Alicization Upper Tier to Relativistic

[Leafbladie]

Cannot believe I have to say this again.

Read the previous threads.​

It's a great excerpt particularly because it even states the attack actually collided with the mirror and stayed in a clash for 0.1 seconds.

Kaantantr seems unaware I already have, seeing as I directly quote them from that thread.

 

[Kaantantr]

I am aware what you mentioned throughout your post. But I had to re-iterated it, because it does appear as if you just CTRL+F'ed into a specific thing just to cherry pick (would be a very common behavior tbh) and did not actually go through things for having proper context, the same way you lack the context on the basics of the world and thus fail to actually bring anything new to the table, as was the initial issue.

I don't particularly blame you for not being able to bring anything new, the topic was exhausted already. It's more about trying to push something continuously while still lacking the infrastructure on the topics.

Heck, you are still glossing over the "Don't look at what it's described as, look at what it does" aspect, which is the basis of many things in SAO due to its VR aspect that functions differently than real life.

Aside from the Light debacle for example, we had the exact same issue with "Interstellar Travel" where it literally isn't "Interstellar Travel" in the sense we describe, solely caused by the fact that planets in UW are described as "Companion Stars" so regular planetary travel is described as interstellar, despite in reality not being one.

The moment your Light does not function as "Light", it isn't "Light". Whether it is due to VR or other reasons does not matter. And even your claims trying to prove your own points ended up proving otherwise, with Reki mentioning "the beam" doesn't function the same as actual Light. Because actual light functions exactly like real life in Underworld.

I fail to comprehend when even your own citation mid-way through the conversation further proved the established understanding, you continue to claim otherwise... I know it is an issue with people who have agendas to push to force their own imagination and they require 3, 4, 5 different debunks despite the fact that they need to prove without doubt that their claim is solid. I do not understand how you can pursue this upon half a dozen debunked claims, some of which came directly thanks to you.

 

[Leafbladie]

anything new to the table, as was the initial issue.

I fail to see any single insurance where Kaantantr described my issue of a clash between the mirror and the light makes 0 sense, and isn't supported by the text in the slightest. There's a calculation that assumes Eugeo is correct in his 1/10th second claim, even though humans are notoriously prone to overestimating when measuring time in stressful situations. But no evidence an actual clash took place,, because there was none. It reflected, the mirror was destroyed because it was melted. It didn't move or stretch so the light would rebound. Or the light condensing down like a spring to bounce off the mirror.. Kaantantr just assumes a clash has to happen because that's the easiest way to debunk it being a lightened projectile. Of course, he won't confront the fact that he has 0 evidence for this clash, because that would mean admitting he was wrong in his assumption.

 

[Kaantantr]

There's a calculation that assumes Eugeo is correct in his 1/10th second claim, even though humans are notoriously prone to overestimating when measuring time in stressful situations.

You do not need to passive aggressively refer to me in third person when you are literally quoting me for a response. It just makes you sound funny.

Anyways, the point is not that Eugeo may be inaccurate with his measure of time, it's about the fact that there was a time of clash, rather than an insta-reflection, which proves it does not behave the same way light does, as actual light instantly reflects.

But no evidence an actual clash took place,, because there was none.

Except there is and it requires basic understanding of causality:

Sure enough, the mirror only held up for a tenth of a second.
The liquefied mixture of glass and metal sprayed outward, and
80 percent of the beam’s power proceeded toward Kirito.

The mirror holds up and the energy stuck at it only gets dispersed when it is destroyed, meaning the energy had concentrated there.

Because we know Light just instantly reflects. It does not hold up. If it was light, if it had not gone into a clash with the mirror, there was literally no reason for the entire beam to reflect back as is before the mirror gave away and there would be no reason to part of it to reflect and part of it to go through the moment it gave away.

We call this a case of "It crumbles wherever you hold it from" in Turkish for arguments... That literally crumble into dust however you look at it because they are flawed from all perspectives.

