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Anos MFTL+ Downgrade (but it's not Clickbait this Time)

Why are we ruling out that these wolves simply scale exactly?
I'm not ruling it out, per se, I just find it odd if we are to assume that the reason for their speed is their element.

I don't see an issue with treating them as actual light.
Then the light wolves are 2500 times faster than the lighting speed wolves?

First, we've yet to actually prove that the wolves are made of lightning
In one scan they are directly called "lightning-like" which I think is a problem.
 
I think we're jumping the gun here; First, we've yet to actually prove that the wolves are made of lightning, and not clouds accompanied by lightning like the text suggests. Second, we have no indication that the light wolves scale to anyone, because they get erased before they can even do anything.
Light wolf scales below Shin as a Spirit King. Also Anos Blocked the Sunlight after they jumped at him. In other words his speed scales above those wolfs.
 
I'm not ruling it out, per se, I just find it odd if we are to assume that the reason for their speed is their element.


Then the light wolves are 2500 times faster than the lighting speed wolves?
They didn't even struggled at them once. I don't see what's the problem. Anos and Aeges literally one shoted them every time.
 
are you conceding then that they would be actual light?

I still maintain they can scale to the MHS at the very least.
That's fair, and yeah, they're definitely actual light.

In one scan they are directly called "lightning-like" which I think is a problem.
Mm, being described as "like" something sort of contradicts you literally being that thing. It implies you're similar to, but not an exact copy of, whatever you're being compared to.

Light wolf scales below Shin as a Spirit King. Also Anos Blocked the Sunlight after they jumped at him. In other words his speed scales above those wolfs.
No, he just erased them from existence. I'm... very confused on the first point of scaling though.
 
I'm not ruling it out, per se, I just find it odd if we are to assume that the reason for their speed is their element.
I'm not ruling that. I'm ruling "lightning is literally moving and the wolves appear, which also produces a thundercloud, on top of them being called lightning and that their movements are lightning fast", which suggests to me the wolves are actual lightning, and thus they should be MHS.

In the case of the light wolves, it's similar as you yourself brought.

If they end up scaling, it is what it is.
 
No, he just erased them from existence. I'm... very confused on the first point of scaling though.
They're referring to how it said "they bared their fangs and pounced" then Anos used whatever magic it was to cover the light and erase them, which would mean he scales above them

Edit: And I see that I'm not a very fast typer and got Ninja'd lol
 
Mm, being described as "like" something sort of contradicts you literally being that thing. It implies you're similar to, but not an exact copy of, whatever you're being compared to.
Agreed.

I'm ruling "lightning is literally moving and the wolves appear, which also produces a thundercloud, on top of them being called lightning and that their movements are lightning fast", which suggests to me the wolves are actual lightning, and thus they should be MHS.
The page for lightning feats clarifies that having properties lightning shouldn't have is counted against the credibility of scaling it to actual lightning. Now, I recognize that the wolves' appearance itself can be sourced to actual lightning, but what happens after that is a lot more suspect due to the various ways it conflicts with being actual lightning, in addition to the "lightning-like" statement.
 
I'm not ruling that. I'm ruling "lightning is literally moving and the wolves appear, which also produces a thundercloud, on top of them being called lightning and that their movements are lightning fast", which suggests to me the wolves are actual lightning, and thus they should be MHS.

In the case of the light wolves, it's similar as you yourself brought.

If they end up scaling, it is what it is.
Also none of the Wolves gave any trouble in speed. Anos and Aeges Negged them in an instant they were getting spammed by natural phenomenon every time. If Sunlight got blocked then wind wolf took the form.
 
For my part, I think supersonic with a possibly MHS could be acceptable, but my preference is to not scale them to lightning. Completely against scaling the speed of the light wolves to light.
 
Read the scan again. He blocked the sunlight after they jumped at him. They got erased because they are literally sunlight itself they can't exists without Sunlight.
Fair point. This would still only be relativistic though, since the spell doesn't seem like it requires any sort of physical movement on Anos' part, and we don't know how far away the wolves are.

