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Alien X Upgrade

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Firestorm808 said:
Ben 10 Omniverse - Universe vs. Tennyso

  • Starbeard: Ben Tennyson. Did you think you would escape our notice when you utilized your Celestialsapien form, Alien X, to recreate the entire universe and everything in it?
  • Ben: I was too late to save the universe and everything in it from being destroyed, so I used Alien X to make an exact duplicate.
Click to expand...
This is being taken out of context.

Ben is saying he was "too late" because the Annilaargh was activated before he could stop it from being acitvated. Not that the universe was completely destroyed before he used Alien X to make a duplicate one.
 
It's not being taken out of context.

The Anihalarg is erasing everything. Alien X says it's too late to stop the erasure. Erasurse is still happening to everything, so Alien X recreates everything.

The whole point of the trial is to clarify what happened that day.
 
Firestorm808 said:
It's not being taken out of context.
The Anihalarg is erasing everything. Alien X says it's too late to stop the erasure.
Click to expand...
Exactly, because the erasure has already started. And Ben cant stop it without getting permission from Bellicus and Serena to use Alien X to fix it. Basically, its this:

-Ben turns into Alien X

-Anihalarg activates

-Anihalaarg starts destroying the universe

-Ben tries getting permission to use Alien X while the universe is being destroyed.

Ben didnt get permission to use Alien X before the universe started getting destroyed is my point. The Annilaargh didnt completely finish wiping the universe away before Ben could fix it.
 
I think that Kukui seems to make sense about the time bomb, but do not think that Alien X should be downgraded from Low 2-C.
 
It's stated multiple times that Ben recreated everything and didn't stop the Anihalarg. He saved nothing from being destroyed.

  • Ben: Belicus, Serena, you got to let me use Alien X to stop the Annihilarrgh! Hey, I finally said it.
  • Bellicus: Oh, it's too late for that.
  • Ben: What? I-it can't be!
  • Bellicus: Serena. Fine, but the next time the universe and everything in it is destroyed, don't come crying to me.
  • Ben: I know, right? I was too late to save the universe, so I used Alien X to make a whole new one.
  • Starbeard: Ben Tennyson. Did you think you would escape our notice when you utilized your Celestialsapien form, Alien X, to recreate the entire universe and everything in it?
  • Ben: I was too late to save the universe and everything in it from being destroyed, so I used Alien X to make an exact duplicate.
 
I honestly think scaling from the chrononavigator as opposed to the time bomb is a legit possibility, but that depends what exactly Paradox's remarks on the celestiasapiens was. This side of the arguments wasn't explored nearly as much as the time bomb scaling

I also don't really know if the time bomb thing being an anti feat for alien x has been disproven without a doubt yet
 
Max: A complete map of space-time?

Azmuth: Extending through 17 dimensions. With it, one could travel anywhere. So valuable is this map that Professor paradox himself divided it into four pieces and hid them throughout the galaxy.

Paradox: It is the source of the universe's greatest power. It's where ideas become real.

Paradox: Aggregor intends to absorb the abilities of a newborn Celestialsapien. Should he succeed, he will become omnipotent.

The power of the Chrono Navigator can be used by anyone else as shown by Eon. Paradox calls Celestialsapiens the greatest power compared to him and his watch. Aggregor had the map of infinity, a complete map of all space-time similar to the Chrono Navigator. He could have chased after Paradox for his watch, but he went for the Celestialsapiens instead.
 
Antvasima said:
We don't know if the Generator Rex statement is considered as literal and reliable, or just as a figure of speech.
Click to expand...
Both shows were made by Man of Action and it's from a crossover featuring both main characters.
 
Firestorm808 said:
It's stated multiple times that Ben recreated everything and didn't stop the Anihalarg. He saved nothing from being destroyed.
Click to expand...
Portrayls >>>>>>>>>>>>> Statements as priority, so the statements can simply just be wrong.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Portrayls >>>>>>>>>>>>> Statements as priority, so the statements can simply just be wrong.
Click to expand...
By the time Serena asks Bellicus to agree, Bellicus implies that the universe is already destroyed.

Bellicus: Serena. Fine, but the next time the universe and everything in it is destroyed, don't come crying to me.

He doesn't say "is being destroyed."
 
Yes. I am proposing Alien X be scaled to the Chrono Navigator and the Chronosapien Time Bomb by in-show statements and a feat.
 
Firestorm808 said:
By the time Serena asks Bellicus to agree, Bellicus implies that the universe is already destroyed.

Bellicus: Serena. Fine, but the next time the universe and everything in it is destroyed, don't come crying to me.

He doesn't say "is being destroyed."
Click to expand...
I already addressed this. We literally see the universe being in the middle of being destroyed from within Alien X. Even when Bellicus agrees to give Ben control, the universe is still being destroyed.
 
Whether or not the old universe was in the process of being destroyed or already destroyed, in what way does creating a new universe stop the destruction of the old one?
 
VioletVoid100 said:
Antvasima said:
We don't know if the Generator Rex statement is considered as literal and reliable, or just as a figure of speech.
Click to expand...
Both shows were made by Man of Action and it's from a crossover featuring both main characters.
Click to expand...
I think the reservation is being made less about whether the actual crossover is canon(it is), and more about whether Holiday is being literal/knowledgable, which is fair. At the beginning Holiday actually didn't believe in parralel dimensions, calling them a theory. This is Holiday at the end fo the special, after she's come to believe Ben and Caesar and is properly educated on the subject. As the series demonstrates she has heightened intelligence that lets her properly piece together how something functions once she has all the facts before her. There's not really any hint she's exaggerating in full context, especially with Bobo's response.

Agent Six: I hear you had a little help.