Of course, he won't confront the fact that he has 0 evidence for this clash, because that would mean admitting he was wrong in his assumption.

I believe the above bit explains how your claim of a reflection does not hold up. You can make the claim that there was no clash, but then you need to explain why the "light beam" waited until the destruction of the mirror to do its thing, rather than continuously reflect back until it melt down, which would have neutralized Fanatio way before since it would just... Reflect back.

The amount of lacking awareness is massive here. You do not even understand the consequences of your own claims. You make a claim and then hide behind another and another. There must come a point where you try explaining the implications of your claim or just give up if you can't. Not throw more random claims with implications you are not willing to consider because it does not suit your agenda.

 

[Leafbladie]

You do not need to passive aggressively refer to me in third person when you are literally quoting me for a response. It just makes you sound funny.

Kaantantr failing to recognize what I said earlier in this thread. I actually cannot argue with people who make false assumptions about me, without negative consequences. So I'm referring to Kaantantr in the third person, because that's what I'm doing, referring to your posts.

The mirror holds up and the energy stuck at it only gets dispersed when it is destroyed, meaning the energy had concentrated there.

Because we know Light just instantly reflects. It does not hold up. If it was light, if it had not gone into a clash with the mirror, there was literally no reason for the entire beam to reflect back as is before the mirror gave away and there would be no reason to part of it to reflect and part of it to go through the moment it gave away.

Now who's not reading? The explanation was rather simple. I have to wonder if Kaantantr things the entire laser changes velocity all at once?

I guess I have to draw out a simple explanation so he'll understand. Imagine I have a laser generator, a mirror, and a switch. The generator continually generates a laser parallel to the ground, and a mirror is set up in its pathway to reflect that laser so it goes up to the ceiling at a 90 degree angle. Now, let's say I flip the switch, and the mirror lowers until it is no longer in the path of the continuous laser. Well, the beam now proceeds past where the mirror was. Some percentage has been reflect to hit the ceiling, while some other percentage has proceeded past the mirror, simple as that.

Just replace switch lowering the mirror with Fanatio's mirror being so hot it literally melted the mirror with only 20% of its length that was reflected, letting the remaining 80% proceed unimpeded. It's not a bullet, it doesn't need to ricochet as one solid mass.

Hopefully this explanation was simple enough for Kaantantr to follow.

 

[Leafbladie]

The mirror holds up and the energy stuck at it only gets dispersed when it is destroyed, meaning the energy had concentrated there.

Also, I forgot to focus on this part. This has to be the silliest interpretation by Kaantantr. Because they're purposecully omitting the part where it says 20% of the beam was reflected back. So according to Kaantantr the beam decelerate to a velocity of 0 m/s, concentrated down to a point, then somehow uncompresses back into two separate beams, both with their original velocity?

 

[Kaantantr]

Multiple people tell you you are wrong anyways and you fail to address actual issues with your claims while not even understanding the implications of your claims. You cannot even provide a real life example properly, because the moment you go through the exact chronology of the experiment, it would not fit your headcanon interpretation.

This is as far as the thread goes tbh...

Honestly, this is too funny to actually argue. I feel like responding in the simplest terms would come with the implication of insulting your intelligence because it's such a basic matter. I'll do you a favor and not reply to you, so you don't have to reply directly to me in the guise of "talking to the community".

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'm just gonna have this thread closed, all of the points have been exhausted to hell and back and it's turning real aggressive real fast.

 

[Leafbladie]

I'm just gonna have this thread closed, all of the points have been exhausted to hell and back and it's turning real aggressive real fast.

Pretty sure that was Kaantantr's game. Just act indignant. Then he doesn't have to respond. He wins because everything stays as is, even if it's wrong.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Pretty sure that was Kaantantr's game. Just act indignant. Then he doesn't have to respond. He wins because everything stays as is, even if it's wrong.

It was agreed and exhausted in a 400+ post thread that went really in-depth on the context and everything. I didn't like it, hell I still don't, but I'm afraid that unless new feats come out, things are staying as is.

