Anos is Back, and so are Maou Gakuin Downgrades

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

That didn't take very long.

Anyways, Anos is back, and I figured now would be a good time to knock out both what I consider a very dishonest attempt to upgrade MG, and some stuff I had in the works prior to deletion. This isn't out of spite necessarily, I literally just noticed the page went up not too long ago and decided to see what was kept and what was trashed from the previous profile, and now here we are.

Concept Manipulation (Type 1)

Anos has this because he can destroy sources. First of all, sources were never accepted as being type 1; The verse was deleted before the proposed upgrade ever passed. Secondly, sources were downgraded to type 3 concepts here. So there is no accepted basis for sources being rated this high, while there is a basis for them being rated much lower.

Immortality Negation

Anos resists immortality negation (types 3, 4, and 8) because he can survive the destruction of his source, which grants him that immortality. The only problem is, destroying the source isn't immortality negation; It's just how reliant immortality works in this case, where characters rely on their sources. So there's no "immortality negation" to speak of here; That'd be like saying Harry Potter has immortality negation from destroying Voldemort's horcruxes. The same logic applies to Anos' own immortality negation through Venuzdonoa, though in both cases it seems like HGR negation is fine to stay.

Information Manipulation (Type 2)

The basis for this is that magical formulae are used to determine the properties of a spell. That's it. This is nowhere near enough for type 2 info hax; It is the equivalent of saying that a recipe is type 2 info, just because changing it changes the kind of food you make.

There are likely some minor things I missed, but these were the most eye-catching to me. However, I do think the profile is a big improvement overall, thank god, so at least there's that.

 

[ImmortalDread]

If this is not out of spite as you stated, then I don't know what is this because it fits the definition of downgrading out of spite and your title of the thread even implies that.

 

[Wardokman69]

No

 

[SuperStar]

If this is not out of spite as you stated, then I don't know what is this because it fits the definition of downgrading out of spite and your title of the thread even implies that.

You have to strike while the iron's hot, dread.

 

[RitsuØ1]

This verse is never going to have a chance to rest...

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The fact she is trying to imply CM type 3 > Type 1 is crazy. She is just desperate at this point

If this is not out of spite as you stated, then I don't know what is this because it fits the definition of downgrading out of spite and your title of the thread even implies that.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

If this is not out of spite as you stated, then I don't know what is this because it fits the definition of downgrading out of spite and your title of the thread even implies that.

Even if it were spite, it's still a lot better than inserting previously rejected material into a profile without a CRT.

which really begs the question of why a profile as big and controversial as anos' didn't have a CRT attached :v

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Anos has this because he can destroy sources. First of all, sources were never accepted as being type 1; The verse was deleted before the proposed upgrade ever passed. Secondly, sources were downgraded to type 3 concepts here. So there is no accepted basis for sources being rated this high, while there is a basis for them being rated much lower.

Is this for just Anos or Venuzdonoa? Because Venuzdonoa's reason for Type 1 is quite different and not about sources. If its just for sources I dont really care much since it was not my idea.

The basis for this is that magical formulae are used to determine the properties of a spell. That's it. This is nowhere near enough for type 2 info hax; It is the equivalent of saying that a recipe is type 2 info, just because changing it changes the kind of food you make.

It's a bit more than that. I explained it here. Don't know if that's enough or not, but I wanted to highlight that.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

The fact she is trying to imply CM type 3 > Type 1 is crazy. She is just desperate at this point

Take a look at the bolded section

Anyways, Anos is back, and I figured now would be a good time to knock out both what I consider a very dishonest attempt to upgrade MG, and some stuff I had in the works prior to deletion. This isn't out of spite necessarily, I literally just noticed the page went up not too long ago and decided to see what was kept and what was trashed from the previous profile, and now here we are.

What you consider? That certainly is giving me a red flag here

 

[Shmooply]

Looks good, agreed.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Take a look at the bolded section

What you consider? That certainly is giving me a red flag here

Time to consider our own things.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Fujiwara’s dedication to MG hate is actually admirable.

Neutral though.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Even if it were spite, it's still a lot better than inserting previously rejected material into a profile without a CRT.

which really begs the question of why a profile as big and controversial as anos' didn't have a CRT attached :v

Thanks for confirming it is spite.


Did you remember when you shut down Elde''s thread because it was spite? Oh ya, we can call staff members to do the same here.

Or should we be silent?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Is this for just Anos or Venuzdonoa? Because Venuzdonoa's reason for Type 1 is quite different and not about sources.

Venuzdonoa is fine, I'm aware it has nothing to do with sources. The CM1 downgrade was just for Anos.

It's a bit more than that. I explained it here. Don't know if that's enough or not, but I wanted to highlight that.

I do understand the logic, but I think it altering the functions of the spell is less of a consequence of it being fundamental in nature, and more about it being a set of instructions that the spell follows. Again, I think the recipe analogy sums up my thoughts quite well.

 

[Ped2018]

Fujiwara’s dedication to MG hate is actually admirable.

Neutral though.

She's so based for that

 

[InfiniteDay]

Instead of going "b-b-b-bias!!!" actually take the time to debunk the points so you won't have to deal with the crt again.

I agree as of now.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Thanks for confirming it is spite.


Did you remember when you shut down Elde''s thread because it was spite? Oh ya, we can call staff members to do the same here.

Or should we be silent?

Actually, Elde's thread was shut down because staff overwhelmingly disagreed with it. That isn't "spite".

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Instead of going "b-b-b-bias!!!" actually take the time to debunk the points so you won't have to deal with the crt again.

I agree as of now.

