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Alien X downgrade :/
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
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The Galactic Gladiator was towering over galaxies and AX made a black hole big enough to consume him.
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My time has come!
That follows 0 feats of a black hole. GG literally sits inside and nothing happens for a while, he damages the black hole temporarily (at least, interacts with it), light and a literal tentacle come out of that thing. It doesn’t follow our Black Hole rules in the slightest.
Green also admits to me that it’s supposed to be a Pseudo-Black Hole, but everyone refuses to place Pseudo on the profile
That follows 0 feats of a black hole. GG literally sits inside and nothing happens for a while, he damages the black hole temporarily (at least, interacts with it), light and a literal tentacle come out of that thing. It doesn’t follow our Black Hole rules in the slightest.
Green also admits to me that it’s supposed to be a Pseudo-Black Hole, but everyone refuses to place Pseudo on the profile
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As I said before, Alien X also recreated the previously existing Galaxies with their Supermassive black hole centers and regular black holes scattered about.
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Nothing about a Black Hole is shown in the show. No statements are shown either. Giving him so off of that would be giving every Universe Creator Black Hole creation. In fact, in every galaxy we do see, we don’t even see a Black Hole in the center.
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My problem is on the size claimed for the thing Alien X did there, GG wasn't "towering over galaxies", he was only some hundreds of time bigger than Alien X, then it cuts to show there are galaxies around, then it cuts to Alien X making clones of himself also some hundreds of time smaller than GG. It's just perspective, there's no proof of GG being bigger than a galaxy, we never see him get that big after the first time he made himself bigger and it's unlikely for Alien X's clones to also be much bigger in size.
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@Antvasima
What is the site's stance on Black Hole Creation when a character creates Galaxies with their black hole centers?
What is the site's stance on Black Hole Creation when a character creates Galaxies with their black hole centers?
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This entirely. The fact that we dont slap BHC onto every tier 3, 2 and higher page alone says we need to explicitly prove real black holes are present inside the verse.
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Black holes do exist is the Ben 10 verse.
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I think what he means is we need to prove they exist, and that they were created
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When Alien x was fighting GG only planets and stars were visible then after GG started to grow in size entire galaxies started to become visible as well so this clearly proves that GG become as big as galaxy
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- Alien Force E39 Con of Rath - Sangfroid is sucked into a black hole.
- Omniverse E04 So Long, and Thanks for All the Smoothies - The Universe is destroyed and Alien X recreates it.
- Omniverse E29 Rad - Introduces a saloon in Undertown called The Black Hole. Its outer sign shows a purple neon black hole. This saloon returns in Seasons 6, 7, and 8
- Omniverse E58 Universe vs. Tennyson - Ben: Alright. I admit it. It doesn't taste the same. I was too late to save the universe and everything in it from being destroyed, so I used Alien X to make an exact duplicate. But I just couldn't get the grape flavor right.
- Omniverse E73 Let's Do the Time War Again - Rook says "You would have to become a black hole."
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Oh my lord, I think you’re misinterpreting us.
We’re saying, you have to prove they can actually create Black Holes. We never see X create a Black Hole. The ‘Black Hole’ they do create doesn’t follow any Black Hole rules. Just because Black Holes existed and they created the universe doesn’t mean they created Black Holes- in fact, what stops characters who previously existed from referencing Black Holes, or referencing Black Holes that are currently being created post-recreation?
To claim that just because they have Universe Creation they have Black Hole creation would mean giving every Universe Creator Black Hole Creation. Or Water Manip for creating Water. Earth Manip for creating Earth. Etc, etc.
We’re saying, you have to prove they can actually create Black Holes. We never see X create a Black Hole. The ‘Black Hole’ they do create doesn’t follow any Black Hole rules. Just because Black Holes existed and they created the universe doesn’t mean they created Black Holes- in fact, what stops characters who previously existed from referencing Black Holes, or referencing Black Holes that are currently being created post-recreation?
To claim that just because they have Universe Creation they have Black Hole creation would mean giving every Universe Creator Black Hole Creation. Or Water Manip for creating Water. Earth Manip for creating Earth. Etc, etc.
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You have read the ability definitions, right?
Water Manipulation - The power to manipulate water. User can create, shape and manipulate water, inorganic compound with liquid, gas (steam, water vapour), and solid (ice) states, including changing them from one state to other.
Earth Manipulation - The power to manipulate elements derived from earth (rock, metal, etc.). User can create, shape and manipulate earth and "Earthen" elements including most solid objects, specifically all minerals and mineral compositions regardless of their state (mountain, boulder, sand or dust), dirt, soil, etc.