So what are we looking at here? MHS+, possibly relativistic? That's fine with me, but considering these are from volume 4, I think there needs to be more deliberation on what to do with Anos' second key.
 
Fair point. This would still only be relativistic though, since the spell doesn't seem like it requires any sort of physical movement on Anos' part, and we don't know how far away the wolves are.

So what are we looking at here? MHS+, possibly relativistic? That's fine with me, but considering these are from volume 4, I think there needs to be more deliberation on what to do with Anos' second key.
Anos doesn't use the spell with his mind. He physically spams the Beno evan.
 
They're referring to how it said "they bared their fangs and pounced" then Anos used whatever magic it was to cover the light and erase them, which would mean he scales above them

Edit: And I see that I'm not a very fast typer and got Ninja'd lol
Can you share your take of Light Wolfs ? Because you are a calculation staff member. It's better we get your input.
 
Right, so:

@Deagonx: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS
@LephyrTheRevanchist: Agrees with MHS+, possibly SoL
@KingTempest: Agrees with MHS+
@Maverick_Zero_X: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS+
[CGM] @AbaddonTheDisappointment: Agrees with Supersonic, possibly MHS+

I think MHS+ has enough support, though I don't mind waiting for more staff.
Anos doesn't use the spell with his mind. He physically spams the Beno evan.
I'll remember that for future reference.

What kind of movements? Because it could be calced if we know how far away the wolves are.
 
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I also think the light wolves definitively cannot be faster than Gennul, given that at his speed it was said to be "nearly impossible" to keep up with him. So the sudden appearance of wolves thousands of times faster than him IMO cannot follow moments after lightning speed was described as the near pinnacle.
 
I think you should count @AbaddonTheDisappointment vote because he is a CGM.
he don't count what a bozo hah

I also believe his opinion is valuable, if the feat is even worth calcing and all. But for the purposes of applying statistics and all, it's moreso the job of a thread moderator (with admin and bureaucrat of course).

I also think the light wolves definitively cannot be faster than Gennul, given that at his speed it was said to be "nearly impossible" to keep up with him. So the sudden appearance of wolves thousands of times faster than him IMO cannot follow moments after lightning speed was described as the near pinnacle.
I could see it as maybe an outlier, given the heavy emphasis on lightning speed descriptors and all. But then again, that's moreso a matter of consistency. Fiction do be wack, yo.
 
I also think the light wolves definitively cannot be faster than Gennul, given that at his speed it was said to be "nearly impossible" to keep up with him. So the sudden appearance of wolves thousands of times faster than him IMO cannot follow moments after lightning speed was described as the near pinnacle.
Why would that be? By this logic you gonna use the same statement to deny immeasurable speed or any other speed in future volumes ?

Lightining speed wolf speed was mentioned before Wolf of light. It wouldn't Contradict anything. He was talking about average person can't catch the lighting speed not that it's the top speed in the verse.
 
he don't count what a bozo hah

I also believe his opinion is valuable, if the feat is even worth calcing and all. But for the purposes of applying statistics and all, it's moreso the job of a thread moderator (with admin and bureaucrat of course).
My bad. Sorry I thought CGM has better view when comes qualifying this feat because normally they would be one who usually uses these things for calculation.

Sure I don't have any problem with thread mode or admins vote.
 
I think you should count @AbaddonTheDisappointment vote because he is a CGM.
Yeah for CRTs only thread mods, admins, and bureaucrats have proper staff votes. Though, if you want my opinion on the actual speeds I'm fine with Supersonic, possibly MHS+. Light speed feats require even more context than what's given so I'm iffy on properly scaling that.
 
Lightining speed wolf speed was mentioned before Wolf of light. It wouldn't Contradict anything. He was talking about average person can't catch the lighting speed not that it's the top speed in the verse.
The scan very clearly portrays Gennul's speed as something that can only be overcome with the spears ability to cut to points in space next to its target. It has nothing to do with "the average person." Gennuls speed is remarked upon as nearly impossible to keep up with.

