Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
- Thread starter
- #41
Nobody "derailed" anything in that thread. You just accused two members of derailing because they agreed with my points. Anyways, do you intend to address the thread, or not?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Anos is Back, and so are Maou Gakuin Downgrades
- Thread starter Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
- Start date
- Status
Nobody "derailed" anything in that thread. You just accused two members of derailing because they agreed with my points. Anyways, do you intend to address the thread, or not?
- 11,055
- 19,445
Nerd thread with nerd people typing nerd responses.
Following.
Following.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
- 18,393
- 14,323
Nobody?
The_Pink_God
She/Her- 2,641
- 733
Dread
Address the CRT or shut up, please
Neutral for now
Address the CRT or shut up, please
Neutral for now
- 9,681
- 11,103
The first page of the Touhou thread mentions spite twelve times.
We haven't even reached a page yet and the word "spite" has been brought up 24 times now.
And again, "but they talked about a lot about spite in this thread" isn't a valid excuse. Why stoop to the same level as your opponent instead of moving on and actually addressing the real arguments? This sea of trashtalking will make it harder for people to actually evaluate the counterarguments.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,999
- 12,680
Crazy there are tons of verses has same shit where there is no explanation page and many people still uses q &A thread as a medium to get to know the verses and here people Desperate enough to show their bias towards single verse out of nowhere just because they don't understand a thing.
- 3,631
- 897
I 'Don't understand a thing' because there is no scans or blog explaining said thing. You guys are just talking utter nonsense at this point.
- 8,875
- 9,449
This faux rivalry between Tooha and Magooka is the funniest shit since years. Reminds me of the spite trains Bleach and Naruto goons done in the past, before Naruto got subverted by Bleach.
- 43,104
- 37,246
My God you're making it hard for me to keep the toxic engines off lmfao
- 5,091
- 2,917
Nothing to say here. The entire basis of the supposed "downgrade"- which was the source governing only 1 individual and is thus a personal concept- was rejected by Don'tTalk DT.
Try to read it next time? Evansmana is a weapon forged specifically tonegate Anos powers.
Despite this, Anos was perfectly capable of reviving abd regenerating his source even when Evansmana had already negated Jerga's regeneration
At the core of every spell is a spell formula. A magical blueprint that allows it to function, determines the function. Changing the spell formula changes the properties of the spell.
Your analogy is wrong because the spell formula is what creates the spell. A recipe isn't doing the cooking it's just instructions to follow in preparing food. Spell formula aren't instructions it's what creates the spell and dictates the functions.
Also from the the Info manipulation page
- 25,632
- 15,962
We don’t talk about naruto and bleach, the bad blood between them is dirtier than the dirtiest kitchen sponge in the world
- 5,387
- 4,297
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,999
- 12,680
Ever checked other verses here ? No one is so Desperate enough to drop a Downgrade CRT without even trying to ask supporters of course bs people are different.
Also scans are already in the profile where its stated Gods are order itself. It's OP Ignorance that's all.
"Beings Made up of order"
- 18,393
- 14,323
True, I only find it amusing and actually hilarious that when it comes to other threads of other verses, spite threads are getting derailed and also closed, but when it comes to one obvious like this where even OP declare it as one, we should keep silent and move on.
Double standard at its finest.
Anyway going back to the discussion, I have no words for source CM type 1 as there are couple of threads adjusting it. So not even sure what is CM type 1 or type 3 anymore.
But I will address tmr (as currently it is 2:20 am) about immo negation (funny how almost every verse works on this logic but you want to play the game as it is not the case) and information type 2 (will leave it rather to Tatsumi as he is the one suggested it)
Double standard at its finest.
Anyway going back to the discussion, I have no words for source CM type 1 as there are couple of threads adjusting it. So not even sure what is CM type 1 or type 3 anymore.
But I will address tmr (as currently it is 2:20 am) about immo negation (funny how almost every verse works on this logic but you want to play the game as it is not the case) and information type 2 (will leave it rather to Tatsumi as he is the one suggested it)
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,828
- 12,455
- Thread starter
- #56
I'll respond to the rest later, but DT specifically states that a personal concept can only ever be type 3.
- 5,845
- 3,291
- 43,104
- 37,246
I love how you're Implying the Maou Gakuin supporters don't spite verses(Cough that entire Touhou CM thread cough), ya'll MFers ain't innocent either
TBH neither am I
- 3,881
- 1,115
Agree with everything
pretty sure CM should be just type 2 now tbh
pretty sure CM should be just type 2 now tbh
- 13,833
- 4,021
Quite hard to keep track of what's happening. Are people saying gods arent AE type 1?
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,999
- 12,680
- 19,234
- 6,511
No more derailing guys, stick to addressing the op.
Anything else gets deleted.
Anything else gets deleted.
- 15,594
- 22,894
Deleting any further replies hyper-fixating on the OP’s intentions. Focus on the thread’s actual contents, please and thank you.
