Ainz Ooal Gown VS The Second Christ (Done)

[DeathNoodles]

Anyways, SBA says that they start 4 kilometres apart due to the range difference. With that starting distance, Ainz outranges TSC as he can attack at tens of kilometres away apparently. Whereas TSC seems to be limited to only hundreds of meters. Ainz has the range advantage here (and his teleportation having an even bigger range doesn't really help TSC here).

 

[Antoniofer]

Why 4 km? TSC also has teleportation although there's no much ranged feat for then (maybe creating a storm or such). I can change it to 100 m if there's no issue.

About Ainz time stop, how much does he spam it and how soon? Also, Ainz has no internal organs, right?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Grasp heart and TGoALiD are not death hax. Grasp Heart crushes the target's heart and TGoALiD nulls immunity to death hax.

Cry of the Banshee and True Death are death hax.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Why 4 km? TSC also has teleportation although there's no much ranged feat for then (maybe creating a storm or such). I can change it to 100 m if there's no issue.

About Ainz time stop, how much does he spam it and how soon? Also, Ainz has no internal organs, right?

If you want.

TSC's own teleportation would just get counteracted by Ainz's Delay Teleportation, which would delay TSC's teleportation, notify Ainz of where TSC teleports, and even giving him some control over where TSC teleports.

Well, Time Stop is a 10th tier spell in Overlord. However, Ainz's MP points exceeds the limit (which is 100 MP points) in Overlord, so I'm pretty sure he can spam it much more than 10 times (though that MP cost comes from the Web Novel, which isn't as canon as the Light Novel we're using, but it's still its own canon at least).

As for how long his time stop is, it's kind of hard to determine. The times that he did use it, he didn't really struggle at keeping the time stop going on longer or anything. However, based from the anime (which I've measured), he can easily use his time stop at around half a minute (30 seconds), and that's without using any modifiers to amp it up even more. As for how long the time stop takes effect, its instanteous (especially if Ainz decides to silently cast it), which is why I've stated that Ainz can cast spells (like his time stop) just from his own thought alone, and those spells are casted instantly.

He definitely has no internal organs because he's literally a skeleton. That's simply common sense.

 

[Jugger47]

Grasp heart and TGoALiD are not death hax. Grasp Heart crushes the target's heart and TGoALiD nulls immunity to death hax.
Cry of the Banshee and True Death are death hax.

Thats actually not true. Overlord Volume 1 Chapter 3.

This spell was one that crushed a foe's heart, and among the ten tiers of spells, it was an instant death spell of the Ninth Tier. Many of the necromantic spells which Momonga was adept with possessed instant death properties, and this was one of them.

Its death hax aswell as crushing the foes heart. So if you can survive instant death magic and having your heart being destroyed (or whatever constitues as the targets heart) you live.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

It's instant death because no one in the verse can survive having their heart obliterated. Against a character that can regen from that it shouldn't hold any death properties.

It is likely described instant death since it is a durability-ignoring organ attack that will kill anyone with a heart that can't regen/survive it.

 

[Jugger47]

It's instant death because no one in the verse can survive having their heart obliterated. Against a character that can regen from that it shouldn't hold any death properties.
It is likely described instant death since it is a durability-ignoring organ attack that will kill anyone with a heart that can't regen/survive it.

True Death is also desribed as instant death magic like Grasp Heart. Its the same type of magic, only stronger and without the added effect of preventing lower tier resurrection.

 

[Jugger47]

It's instant death because no one in the verse can survive having their heart obliterated. Against a character that can regen from that it shouldn't hold any death properties.
It is likely described instant death since it is a durability-ignoring organ attack that will kill anyone with a heart that can't regen/survive it.

I see what you are trying to say but Grasp Heart is literally stated to be instant death magic meaning it does induce instant death itself. I feel like it would defenitely state whether or not that was due to the targets heart being destroyed.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Just because they are described as something doesn't mean the properties are the same. Death and True Death are instant death because that's just what they are. Their functionality is instant death by using death magic itself.

Grasp Heart's functionality is instant death by destroying the heart, which will instantly kill normal beings. Grasp Heart also notably lacks the deathly aura that True Death has.

 

[Jugger47]

Just because they are described as something doesn't mean the properties are the same. Death and True Death are instant death because that's just what they are. Their functionality is instant death by using death magic itself.
Grasp Heart's functionality is instant death by destroying the heart, which will instantly kill normal beings. Grasp Heart also notably lacks the deathly aura that True Death has.