 

[Leafbladie]

It was agreed and exhausted in a 400+ post thread that went really in-depth on the context and everything. I didn't like it, hell I still don't, but I'm afraid that unless new feats come out, things are staying as is.

I didn't participate in that thread, I was busy working 60-80 hour work weeks. So really all I can do is just explain post mortem why a lot of Kaantantr's logic doesn't make sense. Like his insistence the mirror clashed with the beam. He refused to offer any coherent or realistic explanation of how this inteeaction would occur, and just gawked at a pretty simple explanation of how 20% would be reflected, and 80% wouldn't if the mirror just wasn't present anymore to reflect the remaining 80% of the beam.

 

[Leafbladie]

If I convince everyone except Kaantantr that it's a light speed attack, then shouldn't that be enough to change it? Like. who else doesn't think it's a laser? I'd like to talk, I promise I won't be as aggressive as I was with Kaantantar, and treat your points with respect, even if we disagree. My discussion with DMUA was a lot more civil than this.

 

[Kaantantr]

Alright, we are going back to middle school then. I really did not want to do this but as I said, having to explain such basic concepts inherently comes with the implication that your intelligence is being insulted because we need to cover middle school topics here. Basically, you are forcing my hand Mr. "If someone has assumptions about me I do not like, I'm just going to talk into the void with statements directed at the person I am totally not talking to, while also accusing them despite the fact that I was the one offended by an accusation". Yeah, I think that's how I would refer to you if I got down to this level of discussion.

Do you understand how light works? Your own example showcased how silly of a claim it is that 20% reflected at the same time the 80% went through. You gave the example of "moving a mirror". So let's get into some basics I am hoping you will be able to comprehend.

However, light isn't instantaneous in reality, it is just super fast. This makes the equation a simple "travel between point A and B" question. And thus, if there was no clash between the attack and the mirror, the 20% would have already reflected as is, before the mirror was no longer in the way to let the 80% through and thus would have already stopped Fanatio before her attack got a chance to properly melt through the mirror. Heck, going into the actual maths, at most, 40% would be able to head to Kirito, before the beginning of the 20% reached Fanatio due to lightspeed travel time from the tip of the Heaven Piercing Blade to the mirror and back to Fanatio. Like, the remaining 40% would not even be existing at all, because Fanatio would have already received a direct hit. And even in this perfect scenario, that 40% would have been a max value, as it would mean Fanatio would have received a direct hit (which would be when her attack would have stopped).

None of these happened. This is at its most basic as to how the process would have went. If the mirror reflected 20% of the actual light, that is how it would have played out mathematically.

Hence why mathematically, it cannot be light. Not that it needed to, because throughout this conversation, you ignored half a dozen clear showcases of how it was not light, including a direct statement from the author you yourself brought up highlighting it acts differently, which you promptly proceeded to ignore when you were suddenly pointed out that it did not suit your narrative.

It is time to stop Leaf. If you really want someone else to look at this, call DMUA in DMs, rather than rambling on your own in the thread as you continue to dig your own hole further.

 

[Leafbladie]

Do you understand how light works? Your own example showcased how silly of a claim it is that 20% reflected at the same time the 80% went through. You gave the example of "moving a mirror". So let's get into some basics I am hoping you will be able to comprehend.

However, light isn't instantaneous in reality, it is just super fast. This makes the equation a simple "travel between point A and B" question. And thus, if there was no clash between the attack and the mirror, the 20% would have already reflected as is, before the mirror was no longer in the way to let the 80% through and thus would have already stopped Fanatio before her attack got a chance to properly melt through the mirror. Heck, going into the actual maths, at most, 40% would be able to head to Kirito, before the beginning of the 20% reached Fanatio due to lightspeed travel time from the tip of the Heaven Piercing Blade to the mirror and back to Fanatio. Like, the remaining 40% would not even be existing at all, because Fanatio would have already received a direct hit. And even in this perfect scenario, that 40% would have been a max value, as it would mean Fanatio would have received a direct hit (which would be when her attack would have stopped).