- 5,387
- 4,297
Thank god
- 3,631
- 897
People are requesting sufficient evidence for the re-addition of type 1 concepts after the last thread regarding them was that they where changed to type 3. Currently the scans on the profile indicate that source is a type 1 concept without any explanation as to why it is a deeper concept then order.
- 13,833
- 4,021
Yeah but Elde said gods themselves, who are order/concepts, still have their own sources. Then Mokou said they dont (?)
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,999
- 12,680
I don't care about information manipulation type 2 but I will just address this Conceptual Manipulation Type 1. Gods are embodiments of Order and order itself and they are concepts type 1 and Source even fundamental concepts for Gods and everything in the verse. CM type 1 gods < Source (Fundamental Concepts). This is why source is listed as type 1 concept. Anyway scans were already in the profile. I am just copy pasting here. You can check the 3rd line.
- 3,631
- 897
Awesome. If thats the case lets get that onto the profile because it isn't there.
- 13,833
- 4,021
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,999
- 12,680
- 3,631
- 897
Put this into the concept manipulation section of the profile as well so its you know like clear and concise.
DaMonkeMan
He/Him- 18,012
- 15,459
This is gonna be good
Following.
Following.
- 5,234
- 2,322
That doesn't make it type 2, changing the parameters of a spell is not the same as changing reality itself, you are changing what the spell that will then go on to change reality does, not actually changing reality, using the comparison I said before, upcasting/using metamagic in dnd isn't the same as changing the magic system itself, one changes the behavior of a spell, which wouldn't be type 2, the other changes the logic and workings of all magical abilities altogether (not that dnd, has info manip based off this to my knowledge, but the comparison still holds water)
That isn't what the intent there is, it is referring to verses where the magic system is based upon editing the underlying information of reality to produce magical effects, which is not the case here.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,999
- 12,680
That's why I said wait for explanation page.
- 9,681
- 11,103
- 3,631
- 897
Okay we are just going in circles now. Thats not how this works. Why can we just not move literally any scan or explanation to the concepts section that show that sources are a deeper concept then Gods/Order. This would literally take a few minutes and make the profile so much more readable.
- 5,091
- 2,917
A downgrade done by manipulating the vagueness of the CM description, nice.
And now you're trying to manipulate what DT said.
In the usual sense, a concept of x is expected to govern all x in the world.
A concept of fire governs all fire in the world at once.
A concept of water governs all water in the world at once.
And a concept of Naruto Uzumaki would govern all Naruto Uzumaki in the world at once, even if there is at the moment only one. If there were more, it would govern all.
In contrast, a personal concept doesn't govern all of something, but just one thing in particular.
If you point a weapon that destroys personal concepts at fire and destroy the fire concept with it, only that one fire will be erased. All other fire in existence is fine.
DontTalkDT once again;
A type 1 / 2 concept can only have a single object participate in it, but it would still be the universal concept. (As in, if a duplicate of the object were to be created, it would then participate in that same concept.)
A concept of fire governs all fire in the world at once.
A concept of water governs all water in the world at once.
And a concept of Naruto Uzumaki would govern all Naruto Uzumaki in the world at once, even if there is at the moment only one. If there were more, it would govern all.
In contrast, a personal concept doesn't govern all of something, but just one thing in particular.
If you point a weapon that destroys personal concepts at fire and destroy the fire concept with it, only that one fire will be erased. All other fire in existence is fine.
DontTalkDT once again;
A type 1 / 2 concept can only have a single object participate in it, but it would still be the universal concept. (As in, if a duplicate of the object were to be created, it would then participate in that same concept.)
Personal concepts are concepts which, by definition, only govern specific aspects about your personal existence, it doesn’t reference “scope” to mean a singular person, it’s referencing “scope” in the sphere of influence it defines, for an example; the personal conceptualization of emotions would be a considered as a Type 3 Concept since it only defines the emotions of someone, it wouldn’t define that person’s existence, ability of thought etc, nor define the personal emotions of everyone else. It’s by its sheer existence unable to be anything above Type 3 since it doesn’t define anything else within that “sphere of influence” of emotions.
The Source governs all aspects of the individual, its sphere of influence is the individual, the set it governs is the individual. It defines everything about the individual not something specific about it so it isn't type 3.
The source also fits the description for type 1 which alone proves it's not type 3.
- 5,091
- 2,917
You are by far the king. No one can take that throne from you
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,999
- 12,680
There are plenty profiles in wiki which lacks explanation feel free to delete all of them instead of asking one profile which atleast has better scans to be deleted instead
I will ask Oblivion or dread to edit that then wait.
- 3,631
- 897
I am not being spiteful here, it's interesting how you suddenly consider this a downgrade now when you where saying type 1 isn't better then type 3.
All I am asking for is a sufficient explanation for type 1 which doesn't exist in the section where you mention it like its not hard to understand.
- Status
