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Atomic-X tiering adjustment

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MrLuk2000

MrLuk2000

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This was something that was brought up in a thread relating Alien X and I thought to make a CRT about this. Atomic-X is currently rated as a Low 2-C just because he has Celestialsapien DNA, however there are several problems with this.

First off when Ben 10K transformed into Atomic-X to take on Maltruent not only was he able to get a hit in, but he literally got one shotted by an energy blast and he transformed back into human form.

Secondly (if this is acceptable) I have a hard problem of Atomic-X being relatively even CLOSE to Alien X's level as Alien X's natural world is out of sync with time, so Alien X naturally speaking should be resistant to Time Manipulation abilities yet, we see Atomic-X being affected by the time slow ability Maltruent used.

Finally, if Atomic-X was Universal+, then in the episode of "Then there was none part 2" when Atomic X flicked Vilgax, that attack should have atomized him to bits where Vilgax in Omniverse is only 7-A.

All in all with Atomic-X's short appearance, I don't see him being Low 2-C at all. I suggest we downgrade him to an "At least High 5-A"

Also, for Humungoopsaur, he should be downgraded to an "At least 7-A". He couldn't even punch through a damn door. This feat highly contradicts him being Dwarf Star level
 
Humungoopsaur is currently scaled to Buzzshock 10k to Future Animo to Four Arms 10k to Kevin 11k.
 
I agree.

Atomic X < Maltruant < Big Bang < Contemelia Shield < Alien X
 
Maltruant, physically, is weak, but his energy/time beams should scale to Atomic X.
 
Just going to say that all of this was already taken into account and discussed in the Everlasting downgrade thread.

Atomic-X being harmed or beaten by Maltruent is massive PIS.
 
Why do we scale Atomic-X to Alien X, does he even have any feats to support Low 2-C? Don't we take actual showings over assumptions?

Or was he stated to be comparable to Alien X?
 
We compare Atomic-X to Alien X because half of his DNA is composed of Alien X. Going off the fact that this is Ben 10K's Alien X DNA-which would be about the same as normal Ben 10's DNA-they scale.
 
But... why does that mean he scales?

Is it stated that having some DNA from something makes it comparable to the original?
 
I think it is usually just common sense that being the fusion of two characters means you would be stronger than either of the characters individually. The assumption in general makes sense but I dunno if it's disproven here
 
Think of it this way:

-Fusion in Ben 10 is addition. Consider Alien X to be 1, Atomix to be 0.01. 1 + 0.01 = 1.01, as in, the fusion is stronger than either individual number.

-However, several people believe that Ben 10 Fusion is multiplication. As in, 1 * 0.01 = 0.01, meaning that the fusion in the case of Alien X and Atomix is weaker.
 
Is that stated in the series or is that an assumption we're making? Don't we go with actual showing over our assumptions? If there's even a single statement that proves Atomic-X scales to Alien X, then I can understand the rating.

Also the fusion aliens aren't the two aliens combined, it having half of Atomix's DNA and half of Alien X's DNA. Not 100% Alien X added with 100% Atomix.

Once again, is there a single statement or showing that proves Atomic-X scales? That's all I'm asking, proof from the actual show.
 
First off, on this wiki if an assumption is reasonable, we go by it.


The reasonable assumption here is that Atomic X is as strong as Alien X for a few reasons: -Ben 10K has Alien X in his omnitrix, which is as strong as normal Ben 10's Alien X -If Alien X was weaker than Atomic X in that situation he wouldn't have used him. Keep in mind, he and 6/7 others were about to die so it was pretty important. -The fusion aliens are most certainly two aliens combined.
 
With normal aliens, they should be stronger than the stronger half, but with Alien X DNA, it becomes more complicated.
 
That's still an assumption.

Also that logic doesn't make sense. With that logic, why does Ben 10K use any alien besides Atomic-X if he's the strongest? Also what do you mean they're going to die?

What are you refering to?
 
He used Atomic-X in the Time War, attempting to stop a Time Bomb from destroying him that would've killed every Ben in every timeline. He was staring death in the face right there, and not in the form of 'powerful explosion', but moreso 'you die if you touch this and it will definitely touch you'. He'd use his strongest alien here without a doubt.

Also. Assumptions aren't bad by nature, what the ****? Good assumptions compose 90% of powerscaling. Without assumptions, vs debating couldn't be possible.

....I mean, we're only assuming that alien X secretly isn't a Wookiee. A very, very, very good assumption, but still an assumption,,,
 
I heard that Ben 10K didn't know that the Chrono Navigator would kill off many timelines.

