An Issue With Thor's Profile (Regarding Speed) Marvel Comics

[StrangeDays20]

So I was looking at Thor's profile and I saw a statement that said Earth and Asgard are spaced apart by an infinite distance and Odin's feat of sending Thor from Asgard to Earth was the reason why he was given infinite speed. What's the issue? Well Thor has gone from Earth to Asgard quite a few times and even Loki has feats of doing this like sending his soul to Earth from Asgard, sending Ulik from Asgard to Earth or simply flying to Asgard himself. So I would like to ask why they don't they get infinite speed since they have been able to cross the distance between Asgard and Earth in a short time?

Combat Related
Thor often utilises vortices in combat and in one of these instances he was able to create a vortex that sent Enchantress and the Executioner from Earth to Asgard before they could react thus if can create vortices that fast that should mean his speed can be applied in combat and of course he was able to throw his hammer from Earth to Asgard at the "speed of thought". Throwing his hammer is pretty much a standard tactic for Thor so that would be another bit of proof that his speed can be applied to combat as well. Finally he created a storm so powerful that its winds reached the Earth from Asgard this is mainly used as an AP feat. But the winds of the storm would of had to go from Asgard to Earth in a very short amount of time meaning that Thor can create winds that can go an infinite distance quickly which in my opinion is further evidence that this speed would be combat applicable.

Possibly Another Infinite Speed Feat That I Would Like An Opinion On
Basically in this story Thor had to go the different Gods of the Marvel Universe to gain power to fight the Celestials , thus it required him to go to the Myth Realms and when going to the Greek gods he goes through the fabric of infinity. I thought that this was hyperbole but in the page itself it states that "Thorough the space between the Myth Realms Thor travels" implying that it's actually an infinite space between the myth realms and the next page reinforces this by calling this space dimensions. This would make sense as Asgard has been stated many times to have a infinity void between itself and Earth so it's not far fetched that the Myth Realms could have an infinite distances between themselves as well. So I would like everyone's opinion on this feat to see if I got something wrong or not.

Possibly Immeasurable Speed?
I do think there's a way to get these feats to be immeasurable. However I want to see if these feats are legitimate in the first place before I try.

If These Feats Aren't Accepted
Then I think the reason why Thor and Loki have MFTL+ should change since their feats relating to Asgard and Earth are the reason why they have it in the first place, so if these feats aren't legitimate despite crossing the infinite void then I think they might need better reasons for being MFTL+ though this mainly applies to Loki since most of his speed feats are related to Asgard.

Conclusion
So I would like to know everyone thoughts, are these proper speed feats? Did I miss something and has this topic been already discussed? Thanks

 

[KLOL506]

@Ultima_Reality @Eseseso @Sir_Ovens @ByAsura @Qawsedf234 @Planck69 @Theglassman12 @LephyrTheRevanchist @Emirp sumitpo Since I would trust no one else to handle this, whaddya think?

 

[Eseseso]

Makes sense.

 

[Excellence616]

This is for Base Thor right?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

This is for Base Thor right?

yes

 

[Excellence616]

yes

Lots of Heralds scale to him tho.

Neutral for now

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Catzlaflame @Deagonx @Marvel_Champion_07 @LephyrTheRevanchist @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Lonkitt @LordTracer @ProfectusInfinity @M3X_2.0 @DarkDragonMedeus @Maverick_Zero_X @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Dark-Carioca

What do you think about this?

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

So I was looking at Thor's profile and I saw a statement that said Earth and Asgard are spaced apart by an infinite distance and Odin's feat of sending Thor from Asgard to Earth was the reason why he was given infinite speed. What's the issue? Well Thor has gone from Earth to Asgard quite a few times and even Loki has feats of doing this like sending his soul to Earth from Asgard, sending Ulik from Asgard to Earth or simply flying to Asgard himself. So I would like to ask why they don't they get infinite speed since they have been able to cross the distance between Asgard and Earth in a short time?

