolves know them getting negged and still stayed in the place just to get negged again by same attacks? What kind of logic is this ?
Your previous explanation are Argument from incrudility.
All of the Wolves themselves are Gennel dude. Lighting wolf also part of Gennel it's just different wolfs has different Elements though natural phenomenon is needed them to exists.
Also we are arguing with different Elements speed not Lightning speed wolf gaining speed of Light. Both has different Body and different natural phenomenon.
You are just sticking to one thing. Your arguments are far fetched from how things normally works.
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The_Pink_God
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Would the fact Gyze was being used mean that the characters would actually scale to 3× whatever value is chose?
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