Is that true?
 
Atomic-X was upgraded to Alien X's level because of the Chrono Navigator. Saying that he would've used Alien X to try to stop it if he was stronger than Atomic-X.

Note: Please do not attempt to scale Alien X to the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Not only was Atomic X unable to stop it, it would be nonsensical for Ben 10,000 to utilize an alien that is infinitely weaker to stop a multiversal weapon

Problem, apparently Ben 10K didn't know what that explosion was, he didn't know it would destroy all universes except for one. So that reasoning is flawed, since he didn't know how powerful the threat was.
 
Fourmungosaur has shown abolustely nothing to be scaled to High 5-A, Humungoopsaur has never shown to do anything near High 5-A "At least" is written on their page i highly suggest please downgrade them to High 7-A Likely higher which is used for most of ben's aliens.

Atomic X should be High 5-a he has show nothing to be even capable of being Universal level.Just because he has Celestialsapien Dna doesn't mean he scales higher than him or equal, Heck even chromastone got Celestialspaien Dna here (It was very helpful it cut through a shield which none of his alien should made by Contemellia who are 5-th Dimensional beings) But that doesn't mean he is on the same level as Alien X !. Dna is helpful but not the same please take all of these in notice.
 
I think when it comes to mixing Alien X DNA, it becomes weaker as a trade off to not have Serena and Bellicus as shown by the lack of other personalities and the lack of Time Manipulation.
 
What we should ask ourselves is if there are any notable tradeoffs for said alien fusion.

A Humungusaur with 4 arms seems legit stronger than a normal Ben 10k Fourarms.

A Heatblast and Ripjaws fusion is a bust.

Jury Rig and Upgrade seems fine.

Not sure about Humungoopsaur trade offs.
 
Firestorm808 said:
What we should ask ourselves is if there are any notable tradeoffs for said alien fusion.
A Humungusaur with 4 arms seems legit stronger than a normal Ben 10k Fourarms.

A Heatblast and Ripjaws fusion is a bust.

Jury Rig and Upgrade seems fine.

Not sure about Humungoopsaur trade offs.
Click to expand...
Heatblast and Ripjaws fusion was created from a faulty omnitrix. Fourmungusaur was created from a Biometrix created by Azmuth. You can't really compare the two.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Atomic-X was upgraded to Alien X's level because of the Chrono Navigator. Saying that he would've used Alien X to try to stop it if he was stronger than Atomic-X.
Note: Please do not attempt to scale Alien X to the Chronosapien Time Bomb. Not only was Atomic X unable to stop it, it would be nonsensical for Ben 10,000 to utilize an alien that is infinitely weaker to stop a multiversal weapon

Problem, apparently Ben 10K didn't know what that explosion was, he didn't know it would destroy all universes except for one. So that reasoning is flawed, since he didn't know how powerful the threat was.
Click to expand...
Even if Ben 10K wasn't explicitly aware of what the explosion was, he still considered it a big enough threat to warrant transforming into one of the most powerful aliens in existence. That alone should be proof that he considered to be an instant-death level threat. And if he thought it was all or nothing, why wouldn't he use his strongest alien at the time?

And I'm not trying to scale Alien X to the Time Bomb.
 
I'm not trying to scale him to the bomb either.

Atomic-X only scales to Alien X because of the bomb though. That's written on his profile. But Ben 10K didn't know the bomb could kill him, he saw a big explosion and chose Atomic-X

He used Atomic-X against Vilgax and Maltruent, neither of them are big threats. Ben 10K used Atomic-X because he wanted to, nothing more and nothing less.

As of yet, there is no proof that Atomic-X scales to Alien X.
 
Vilgax and Maltruant are some of the strongest villains in the Ben 10 verse, Maltruant in particular was enough of a threat to be the final villain for the entire series. And this is future Ben 10-remember, this is the Ben 10 who, at one point, found the need to completely mutilate Vilgax at a point.

They're very big threats.
 
Fusions aren't combining their DNA, it halves their DNA. It even says in the Ben 10 Wiki that Atomic X is 50% Celestialsapien and 50% Atomix's DNA

Let's bring a hypothetical situation here. If Krillin (100% human) was to fuse with Goku (100% Saiyan) with the Potoras, would the fusion be 100% human and 100% Saiyan? That literally makes no sense. Logically he would be 50% Saiyan and Human. A 100% of both? There is no logic behind that.
 