I agree with other characters that go from Asgard to Earth and vice-versa receiving infinite speed

Combat Related
Thor often utilises vortices in combat and in one of these instances he was able to create a vortex that sent Enchantress and the Executioner from Earth to Asgard before they could react thus if can create vortices that fast that should mean his speed can be applied in combat and of course he was able to throw his hammer from Earth to Asgard at the "speed of thought". Throwing his hammer is pretty much a standard tactic for Thor so that would be another bit of proof that his speed can be applied to combat as well. Finally he created a storm so powerful that its winds reached the Earth from Asgard this is mainly used as an AP feat. But the winds of the storm would of had to go from Asgard to Earth in a very short amount of time meaning that Thor can create winds that can go an infinite distance quickly which in my opinion is further evidence that this speed would be combat applicable.

Everything looks good, but i would like to ask, is there any "direct" combat speed feat? Like, "how fast can he punch" and etcetera

Possibly Another Infinite Speed Feat That I Would Like An Opinion On
Basically in this story Thor had to go the different Gods of the Marvel Universe to gain power to fight the Celestials , thus it required him to go to the Myth Realms and when going to the Greek gods he goes through the fabric of infinity. I thought that this was hyperbole but in the page itself it states that "Thorough the space between the Myth Realms Thor travels" implying that it's actually an infinite space between the myth realms and the next page reinforces this by calling this space dimensions. This would make sense as Asgard has been stated many times to have a infinity void between itself and Earth so it's not far fetched that the Myth Realms could have an infinite distances between themselves as well. So I would like everyone's opinion on this feat to see if I got something wrong or not.

Looks fine, i think

 

[StrangeDays20]

Everything looks good, but i would like to ask, is there any "direct" combat speed feat? Like, "how fast can he punch" and etcetera

I'm not sure, I don't think I was able to find one. But I do remember a feat when Thor from Asgard one shot a monster that was on Earth while going through the ten realms. Though it was when he was All - Father but it should be something that Thor can do in base in my opinion.

 

[Eficiente]

Early Thor comics heavily imply that the only reason anyone (Thor, Loki, etc.) can travel from Earth to Asgard is because of the Rainbow Bridge allowing them to do that in a way that isn't always visually shown or said on text (If there are statements such that the Rainbow Bridge is the only way to cross both places & the like), this is more strongly established during many comics after Thor Vol 1 353 because the Rainbow Bridge was destroyed and no one could travel from Earth to Asgard and the other way around, at best using alternative means to do so that were dangerous & annoying to them.

So not only are those not Infinite speed feats, I'm very sure that the distance between Earth and Asgard isn't even infinite in the first place. The problem is that when bs like that gets accepted it takes 20 times more effort to gather all the evidence against it, it's very demotivating.

Possibly Another Infinite Speed Feat That I Would Like An Opinion On
Basically in this story Thor had to go the different Gods of the Marvel Universe to gain power to fight the Celestials , thus it required him to go to the Myth Realms and when going to the Greek gods he goes through the fabric of infinity. I thought that this was hyperbole but in the page itself it states that "Thorough the space between the Myth Realms Thor travels" implying that it's actually an infinite space between the myth realms and the next page reinforces this by calling this space dimensions. This would make sense as Asgard has been stated many times to have a infinity void between itself and Earth so it's not far fetched that the Myth Realms could have an infinite distances between themselves as well. So I would like everyone's opinion on this feat to see if I got something wrong or not.

"Getting through" is meaningless because he doesn't cross the entirety of it or a fraction, just an unknown part in it. Even then this is just Dimensional Travel.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

So not only are those not Infinite speed feats, I'm very sure that the distance between Earth and Asgard isn't even infinite in the first place. The problem is that when bs like that gets accepted it takes 20 times more effort to gather all the evidence against it, it's very demotivating.

And thats why comic books powerscaling is a mess!!