I do not understand what Kaantantr is trying to say here in the slightest. Yes, I know light isn't instantaneous, not sure where I ever argued/implied that.

However, I can just emphatically say that it wouldn't have reached back to Fanatio yet. Because if 20% has been reflected, that means 80% of the beam is leftover. So imagine that Kirito and Fanatio are 20 meters apart, and Fanatio fires a 10 meter (you can honestly sub in whatever numbers you want, as long as the beam isn't greater than 5 times the distance between them, which seems unlikely). If 20% of the beam is reflected back, then that means a 2 meter length of beam has been reflected, and an 8 m length of beam remains. So the 2 meter long beam would be returning in Fanatio's direction, its spear end 2 meters away from the spear end of the 8 meter long beam. So there's still 6 meters of beam it hasn't passed over yet, it'd have to travel 18 meters to reach Fanatio, while the 80% beam just needs to go however far Kirito was behind the mirror.

I can give a more generalized equations with variables to show Kirito has to dodge first unless one assumes the length of the beam is 5 times greater the distance between Fanatio sword and the mirror.

 

[DaReaperMan]

What did I say about aggression? Both of you, Cut it out.

 

[Kaantantr]

I do not understand what Kaantantr is trying to say here in the slightest.

I am not surprised to be honest in the slightest based on the level of maturity and understanding you have shown in this thread.

Because if 20% has been reflected, that means 80% of the beam is leftover.

A "beam" is not a single dot of a photon. It is a continuous stream of photons. Your entire claim is based on the weird assumption that your beam is not a beam, but a single photon...

The mirror takes time to melt, so much so that Eugeo can observe it hold on and then disperse. So the beam must be clashing it for a much longer period than the creation of your hypothetical length numbers. Especially considering Light is in fact fast enough to circle the world 8 times over within a second. You do not seem to understand the precision of the circumstances for it to pass off as actual light. The more you speak, the more holes you create in your own argument. Because simply put, you have been failing to understand the implications of your own arguments since the beginning of this talk.

You keep creating more backlog that you need to prove, without proving a single one of them to its end. You are dodging more basic rebuttals than Kirito dodged attacks during his fight with Fanatio...

I repeat things over and over.​

Read previous threads properly.​

Read the books and understand the context you are trying to make claims based off of.​

Numerous people tried to tell you about their disagreement, maybe you should listen to them.​

If you still have issues because you just don't trust people because they do not agree with you, stop rambling and call someone you trust before you dig further.​

You have almost a dozen things you said so far that were either incorrect, or actually worked against you the moment you brought them up to begin with. Not a single one of your claims landed because you fail to address concerns or do not understand the topic you are talking about. I think you should just take up the last suggestion in the list.

 

[Vietthai96]

What did I say about aggression? Both of you, Cut it out.

at this point I think we should call staffs to come here to evaluate the thread and put a stop to this

 

[Leafbladie]

The mirror takes time to melt, so much so that Eugeo can observe it hold on and then disperse.

Again, all of Kaantantar's evidence for a clash relies on taking Eugeo's claim of 1/10th of a second completely literally. Eugeo is not an atomic clock, why should we take his claim that it was 1/10th of a second literally when humans have been consistently shown to overestinate the duration of dangerous events?

I said from the beginning that it's an overestimating, it has to be, because the number don't make any sense if it isn't. And the physics don't make sense if it clashed with mirror.

 

[Kaantantr]

And the physics don't make sense if it clashed with mirror.

Oh, it doesn't? Remember when I said just a reply ago:

You have almost a dozen things you said so far that were either incorrect, or actually worked against you the moment you brought them up to begin with.