Instead of spamming random biased Downgrade and riding on FRA thread why don't you wait for Cosmology and explanation page getting dropped first. Kinda crazy how people just rides on FRA train without even knowing why the abilities are even listed.

 

[Enigmatic_Rurouni]

I hope this thread won't get too wild...

 

[Ped2018]

Thanks for confirming it is spite.


Did you remember when you shut down Elde''s thread because it was spite? Oh ya, we can call staff members to do the same here.

Or should we be silent?

Dread, isn't this enough?! Can you start to adress the OP?!

 

[Shmooply]

Cool, can we ignore discussing if this is a spite thread or not, and actually focus on the contents of the OP instead?

Instead of spamming random biased Downgrade and riding on FRA thread why don't you wait for Cosmology and explanation page getting dropped first.

Why didn't you do that first before uploading the profile the-

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Im extroadinarily confused how Type 1 concepts ended up on his profile again. I agree for now as well.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Cool, can we ignore discussing if this is a spite thread or not, and actually focus on the contents of the OP instead?

Clear cut bias is shown by OP.

Why didn't you do that first before uploading the profile the-

I didn't even uploaded the profile WTF.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Im extroadinarily confused how Type 1 concepts ended up on his profile again. I agree for now as well.

Gods are CM type 1 existence and sources are even deeper concepts than that. Unless anyone here try to say CM type 3 source > CM type 1 gods

 

[Shmooply]

Clear cut bias is shown by OP.

Nobody cares, address the points instead of getting into a dumb slap-fight that won't go anywhere.

I didn't even uploaded the profile WTF.

Then why didn't you discuss it with the profile's creator or ask for its deletion if he released it without asking.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Instead of spamming random biased Downgrade and riding on FRA thread why don't you wait for Cosmology and explanation page getting dropped first. Kinda crazy how people just rides on FRA train without even knowing why the abilities are even listed.

Wow.

And you're not batting Oblivion over the ears for this yet?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

If I recall correctly, doing it out of spite is baneable IIRC....., But oh well...., anyways, neutral for now, waiting for any counters

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Gods are CM type 1 existence and sources are even deeper concepts than that. Unless anyone here try to say CM type 3 source > CM type 1 gods

Why is this not on the profile? Some sort of explanation as to why sources are a deeper concept then Gods would be appreciated, especially as the last it was discussed sources where downgraded to type 3.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I don't have much patience for this bullshit, so please stop arguing over bias or spite, and actually address the arguments. If there is a WIP blog which explains why sources are type 1 concepts, then please share that now instead of bitching for several pages. Oblivion is at least defending their points, so surely you can do the same.

 

[deonment]

It's a bit more than that. I explained it here. Don't know if that's enough or not, but I wanted to highlight that.

Not really, if I change the parameters of something I'm not actually editing reality itself, I'm changing how something which then affects reality runs, it's the difference between upcasting or using metamagic for a spell in D&D and changing the mechanic behind which spells work

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Nobody cares, address the points instead of getting into a dumb slap-fight that won't go anywhere.

Then why didn't you discuss it with the profile's creator or ask for its deletion if he released it without asking.

There is literally a section for Q & A which is for asking doubts first instead of dropping a Downgrade CRTs out of bs shit.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Like hyenas to a slab of meat

Neutral for now, but op makes sense.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

neutral for now

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why is this not on the profile? Some sort of explanation as to why sources are a deeper concept then Gods would be appreciated, especially as the last it was discussed sources where downgraded to type 3.

Its in Last paragraph if you check. I mean Venozdonor key. Also there will be an explanation page dropping for this later onwards. It's just people can't wait for a bit instead of showing their bs. Crazy how Fuji could have contacted supporters and asked regarding this instead of dropping a bs thread which she never understood

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

but op makes sense.

̶S̶o̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶n̶e̶u̶t̶r̶a̶l̶.̶ ̶Y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶g̶r̶e̶e̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶.̶

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Gods are CM type 1 existence and sources are even deeper concepts than that. Unless anyone here try to say CM type 3 source > CM type 1 gods

Actually, in regards to this, the scans describing gods as order only says they embody order; Is there anything stating that their bodies are literally order itself?

 

[ImmortalDread]

I don't have much patience for this bullshit, so please stop arguing over bias or spite, and actually address the arguments. If there is a WIP blog which explains why sources are type 1 concepts, then please share that now instead of bitching for several pages. Oblivion is at least defending their points, so surely you can do the same.

But you guys could derail Elde's tooha downgrade thread for over 2 pages?

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Its in Last paragraph if you check. I mean Venozdonor key. Also there will be an explanation page dropping for this later onwards. It's just people can't wait for a bit instead of showing their bs. Crazy how Fuji could have contacted supporters and asked regarding this instead of dropping a bs thread which she never understood

If your argument is genuinely 'we will explain this later' then it should be removed till said explanation is available regardless of if it is valid or not.

 

[Shmooply]

There is literally a section for Q & A which is for asking doubts first instead of dropping a Downgrade CRTs out of bs shit.

You know those same Q&A threads can turn into CRTs if multiple people also have issues with a supporter's response. And again, this isn't just someone downgrading a verse because they don't understand it, you're ignoring how Fuji's trying to downgrade the Concept Hax that staff agreed on before amidst the other stuff in the OP.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Its in Last paragraph if you check. I mean Venozdonor key. Also there will be an explanation page dropping for this later onwards. It's just people can't wait for a bit instead of showing their bs. Crazy how Fuji could have contacted supporters and asked regarding this instead of dropping a bs thread which she never understood

Then why don't you...

A: have the profile deleted until you can make the explanations

And B: quit complaining and start actually arguing, if you're so confident you can sink your teeth into this CRT and rough it up, then actually do so instead of having people like me salt farm you for free