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think Infinite speed sound pretty outlierish for base Thor.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Gonna stay neutral for now

 

[Antvasima]

Early Thor comics heavily imply that the only reason anyone (Thor, Loki, etc.) can travel from Earth to Asgard is because of the Rainbow Bridge allowing them to do that in a way that isn't always visually shown or said on text (If there are statements such that the Rainbow Bridge is the only way to cross both places & the like), this is more strongly established during many comics after Thor Vol 1 353 because the Rainbow Bridge was destroyed and no one could travel from Earth to Asgard and the other way around, at best using alternative means to do so that were dangerous & annoying to them.

So not only are those not Infinite speed feats, I'm very sure that the distance between Earth and Asgard isn't even infinite in the first place. The problem is that when bs like that gets accepted it takes 20 times more effort to gather all the evidence against it, it's very demotivating.

"Getting through" is meaningless because he doesn't cross the entirety of it or a fraction, just an unknown part in it. Even then this is just Dimensional Travel.

This seems reasonable to me.

 

[StrangeDays20]

Early Thor comics heavily imply that the only reason anyone (Thor, Loki, etc.) can travel from Earth to Asgard is because of the Rainbow Bridge allowing them to do that in a way that isn't always visually shown or said on text (If there are statements such that the Rainbow Bridge is the only way to cross both places & the like), this is more strongly established during many comics after Thor Vol 1 353 because the Rainbow Bridge was destroyed and no one could travel from Earth to Asgard and the other way around, at best using alternative means to do so that were dangerous & annoying to them.

Interesting, but I'm wondering does this affect the speed at which they go to Asgard? Because when they normally go through the distance it's often emphasised that it's their speed so maybe the rainbow allows them to access the places but it doesn't help them go any faster. Especially since they weren't on the bridge when they performed the feats.

Plus, some of the feats mentioned had little to do with travelling to Earth or Asgrad directly.

"Getting through" is meaningless because he doesn't cross the entirety of it or a fraction, just an unknown part in it. Even then this is just Dimensional Travel.

I disagree. The narration says that went through the space implying that he needed to go through the space between the myth realms before he met the Greek Gods and I don't think it shows that he only went through a portion of it. And diemesional travel in some cases can speed feats if they solely relied on their movement in order to access other dimensions.

 

[Eficiente]

Interesting, but I'm wondering does this affect the speed at which they go to Asgard? Because when they normally go through the distance it's often emphasised that it's their speed so maybe the rainbow allows them to access the places but it doesn't help them go any faster. Especially since they weren't on the bridge when they performed the feats.

Plus, some of the feats mentioned had little to do with travelling to Earth or Asgrad directly.

On "Especially since they weren't on the bridge when they performed the feats.", as I said before, this is done "in a way that isn't always visually shown or said on text", the tiny bit of lore exists that it's the bridge what allows the Dimensional Travel and you're meant to know that every time they travel from one place to another regardless of how it isn't shown. It stands to reason that the way the bridge works is like this on purpose rather than "not showing the bridge being because they missed to add it".

They also play fast & loose with "where the bridge is", at a glance you would think you need to stand on top of it, but actually its effects are all over Asgard and the skies of Earth & near outer space areas, if not in the whole universe.

The problem is that the Rainbow Bridge doesn't teleport them from one place to another most of the time, they still need to move a physical distance for the Dimensional Travel to trigger. This makes it inhereditary more likely for we to assume that the Rainbow Bridge helps them travel those distances faster and that their own speed shown in those displays is unquantifiable, regardless of how they are moving at some speed themselves. Think about it, are you saying that because you actually believe it's more likely or are you throwin ideas to salvage the Infinite speed feats? That would be on its own, but then there is evidence in favor of that take;

• "Once the shinning Rainbow Bridge connected Asgard, home of the mighty Norse gods, with Midgard, home of ordinary mortals... ...and those who traveled between the worlds needed simply to walk across her crystaline length. But the bridge is gone, destroyed by the hand of war, and only those who are heroic enough... ...or foolish enough... ...now dare to set their lives at hazard against the cosmic storms that rage between those ancient realms."
• Thor was traveling from Earth to Asgard for days, and he needed to save Asgard from Loki.