Yes, this is one of those moments. It literally was your argument that the attack did not act physically accurate. You cited Reki's own words for this, only to completely ignore the existence of this, when you realized "It does not act the way Light does" was actually a proof against your claim. But I guess it was better for you to forget this bit, because you were actually caught lying about the fact that you had this "translated by a friend", which ended up being "ran through DeepL and changed the words without knowing the context of certain Kanji in the universe". Maybe I should actually report this as providing false evidence, since you purposefully twisted the words out of their context? Either way;

And this is just one of the things you just ignored throughout this conversation. I'll take the suggestion of the others at this point. I tried my best to explain the circumstances for a while. Then I had my fun with the ridiculousness of repeated arguments. I think it is indeed time to let someone else take over. So I will do what you wanted to do since half a day ago and call DMUA via a DM, and just for safe measure, I'll bring this thread to Antvasima's attention as well.

Hopefully, you won't be making any other "Talk to the hand" claims during the wait for their arrival, otherwise, I will be once again prompted to reply.

 

[Antvasima]

@Kaantantr

Can you explain both sides of the arguments here in easy to understand manners please? After that I can ask a few thread moderators for help with evaluating them.

 

[Kaantantr]

The main issue that transpired here is basically a constant back and forth of claim-rebuttal chain which has reached a point where multiple people recommended it was better left for moderation.

The main topic is the Combat Speed of certain characters, that were downgraded a couple months ago in a 400+ reply thread, as well as different aspects of it covered in another 200+ reply thread. (the former is more directly relevant)

The conversation so far has been:

OP: Arguments that were already disproven in earlier threads.

Users pointing to the fact that this was discussed before extensively and nothing was new

Followed by a constant back and forth of claims that are constantly refutes (despite there being no need to, since they were covered in previous threads), with most of the claims that were made just being forgotten by the OP, such as them "accidentally" citing the author Reki Kawahara stating the attack that is the basis of the argument not functioning as normal Light, without realizing this was actually a detriment to their claims. Not only was this direct statement ever acknowledged again by the OP who has continued to make strawman arguments, but also was actually a machine translation (unlike the OP's claims of it being a "translation by a friend") that they mistakenly changed the meanings of the existing Kanji in ways they personally wanted, without realizing those Kanji were referring to different things in the context of the series.

The main goal at this point is to stop the convo from continuing. Half a dozen open strawman claims currently litter the scene, and the OP refuses to trust the disagreements of the other 2 members who have arrived to share their disagreement with the claims, after it was pointed out that this convo was already had. The OP wanted DMUA's opinion on it specifically, but I am not aware whether they have actually contacted DMUA or not. Before I messaged you, I did, so on that front, it's a matter of waiting until DMUA is available.

On a separate note, I would like to bring it to your attention that some members who were an active part of the previous conversations actively instigated the matters, before anyone arrived to state this conversation was already had. The agendas of some of these members and their histories are well known, who were caught in yet another attempt to mislead people, knowingly or accidentally, until someone arrived to remind them that they were part of the previous convo, at which point, they completely vanished out of existence.

 

[Leafbladie]

You cited Reki's own words for this, only to completely ignore the existence of this, when you realized "It does not act the way Light does" was actually a proof against your claim.

I said the mirror was magical, and the interaction itself shouldn't necessarily reflect reality given Kawahara's words of the unique theory within Underworld. So whether or not a clash happened it shouldn't be used as a debunk, and I did this because it was called a magical mirror in the text. Kaantantr said that doesn't make it magical, so I decided to switch gears and then talk about why a clash couldn't occur. Just because I changed my mode of attack doesn't mean anything.

All Kaantatry do is cry "bad faith" like the boy who cried wolf. Again, I can have a reasonable discussion with anyone besides Kaantatr, since he seems dead set on derailing this thread so he can shut down conversation. Because my God, I've never met someone so willing to not break bread.

 

[Deleted member 15008]

I got confused halfway through this thread so I just pulled out for a while but after seeing both sides and also looking at previous threads I gotta disagree with the OP, especially since only 2 requirements to be considered light were met with one of them being questionable (I believe).