Water Manipulation - The power to manipulate water. User can create, shape and manipulate water, inorganic compound with liquid, gas (steam, water vapour), and solid (ice) states, including changing them from one state to other.
Earth Manipulation - The power to manipulate elements derived from earth (rock, metal, etc.). User can create, shape and manipulate earth and "Earthen" elements including most solid objects, specifically all minerals and mineral compositions regardless of their state (mountain, boulder, sand or dust), dirt, soil, etc.
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Also, Ben even says he made an exact duplicate except for a smoothie flavor during his trial.
Ben: Alright. I admit it. It doesn't taste the same. I was too late to save the universe and everything in it from being destroyed, so I used Alien X to make an exact duplicate. But I just couldn't get the grape flavor right.
Ben: Alright. I admit it. It doesn't taste the same. I was too late to save the universe and everything in it from being destroyed, so I used Alien X to make an exact duplicate. But I just couldn't get the grape flavor right.
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I think they mean that you need to prove that this is a specific ability utilized by them in combat (or otherwise) since if you go with this "they recreated the universe including Black Holes" then all Low 2-C creators have Elemental Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Light Manipulation. Black Hole Creation, Blood Manipulation etc.
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So... you proved my point? Guess we give almost every 2-C those abilities then, whoop Dee doo....
You get it? Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? To give them every single ability despite never showing it? Create Earth, boom, Water Manip? We don’t even see a Black Hole naturally on-screen- the only Black Holes shown in Ben 10 is the artificial one made by Gravattack. We only get references to Black Holes existing at one point. We have no proof that Alien X can create Black Holes- no statements, no showings.
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We do see a natural black hole on-screen.
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Ignoring the more minute "manipulations" that would come from making planets or people, we do see Alien X create the celestial bodies including stars and galaxies.
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And where do we see the Black Holes? As pointed out earlier, the scans you showed were different galaxies- Milky Way’s Blue in Ben 10 for some reason, according to ‘The end of an Era’, the Episode where Feedback absorbs a Big Bang. Even then, no Black Holes are shown on-screen during creation, and we never see X create a Black Hole, nor do we have a statement claiming X created black holes.
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- Alien Force E39 Con of Rath - Sangfroid is sucked into a natural black hole.
- Omniverse E58 Universe vs. Tennyson - Ben: Alright. I admit it. It doesn't taste the same. I was too late to save the universe and everything in it from being destroyed, so I used Alien X to make an exact duplicate. But I just couldn't get the grape flavor right.
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That literal statement states that He didn’t get everything right. Wasn’t his Hoodie also a different color, and/or the Smoothie Logo different? I don’t think he got a literal exact duplicate. Even then, we have no proof he actually did recreate it.
djw also claims Ben forgot Primus for some reason
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Isn't it more likely that he just restored the universe as a whole with reality warping as opposed to being involved in every little thing? Otherwise, this would even grant him gravity manipulation, electricity manipulation, magnetism manipulation via restoring the fundamental forces. Seriously, this opens the floodgates to a ton of unsupported abilities.
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Note that, against the ‘Exact Duplicate’ scenario, Rook also had no clue Alien X even happened despite seeing Ben transform. More evidence that he didn’t make exact duplicate, rather, just recreated it.
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Does this include the context of seeing them recreate the galaxies of the previous universe that contain natural black holes?
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We don’t actually watch X create Galaxies containing Black Holes. He doesn’t even create the Milky Way on-screen, just a few random galaxies apparently and then the rest of the universe, which includes the Milky Way.
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Bad analogy- that’s abstract stuff, this is physical stuff. Get what you’re saying, though.
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Should be changed to pseudo-black hole (as previously agreed IIRC) on the gif and on his page indeed. I'll CRT that back later, but for now it's pseudo.
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What’s even the use of ‘Pseudo-Black Hole’? We don’t even see it’s effects- after GG’s grabbed by the tentacle, he’s perfectly fine with AX brings him down. It doesn’t follow the laws of a Black Hole, period.
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@Antvasima
I believe it would be beneficial to confer with the other staff members to revise the Black Hole Creation page to note what contexts of creation are acceptable and not.
I believe it would be beneficial to confer with the other staff members to revise the Black Hole Creation page to note what contexts of creation are acceptable and not.
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Actually, while we’re on the topic, doesn’t X’s Regen come from GG surviving the Black Hole? If thats not a Black Hole, shouldn’t it be removed?
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Both actually, in the trial it was mentioned Alien X was involved with every little detail IIRC, but again this ain't the CRT for that.
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No that comes from getting torn to shreds by the pseudo-black hole and has been discussed to death. Actual black hole would give him the highest of high regens as previously applied on his page for a very brief 24 hours.
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