In other comics the Rainbow Bridge does in fact teleport targets from one place to another, w/o them needing to move (Like in the movies), which also ruins the notion that their speed would be their own when they travel across it. I might be misremembering but I think people have also walked like normal across the bridge too to cross it.

I disagree. The narration says that went through the space implying that he needed to go through the space between the myth realms before he met the Greek Gods and I don't think it shows that he only went through a portion of it. And diemesional travel in some cases can speed feats if they solely relied on their movement in order to access other dimensions.

Well, this is problematic, you're picking & choosing what to take literally while not putting everything in perspective, and you know reasons that would salvage feats but you use them for the sake of using them rather than letting them come naturally. If at the end of the day you find my words to hold some truth then please reconsider things up. Let's go over the panels bit by bit:

• page 1 (Thor flies)
  • "He uses the mallet's power to transgress the fabric of infinity itself..."
  • "'tis fortunate that all-father Odin's...state... affects only my hammer's enchantments. Its innate space-spanning powers seem intact!"
• (Thor keeps flying) "Through the space between myth-realms Thor travels, his destination-- the other-worldly spires of mount Olympus, home of the gods of ancient Greece and Rome..."
• page 2 "The mighty Thor once again speeds between the dimensions which separete the many god-realms, propelled by his mystic mallet"

This is just Dimensional Travel with some amount of space travel.

• First of all "the fabric of infinity" or "the fabric of" anything doesn't refer to the entirety of something unless proven, it can be an unquantifiable part of something. That right of the bat means that he never travels an infinite something.
  • But even if he did, the text would say "He uses the mallet's power to transgress [infinity] itself...", which wouldn't mean he traveled an infinite distance, but that his travel takes place in infinity, ie reality.
  • "I don't think it shows that he only went through a portion of it" is nonsense, you're making up that he traveled that much as it can't be shown in images and the text doesn't establish it.
• The text doesn't "imply he needed to go through", it says & shows that he needed to travel distances, you elevate what those distances are, Thor is just flying from planet to planet in the comic while mixing in Dimensional Travel.
• "crossing Universes is unquantifiable for speed unless details are specifically stated".
  • Also no, this isn't "solely relied on [Thor's] movement in order to access other dimensions", it's explicitly stated that he's using his hammer's Dimensional Travel to help himself too. You simply felt appropriate to say that because "you saw movements", and yes, there were movements too.

 

[Eseseso]

Switching to neutral, leaning disagree since this seems like an outlier for Herald Tiers.

The majority of Infinite speed people in the verse are Skyfather to Celestial Tiers (Odin, Zeus, Uatu, Celestials, etc.)

 

[StrangeDays20]

Good points

"Once the shinning Rainbow Bridge connected Asgard, home of the mighty Norse gods, with Midgard, home of ordinary mortals... ...and those who traveled between the worlds needed simply to walk across her crystaline length.

This part seems to imply that you need to be on the bridge on the bridge for it to take you "simply needed to walk across her crystaline length".

I'm okay with the idea of the rainbow bridge increasing the speed of which you enter Asgard but I would like a statement about the bridges capabilities if that's okay with you.

And Thor does have feats relating to Asgard that don't involve travelling there directly. It would be debatable to see that it was solely because of the rainbow bridge in these situations.

I would also like to ask since Thor was turned into a frog when he was travelling to Asgrad wouldn't that mean his abilities and capabilities wouldn't be work as well (though he was still quite strong)? Heck, he doesn't even use Mjölnir to travel but the goats are they as fast as Mjölnir? Are there other instances where he took longer to travel without the rainbow bridge in his normal form?

And even if he took longer than usual traveling an infinite distance even in days is still somewhat impressive. Heck doing it in months is impressive.