 

[Kaantantr]

I got confused halfway through this thread so I just pulled out for a while but after seeing both sides

Just to clarify in order to not lead to a misunderstanding as the way I worded it was a bit vague. At the end of my statement, I was of course referring to the people who were actually warned for purposefully attempting to mislead others before. Not everyone who initially agreed.

 

[Vietthai96]

All Kaantatry do is cry "bad faith" like the boy who cried wolf. Again, I can have a reasonable discussion with anyone besides Kaantatr, since he seems dead set on derailing this thread so he can shut down conversation. Because my God, I've never met someone so willing to not break bread.

Actually, you are the one who do this, and insulting him will not prove the legitimacy of your point, so stop this kind of comment

 

[Antvasima]

The main issue that transpired here is basically a constant back and forth of claim-rebuttal chain which has reached a point where multiple people recommended it was better left for moderation.

The main topic is the Combat Speed of certain characters, that were downgraded a couple months ago in a 400+ reply thread, as well as different aspects of it covered in another 200+ reply thread. (the former is more directly relevant)

The conversation so far has been:

OP: Arguments that were already disproven in earlier threads.

Users pointing to the fact that this was discussed before extensively and nothing was new

Followed by a constant back and forth of claims that are constantly refutes (despite there being no need to, since they were covered in previous threads), with most of the claims that were made just being forgotten by the OP, such as them "accidentally" citing the author Reki Kawahara stating the attack that is the basis of the argument not functioning as normal Light, without realizing this was actually a detriment to their claims. Not only was this direct statement ever acknowledged again by the OP who has continued to make strawman arguments, but also was actually a machine translation (unlike the OP's claims of it being a "translation by a friend") that they mistakenly changed the meanings of the existing Kanji in ways they personally wanted, without realizing those Kanji were referring to different things in the context of the series.

The main goal at this point is to stop the convo from continuing. Half a dozen open strawman claims currently litter the scene, and the OP refuses to trust the disagreements of the other 2 members who have arrived to share their disagreement with the claims, after it was pointed out that this convo was already had. The OP wanted DMUA's opinion on it specifically, but I am not aware whether they have actually contacted DMUA or not. Before I messaged you, I did, so on that front, it's a matter of waiting until DMUA is available.

On a separate note, I would like to bring it to your attention that some members who were an active part of the previous conversations actively instigated the matters, before anyone arrived to state this conversation was already had. The agendas of some of these members and their histories are well known, who were caught in yet another attempt to mislead people, knowingly or accidentally, until someone arrived to remind them that they were part of the previous convo, at which point, they completely vanished out of existence.

Okay. Should we make an addition to our Discussion Rules then? And in that case, would you be willing to write a compressed text with the relevant points based on the previous examples in that page?

 

[Antvasima]

Actually, you are the one who do this, and insulting him will not prove the legitimacy of your point, so stop this kind of comment

Agreed.

 

[Leafbladie]

Agreed.

I only began insulting him when he did the same. Why should I respect someone who won't give that respect in turn?

 

[Kaantantr]

I am not sure how much of a Discussion Rules addition this requires, I think it was more of a common sense issue. It's less of a "The OP did something they never should have done", but more of a "The OP was really in a lacking position when making an argument" which just caused it to drag on.

I looked around a bit to the rules specific to other series in that link, and SAO does not particularly have a "Don't change things in this series, based on things in this series". In fact, I believe that is already handled by the different keys already natively. And the others rules I saw was more along the lines of "We really don't want to argue about this at all", which sounds a bit too dismissive from the get go, I personally would not prefer recommending a rule like "You aren't allowed to discuss the nature of Underworld mechanics". Especially when it's one of the most fun things about the series to explore.

The problem is mainly an unavoidable difference of level in understanding the series tbh. Most people really prefer one-liner or at least very short citations, which I don't think works for SAO. In fact, it feels very counter-intuitive for a medium like Light Novels or Books, when compared to comic books or Manga (which also feels wrong a certain extent). Certain topics simply require a wider perspective on the world after all. And it becomes an issue when someone uses a single sentence in an attempt to overrule a mechanic that was gradually revealed/explained to the reader over the course of half a dozen books. And it is not easy to provide citations for a whole mechanic explained throughout half a dozen books, which I would have to do, if I hadn't done it in the previous relevant threads already. Still, a lot of what I said I did not bother citing here, since whether I cited those details or not would not have changed the outcome, when it relied on simpler things anyways (requirements for being Light).