Contemellia are 5-th Dimensional beings

so they should be High 2-A no?

but why they are low 2-C?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System

High Multiverse level+: Characters who are 5-dimensional, and/or can destroy and/or create 5-dimensional space-time constructs of a not insignificant size. Characters who can destroy and/or create an uncountably infinite numbers of universes may potentially also be assigned this tier, as their geometrical 5-D size can be higher than 0.


bold put Contemellia at High 2-A cuz they are 5th Dimensional beings
 
It's in the note. 5-D characters only really possess that infinite superiority over 4-Ds if a fiction chooses to portray it that way, and this doesn't seem to have been a case where it did
 
Omimi said:
Contemellia are 5-th Dimensional beings
so they should be High 2-A no?

but why they are low 2-C?

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tiering_System

High Multiverse level+: Characters who are 5-dimensional, and/or can destroy and/or create 5-dimensional space-time constructs of a not insignificant size. Characters who can destroy and/or create an uncountably infinite numbers of universes may potentially also be assigned this tier, as their geometrical 5-D size can be higher than 0.


bold put Contemellia at High 2-A cuz they are 5th Dimensional beings
Click to expand...
Oh boy we're gonna Calculate Contrmellia now LoL that's another topic tho.
 
Fourmungosaur was seen putting up a good fight against snare Oh and Gravattack why is he High 5 A ? Humungoopsaur can't punch a gate is for unknown reasons is rated High 5 A that's misleading.
 
About the Contimellia, no, we've already dealt with that.

While they are 5-D beings, they dont scale to 5-D power. The Contimellia need the Annilaargh to even do Low 2-C feats and are completely featless otherwise. Aside from that, we also just don't automatically scale characters to their dimensionality without explicit evidence.
 
i thought 5-D beings = instantly make them High 2-A

well i guess i was wrong
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
About the Contimellia, no, we've already dealt with that.
While they are 5-D beings, they dont scale to 5-D power. The Contimellia need the Annilaargh to even do Low 2-C feats and are completely featless otherwise. Aside from that, we also just don't automatically scale characters to their dimensionality without explicit evidence.
Click to expand...
They themselves have said that they are 5th dimensional yes they uses technology but why even scale them ? it's pointless they have shown 0 feats ,their job is to make universes and refuses to fight enemies like they didn't do anything to Maltruant.
 
The Problem with Ben 10K was that the timeline had already diverged so he never got the full control of Alien X. Atomic X has shown no abilities that Alien X possess. Also, as one user pointed out 10k didn't know the threat that Chronosapoen Bomb possessed. Also, there is only one alien X in all timelines so the failsafe didn't work because probably all omnitrix tried Alien X but since there were way too many Bens it was impossible. That's what i think anyway.
 
No? The show has shown that the Ben 10K of Omniverse is the current future of Ben 10 in Omniverse, so he would absolutely have full control over Alien X. Atomic X would, by default, have Alien X's abilities because 50% of his DNA is Alien X.

And even if he didn't know how much of a threat the Chrono-time bomb was, he still transformed into essentially his second-strongest alien for no reason by this logic. If he considered it enough of a threat to transform into Atomic X, and Alien X was stronger, then why wouldn't he transform into Alien X?


Also, your last point is a headcanon. 'Because there were too many bens' has no source.
 
Ben getting control over Alien X is only temporary. He still has to ask for control whenever he transforms back into it.

Ben: Let me borrow the keys for Alien X for a minute to save the universe and you guys just go on having fun disagreeing on everything. Agreed?

Serena: When you put it that way, agreed.

Bellicus: I disagree that this will be fun, but if it means we can argue in peace for a bit, motion carried.
 
Atomic X is proven to be much weaker than Alien X as shown by him not countering Time Manipulation even though Alien X can "change the very nature of space and time." It is shown that combining DNA with Alien X, Serena and Bellicus are gone with the tradeoff of decreased powers. Atomic X is still stonger than Atomix, but not as strong as Alien X.

Also, it's already been discussined in the thread below that Ben 10k didn't know what the explosion was at the time.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3454873

Ben 10k knowing about the CTB in the first place doesn't his scaling. Either way, Atomic X < CTB.
 
But the CTB has been said to be much stronger than Alien X, so neither it or Atomic X would've been able to counter that.

Also, it's still evident that even if he didn't know what it was, he considered it a massive threat (he combined his two strongest aliens). If he thought it was just 'beeg explosion' he could've transformed into pretty much any other transformation.
 
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