Rex: Yeah, when his monster watch wasn't conked out. Ben was a cool kid. I wonder if I'll ever see him again.

Dr. Holiday: With infinite dimensions, the math doesn't work in your favor, Rex.

Bobo Haha: Math - the enemy of all things good.

Agent Six: Although, the cosmos works in mysterious ways. I think certain people are meant to meet - to fight side-by-side - to be friends. You may see one another sooner than you think.
 
Can we please save the 2-B vs 2-A proposals for later?

The current thread's topic is the scaling of Alien X.
 
The Annihilarg, CTB, and Alien X are related to whether the universe is considered to have infinite parralel dimensions or not. IE Rex is Low 2-C at the end by virtue of control over his parralel dimension, but if there are infinite parralel dimensions in what's considered to be "the universe" each functioning as a universe on its own then the timeline debate is moot.
 
This is getting off topic, but I'll explain.

Similar to DC's Hypertime, each alternate timeline is it's own universe. At the finale, Rex has control over his branch in the timeline. This is Low 2-C. Ben Prime's timeline is of a different branch but still sprout from the same Big Bang roots of which the timelines diverge.

The use of dimension in the crossover is a misnomer. For example, alternate dimensions for Ben Prime are the Null Void and Ledgerdomain. Each Ben 10 timeline has it's own Null Void and Ledgerdomain. Ben and Rex are from alternate timelines, not dimensions.

However, one could use this to argue for infinite timelines, but I have my reservations on just this one instance.
 
I get what you're saying, but my issue with this is that in Store 23 they expressly described this kind of travel as not time travel, but dimension travel. Moreover, this is especially odd when what linked them was the Null Void dimension. Following your logic Caesar would have sent the Alpha to THEIR Null Void dimension. But as they are all a part of the infinite parralel dimensions in the same effective timeline, their Null Void is Ben Prime's Null Void and that's how the Alpha reached Ben in the first place. Each timeline would have its own set of infinite dimensions, but on how many there are I don't want to weigh in becuase I haven't watched those episodes recently.

I think this is directly related to the original topic, but if it really is too much off the current topic I can drop this here and pick it up later or in a different thread if that's more convenient.
 
@Corporal

How a universe develops throughout it's history varies. Some may not develope alternate dimensions, and some will. Not all dimensions will develope like others. I believe the girl with multiple arms has access to another dimension in Rex's timeline.
 
Corporal Atlas said:
VioletVoid100 said:
Antvasima said:
We don't know if the Generator Rex statement is considered as literal and reliable, or just as a figure of speech.
Click to expand...
Both shows were made by Man of Action and it's from a crossover featuring both main characters.
Click to expand...
I think the reservation is being made less about whether the actual crossover is canon(it is), and more about whether Holiday is being literal/knowledgable, which is fair. At the beginning Holiday actually didn't believe in parralel dimensions, calling them a theory. This is Holiday at the end fo the special, after she's come to believe Ben and Caesar and is properly educated on the subject. As the series demonstrates she has heightened intelligence that lets her properly piece together how something functions once she has all the facts before her. There's not really any hint she's exaggerating in full context, especially with Bobo's response.
Agent Six: I hear you had a little help.

Rex: Yeah, when his monster watch wasn't conked out. Ben was a cool kid. I wonder if I'll ever see him again.

Dr. Holiday: With infinite dimensions, the math doesn't work in your favor, Rex.

Bobo Haha: Math - the enemy of all things good.

Agent Six: Although, the cosmos works in mysterious ways. I think certain people are meant to meet - to fight side-by-side - to be friends. You may see one another sooner than you think.
Click to expand...
So...the clip has context behind it and is still valid.
 
Can we please set aside 2-B vs 2-A proposals for another thread?

I would like to conclude the Alien X scaling discussion first.
 
Not too familiar with the verse, but I think Kukui makes sense.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Max: A complete map of space-time?

Azmuth: Extending through 17 dimensions. With it, one could travel anywhere. So valuable is this map that Professor paradox himself divided it into four pieces and hid them throughout the galaxy.

Paradox: It is the source of the universe's greatest power. It's where ideas become real.

Paradox: Aggregor intends to absorb the abilities of a newborn Celestialsapien. Should he succeed, he will become omnipotent.

The power of the Chrono Navigator can be used by anyone else as shown by Eon. Paradox calls Celestialsapiens the greatest power compared to him and his watch. Aggregor had the map of infinity, a complete map of all space-time similar to the Chrono Navigator. He could have chased after Paradox for his watch, but he went for the Celestialsapiens instead.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I do feel this makes a case for scaling to the navigator. If Paradox considers Celestialsapiens to be the greatest source of power then he would at least be placing them above a device he carries with him all the time. Also the forge of creation exists outside the universe to begin with, so the statement couldn't be referring to it being the greatest power within a single universe, more likely it is the greatest power Paradox has encountered anywhere
 
Honestly what mostly holdbacks Alien X from 2-A or (any higher rating) is the whole deal with Atomic-X, but in all honestly Atomic-X is consistently High 5-A through the series.
 
Atomic X got owned by Maltruent, so we really shouldn't be scaling him with Alien X in the first place. Atomic X should just be "At least 5-A, likely higher."
 
Yeah, the evil bens' strongest aliens should be around Way Big level at most which Atomic-X fought but still wasnt able to one-shot, If he was around Celestialsapien level not only he would have one-shotted all of them, he would have killed Vilgax with a single touch.

And as Firestorm mentioned, in "The End of an Era" he was trading blows with Maltruent (Who most likely should be around 5-A level) and ultimately defeated, the feats heavily outweigh the whole "Alien X<Atomic-X cuz' is a fusion" argument.
 
He would most likely be upgraded, at the very least he has fought some of Ben's Tier 7 Aliens constantly.
 
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