This was a lot longer than I intended to reply with. All in all, I don't think there needs to be a rule along the lines of "This cannot be discussed, we had enough", but "Hey, we discussed it here extensively, unless you are bringing anything new to the table, this really has nowhere to go" should be a simple common sense ruling. And "But I think the way others did" is not exactly changing the arguments in any way.

 

[Vietthai96]

I only began insulting him when he did the same. Why should I respect someone who won't give that respect in turn?

i read all the comment, and while Kaantantr is a bit harsh and irritated in his comment, you on the other hand actually insulted him and provoked him first.

Agreed.

Anyway this should stop, both side will just back and forth and going in circle thus dragging the thread longer than it should be. I think we can call some staffs member who either knowledgable on SAO or at least expert on Light stuffs to evaluate. Me on the other still disagree with revision as Leaf too focus on some part that mention the word light and the feat about the beam which reflected of the mirror, but get contradicted in the later part which say it bounced (light doesn't bounced), while failed to provide more proof how the beam should be actual light, instead he write a wall of text based on his personal interpretation and assumption which irrelevant to the feat in question.

Also i don't think we need a discussion rule on this, this is really minor

 

[Leafbladie]

i read all the comment, and while Kaantantr is a bit harsh and irritated in his comment, you on the other hand actually insulted him and provoked him first.

No, I didn't insult him first

Again, please educate yourself on topics

This was what started it. Then it was saying that I'm a liar, and citing anime. Then refusing to retract that after I told him I actually cannot stomach talking who make false accusations about me. If he had just apologized right there, we could've had a normal conversation, but he's too big to do that I guess.

 

[Deleted member 15008]

Just to clarify in order to not lead to a misunderstanding as the way I worded it was a bit vague. At the end of my statement, I was of course referring to the people who were actually warned for purposefully attempting to mislead others before. Not everyone who initially agreed.

Don’t worry, I knew what you meant I just wanted to clarify why I wasn’t speaking since it felt like I was gonna be more involved in the conversation.

 

[Kaantantr]

To clarify:

a) You were lacking an immense amount of context, both in regards to the topic at large, as well as regarding what was already said on the topic in prior discussions. So I urged you to educate yourself.
b) You have claimed you have had a statement from Reki "translated by a friend". I immediately recognized it was a DeepL machine translation. From the way you admitted once found out, it was clear you never should have stated it was "translated by a friend". Especially not when your friend personally changed words into their liking, rather than the appropriate words for the series and its context. I stated you were either lying or were lied to based on what I found out. And what you admitted as a reply showed that it was you who lied.
c) You had cited Anime numerous times in this thread.

I do not particularly care for what you can stomach or not. I will be pointing out what I see whenever I see. The perception of you that led to that final assumption was your doing throughout the conversation, as you kept copying over Anime screenshots to go along with your claims.

 

[Antvasima]

We still seem to need some kind of easily understood explanations of the context regarding what is discussed here for our staff to be able to evaluate it.

 

[Kaantantr]

We still seem to need some kind of easily understood explanations of the context regarding what is discussed here for our staff to be able to evaluate it.

You mean the actual context about the series?

The claim was that Fanatio's Heaven Piercing Blade shoots an actual beam of Light, which would have meant it is Light Speed, bringing the combat speeds of a lot of characters up significantly.

However, as established in the previous thread, the attack is not an actual Light attack, as it does not fulfill the requirements to be classified as such. In fact, there are 2 clear instances in the series where events transpire the same way as it would in the case of a traditional sniper rifle, such as a character hundreds of meters away stumbling when the weapon was fired, and having enough time in his tumble to get out of the target, or how the attack enters a stalemate with a mirror for a split second, rather than immediately reflecting.