Overlord Volume 1 Chapter 3

Momonga's opening spell was one that he particularly favored, ÒÇîGrasp HeartÒÇì. This sort of magic was Momonga's specialty. Momonga had used his innate skills to increase the chances of instant death, and his necromancy-enhancing abilities improved the effectiveness of ÒÇîGrasp HeartÒÇì even further. However, it meant that he could not gauge the strength of that knight.

Spells that buff instant death magic actually effect grasp heart, meaning the same effects that can buff spells like [Death[ or [True Death] effect [Grasp Heart] too(hell the book straight up says , "Increase the chances of instant death"), so its a certainty, it induces instant death itself too.

 

[Jugger47]

In fact now that this is actually being discussed (this isn't the first time somebody has had to explain grasp heart is death hax) we really should clarify this on his profile.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

All that quote is saying is that his innate skills increase the likelihood of the victim dying immediately. It doesn't state that the spell has straight-up Death Manipulation effects on top of its main function of crushing a person's heart.

Which, again, would be enough to kill just about any non-regenerative being instantly. On its own. Hence it being categorized under "instant death".

 

[Jugger47]

All that quote is saying is that his innate skills increase the likelihood of the victim dying immediately. It doesn't state that the spell has straight-up Death Manipulation effects on top of its main function of crushing a person's heart.
Which, again, would be enough to kill just about any non-regenerative being instantly. On its own. Hence it being categorized under "instant death".

I don't agree at all. Frankly, I think its kind of strange to think that its just instant death because of the heart being crushed after reading that the same spells that effect spells like Death and True Death effect Grasp Heart. It even says it increases the chance of instant death.....Why would it even say that if targets only died due to their heart being destroyed, it makes zero sense. Not to mention the spells Death and True Death are categorized no differently, instant death.

There is literally no reason at all besides asethics to think thats all what Grasp Heart actually does(merely causing the target to die only because of its heart being crushed). And there has been no proof at all, no quotes, proving what some of you are saying, only proof that further disproves this.

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Anyone who understands context clues can tell that "increasing the chances of instant death" is referring to the person dyimg instantly from the effects of the spell.

Assalt already explained why Death and True Death are categorized the same, so that point is moot too.

 

[Jugger47]

@MrKingOfNegativity

"Anyone who understands context clues can tell that "increasing the chances of instant death" is referring to the person dyimg instantly from the effects of the spell."

Then explain, how exactly do you increase the chance of instant death when the spell already destroys the heart? You do know that in Overlord instant death effects are based on a chance right? And that the chance differs according to the targets resistance to magic? So lets say Ainz casts [Death] on a level 100 target, its very likely going to be a very low chance of working in Overlords verse(Also, most players, if not all, had some sort of resistance to instant death effects in the game due to gear), now he buffs it increasing the chance of it working on the target. Thats how instant death works in Overlord, thats how Grasp Heart, what I just quoted, works.

 

[Jugger47]

Assalt already explained why Death and True Death are categorized the same, so that point is moot too.

"Just because they are described as something doesn't mean the properties are the same. Death and True Death are instant death because that's just what they are."

"Grasp Heart also notably lacks the deathly aura that True Death has."

Also no he didn't, at all so your point about my point being moot is moot.

 

[Jugger47]

Funnily enough I'm not even intrested in the actual match at all. This is the first time I've ever heard of the The Second Christ. I only am here to correct certain things, this assumption of what grasp heart does is based on nothing but aesthics like

"deathly aura that True Death has."

And just strange logic like

"Death and True Death are instant death because that's just what they are"

Despite the fact that both spells are categorized as instant death, people just make the assumption thats its just because of the heart being crushed and completely either don't know or forget that spells that increase the chance of instant death effect [Grasp Heart] the same way they effect [Death]. Seriously, how are you going to increase the chance of an instant death spell that innately crushes the targets heart? Its infinelty more likely that the spell [Grasp Heart] already has an instant death effect and that it benefits from the buff. Rather than some outlandish answer like "it crushes the heart more powerfully with the buff".

Since I think I've proven my point quite well and no one has any real sort of proof ill sort of continue this on the Overlord Discussion thread if need be.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Regardless of who's calling what Death Manip, I feel like it's pretty clear Ainz can still take this rather easily with Timestop + True Death.

 

[Antoniofer]

Eh, I already lost the counts, who were the ones voting for Ainz?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I assume Jugger, Myself, and Deathnoodles

 

[Schnee_One]

Ainz FRA

 

[Antoniofer]

Bump

 

[Antoniofer]

Bump

 

[Moritzva]

Sasuga Ainz-Sans fra

 

[Antoniofer]

Bump

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Ainz FRA

 

[Antoniofer]

Bump

 

[Belyompusct]

Ainz FRA.

 

[Antoniofer]

All right, match is done, and time to add the win/loss.