 

[StrangeDays20]

Anyways it seems infinite speed is going to be a labelled as an outliner (which is understandable) so unless there's anything else that has to be done I don't mind closing this thread.

 

[Eficiente]

Switching to neutral, leaning disagree since this seems like an outlier for Herald Tiers.

The majority of Infinite speed people in the verse are Skyfather to Celestial Tiers (Odin, Zeus, Uatu, Celestials, etc.)

It would be an outlier if it was a legit feat in the first place. Medeus' comment was kind of out of place and only based on what he already knows rather than what was said in the thread. I don't honestly think you read and understood the thread to properly hold an opinion about it, but rather that you took it at its word at first and then realized things weren't as simple in a vague way. I say this because even being neutral implies you read and understood everything, and if I'm correct what you should have done instead is drop your position altogether.

This part seems to imply that you need to be on the bridge on the bridge for it to take you "simply needed to walk across her crystaline length".

I'm okay with the idea of the rainbow bridge increasing the speed of which you enter Asgard but I would like a statement about the bridges capabilities if that's okay with you.

Well, again, don't take it too literally, they have used many times the bridge w/o being on it, meaning that "being on it" is a stand in for being reached by its effects.

I don't know if anywhere it says so explicitly but it's something that can be concluded from other information.

And Thor does have feats relating to Asgard that don't involve travelling there directly. It would be debatable to see that it was solely because of the rainbow bridge in these situations.

Not really. Remember that Asgard is both the name of the city and the realm. Since everyone on Asgard, even Thor, couldn't travel from Earth to Asgard like normal with the bridge broken, it stands to reason that the times they crossed both places was because of the bridge. Especially when the reason against it is just "that doesn't seem to be the case", which is void when the way the bridge works isn't always shown.

I would also like to ask since Thor was turned into a frog when he was travelling to Asgrad wouldn't that mean his abilities and capabilities wouldn't be work as well (though he was still quite strong)? Heck, he doesn't even use Mjölnir to travel but the goats are they as fast as Mjölnir? Are there other instances where he took longer to travel without the rainbow bridge in his normal form?

I tried to see if he was weaker and that doesn't seem to be the case as the hammer gives anyone the powers of Thor. The best I got is him telling Loki "I beat you as a frog, I can beat you like normal", which more so implies he's less comfortable as a frog. Aside from that you can see in comics around that one that that's how a regular Thor travels from realm to realm now due to the bridge being destroyed.

And even if he took longer than usual traveling an infinite distance even in days is still somewhat impressive. Heck doing it in months is impressive.

You can't have your cake and eat it, if you say that the distance is infinite & he can travel it fast then you can't say the distance is infinite & it can take him days, you need to recognize that his ability to travel that fast isn't his own. I can't remove how we view the distance to be infinite in this thread, I need to gather scans and read more comics to see if they have more to offer and have it all informatively presented in a blog so that it lasts, could take me years just to find the motivation.

 

[Eseseso]

It would be an outlier if it was a legit feat in the first place. Medeus' comment was kind of out of place and only based on what he already knows rather than what was said in the thread. I don't honestly think you read and understood the thread to properly hold an opinion about it, but rather that you took it at its word at first and then realized things weren't as simple in a vague way. I say this because even being neutral implies you read and understood everything, and if I'm correct what you should have done instead is drop your position altogether.

Wow.

Disrespecting my opinion and DDM's because you don't agree with them.

My opinion is the same, but I'm leaving since I'm not putting up with Efi's behavior.

Unbecoming of a thread mod to be so rude of dissenting opinions.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that Eficiente seemed to be particularly rude above.

 

[Eseseso]

I do not think that Eficiente seemed to be particularly rude above.

With all due respect, he insulted my response and also ridiculed DDM's responses and accused us both of not reading the OP simply because we disagreed with him.

And this condescending and rudely blunt behavior is something that is done too often on Efi's part.