One of the added claims (by the OP) was the author Reki Kawahara's statements from his weekly "Episode Reaction" tweet threads where he states Fanatio's attack interacts with mirrors differently due to game mechanics involved, which unfortunately for the OP, meant the exact opposite of what he hoped, and was yet another clear statement that it simply is not Light. Because normal light interacts with mirrors the exact same way as it does in reality in Underworld.

The rest is mainly how Sacred Arts and Divine Weapons work in general. It all comes down to expending the durability of the weapon and turning it into a barrage of spatial resources (source of magic in Underworld), and a mishmash of highly specific details that are not as highly relevant as the previous 2 paragraphs.

 

[Leafbladie]

We still seem to need some kind of easily understood explanations of the context regarding what is discussed here for our staff to be able to evaluate it.

I actually decided to start again yesterday by going in a different direction. Changing this into a debunk on claims by Kaantantr that tried to disprove Fanatio's attacks as being light speed, one at a time. Because arguing 5 different points at a single time was getting nowhere.

 

[Leafbladie]

Since I didn't get to quite get going on that before this final thread, I'll guess for a summation of my stance, I'd say there's 0 mention of Fanatio's attack clashing with the mirror. But there is mention of 20% of it reflecting off, while 80% proceeded through. There's no mention of the mirror contracting to physically bounce the beam, or the beam scrunching up to spring backwards, so it being a bounce just seems to describe the 180 degree change in velocity, which is how it is often used colloquially. The first 20% of the beam melted the mirror as it was reflected, because the of intense heat, allowing the remaining 80% to proceed toward Kirito.

 

[Antvasima]

You mean the actual context about the series?

The claim was that Fanatio's Heaven Piercing Blade shoots an actual beam of Light, which would have meant it is Light Speed, bringing the combat speeds of a lot of characters up significantly.

However, as established in the previous thread, the attack is not an actual Light attack, as it does not fulfill the requirements to be classified as such. In fact, there are 2 clear instances in the series where events transpire the same way as it would in the case of a traditional sniper rifle, such as a character hundreds of meters away stumbling when the weapon was fired, and having enough time in his tumble to get out of the target, or how the attack enters a stalemate with a mirror for a split second, rather than immediately reflecting.

One of the added claims (by the OP) was the author Reki Kawahara's statements from his weekly "Episode Reaction" tweet threads where he states Fanatio's attack interacts with mirrors differently due to game mechanics involved, which unfortunately for the OP, meant the exact opposite of what he hoped, and was yet another clear statement that it simply is not Light. Because normal light interacts with mirrors the exact same way as it does in reality in Underworld.

The rest is mainly how Sacred Arts and Divine Weapons work in general. It all comes down to expending the durability of the weapon and turning it into a barrage of spatial resources (source of magic in Underworld), and a mishmash of highly specific details that are not as highly relevant as the previous 2 paragraphs.

Since I didn't get to quite get going on that before this final thread, I'll guess for a summation of my stance, I'd say there's 0 mention of Fanatio's attack clashing with the mirror. But there is mention of 20% of it reflecting off, while 80% proceeded through. There's no mention of the mirror contracting to physically bounce the beam, or the beam scrunching up to spring backwards, so it being a bounce just seems to describe the 180 degree change in velocity, which is how it is often used colloquially. The first 20% of the beam melted the mirror as it was reflected, because the of intense heat, allowing the remaining 80% to proceed toward Kirito.

@Moritzva @Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[Leafbladie]

Oh, last thing, here's a simple diagram to explain it visually, since words can't always fully paint a picture. I'm not good with angle geomtry (I was always more of a Calculus guy), but it gets the general idea across. The thing at the left side is Fanatio's Heaven-Piercing Blade

 

[KingTempest]

bro.

If it bounces off the mirror and is called light, it's Lightspeed. If not, it's not. Don't complicate it