Aeges thrust Dehiddatem forward. The top half of the spear vanished, reappearing on the inner side of Gennul’s electric cloak.
Gennul sprang to the side at lightning speed. “Too slow.”
It should have been near impossible to keep up with Gennul, but no matter how fast the Wolf of Hiding moved, the spearhead of Dehiddatem followed. It wasn’t long before the weapon pierced the wolf’s giant frame
Also "it wasn't long before the weapon pierced the wolf's giant frame" disproves it happening instantly.
 
The scan very clearly portrays Gennul's speed as something that can only be overcome with the spears ability to cut to points in space next to its target. It has nothing to do with "the average person." Gennuls speed is remarked upon as nearly impossible to keep up with.


Also "it wasn't long before the weapon pierced the wolf's giant frame" disproves it happening instantly.
I already gave you the raw scans feel free to translate it. I am not going to keep Arguing back and forth.

Additionally Next moment multiple set of same wolves got negged in an instant. Are you saying one wolf can dodge the spear but multiple same wolf can't do that ?

Also What that has anything to do with later feats ? Because Anos literally reacted faster than Wolf made of light. It has nothing to do with lighting wolf.

There is no need to stick to past. Future events can have higher scaling that's how Fiction works. Just so Anos states it's near impossible to keep of with Lightning speed for Normal characters doesn't mean he himself can't move faster than Lightining or light.
 
This is true, but it leaves us with the issue of what to do with the low 5-B calc. Have whatever low end we decide on as the default, and use low 5-B as a "possibly"?


Where is it stated the wolves are made of lightning? Also, the light wolves were erased and didn't even get to do anything, so their speed is irrelevant.

I just looked at the calc. Who on earth let them cook? It is totally not allowed to assume the characters move at any speed not explicitly stated using vsbw power scaling for calcs. It's pseudo-calc stalking.
 
I just looked at the calc. Who on earth let them cook? It is totally not allowed to assume the characters move at any speed not explicitly stated using vsbw power scaling for calcs. It's pseudo-calc stalking.
Yyyyyyeah I'm gonna be honest, I thought that at first as well. I'm not familiar with our calc standards, so I just let it lie, but it could use a second look.
 
It happens a lot with LN calcs for whatever reason but I always stumble upon random calcs that have characters moving heavy objects at speeds they have shown to react to in other occasions (cough Like Arifureta cough). Anyways, I'll update my re-calc blog to include my rough take on the feat.
 
Additionally Next moment multiple set of same wolves got negged in an instant. Are you saying one wolf can dodge the spear but multiple same wolf can't do that ?
There's nothing indicating that those wolves attempted to dodge or even that they're as fast as Gennul.


Also What that has anything to do with later feats ? Because Anos literally reacted faster than Wolf made of light. It has nothing to do with lighting wolf.
You have this odd habit of asking me to explain my reasoning over and over again even when I've already explained it.
There is no need to stick to past. Future events can have higher scaling that's how Fiction works
Sure, maybe across a long period of time. Not on the very next page. Besides that, Gennul is the one making the wolves of light, which makes it even more far fetched.
 
There's nothing indicating that those wolves attempted to dodge or even that they're as fast as Gennul.
So you are saying those Wolves know them getting negged and still stayed in the place just to get negged again by same attacks? What kind of logic is this ?
You have this odd habit of asking me to explain my reasoning over and over again even when I've already explained it.
Your previous explanation are Argument from incrudility.
Sure, maybe across a long period of time. Not on the very next page. Besides that, Gennul is the one making the wolves of light, which makes it even more far fetched.
All of the Wolves themselves are Gennel dude. Lighting wolf also part of Gennel it's just different wolfs has different Elements though natural phenomenon is needed them to exists.

Also we are arguing with different Elements speed not Lightning speed wolf gaining speed of Light. Both has different Body and different natural phenomenon.

You are just sticking to one thing. Your arguments are far fetched from how things normally works.
 
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Did they fight the wolves while under the effect of Gyze or any characters that a Gyze affected Lay would be faster than or as fast as? I need it to see if I add it to the calc or not.
 
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