 

[Eficiente]

You're being ridiculous and overly dramatic, let's break this down.

Medeus' comment was kind of out of place and only based on what he already knows rather than what was said in the thread.

I think Infinite speed sound pretty outlierish for base Thor.

While Medeus is correct, this is something that could be said anywhere rather than as a response to this thread. It doesn't say if the feats are correct, but that whether or not that's the case it wouldn't change our stats, something that can reasonably be said to be disingenuous. It doesn't give the proposals the chance to be correct, and it actually wouldn't be ridiculous for someone to read it & think "They're not even giving this a chance and they're not trying too hard".

I see this as basic stuff, it can all be inferred from what I said about his comment, yet what are your takes on that?

Wow.

Disrespecting my opinion and DDM's because you don't agree with them.

With all due respect, he insulted my response and also ridiculed DDM's responses and accused us both of not reading the OP simply because we disagreed with him.

• This can't be because he disagrees with me in the first place because his comment is a bit alien to the thread on its own, I don't even know if he disagrees with me.
• I didn't disrespect, insult, or ridicule his opinion, I evaluated his contribution. In life sometimes doing that doesn't look nice, you would do better in knowing the difference and knowing where to draw the line of where real disrespect, insult, or ridicule starts.
• Whether Medeus read the OP or not doesn't matter as my point is that his comment doesn't reflect that he did. Calling me out on reflecting that as if I wasn't allowed to make that observation is ridiculous.

Why did I comment over Medeus' comment? Because your own take was similar if not the same (It was the same as you later say), thereby making me try to get to the root to better the discussion.

Switching to neutral, leaning disagree since this seems like an outlier for Herald Tiers.

I already evaluated that pretty well here, it's more of the same

Wow.

Disrespecting my opinion and DDM's because you don't agree with them.

My opinion is the same, but I'm leaving since I'm not putting up with Efi's behavior.

Unbecoming of a thread mod to be so rude of dissenting opinions.

With all due respect, he insulted my response and also ridiculed DDM's responses and accused us both of not reading the OP simply because we disagreed with him.

I did not disrespect, insult, or ridicule your opinion, I believe my observation could be reasonably inferred and it just so happen that it isn't a nice thing to say. You don't like it? That's one thing. You believe it's bad behavior, unbecoming of a thread mod, and too rule? We don't have the same perception then, to me this is being offended unreasonably and childishly, something worth calling out and for you to improve over. I would need to have a better written ruleset of things I'm not allowed to do or say to view things the same way as you; Am I not allowed to infer or imply that users didn't read parts of a thread if I conclude that to be the case? Am I not allowed to infer or imply that a comment doesn't reply the OP if I conclude that to be the case? Am I not allowed to portray negatively things by way of actually just disagreeing with them and/or explaining my thought process? I would like to know at what point I stop being unbecoming of a thread mod just because others disagree with me, as they say. Am I allowed to do all that but it's the general way I come across what's wrong? Good, grab the first thing you're certain anyone should be disallowed to word that way and break down why you believe that to be the case and how a rule against doing so would look like.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I know it does mention Infinite distance, but the rainbow bridge argument while unsure how to interpret it but I know it doesn't have to be infinite in size to grant someone dimensional travel from point A to point B. I don't have the strongest opinions on the feats individually being infinite given how inconsistent Marvel tends to be with the statements. But I still disagree with base Thor and those who scale from him being Infinite speed regardless as even if they were legit, the best case scenario is the feats still being outliers.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Infinite speed is universally agreed to be an outlier, so is it fine to close this per the OP’s suggestion?

Anyways it seems infinite speed is going to be a labelled as an outliner (which is understandable) so unless there's anything else that has to be done I don't mind closing this thread.

 

[Antvasima]

Infinite speed is universally agreed to be an outlier, so is it fine to close this per the OP’s suggestion?

I think so, yes.

Thank you to everybody who helped out here.