Adventure Time: Primordial Monsters update

[Overlord_Darkness]

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So the maximum is just Type 1, right?

EDIT: but Type 2 refers to state that is not actual nothingness but between nothingness and existence...

 

[Georredannea15]

So the maximum is just Type 1, right?

EDIT: but Type 2 refers to state that is not actual nothingness but between nothingness and existence...

I mentioned this issue in another revision, but I will mention it again. Being in the limbo between existence and non-existence does not mean that you are lack of these dual states of existence. Moreover, existence before nothingness alone is not fundamentally sufficient for NEP.

Because to exist before nothingness ≠ be nothingness itself.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Moreover, existence before nothingness alone is not fundamentally sufficient for NEP.

Well, the Primordials are in a state other than 0 and 1. If it's not NEP, then what is it?

 

[Georredannea15]

Well, the Primordials are in a state other than 0 and 1. If it's not NEP, then what is it?

Type 1 and Type 3 "at best". Type 3, on the other hand, may be because it exists and between existence and non-existence at the same time.

Other than that, I have no idea about aspect types.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Other than that, I have no idea about aspect types.

Aspect Types, as TheGreatJedi13 said, is 1, 2 and 3. And Nature Type 3 is... Well, makes sence.

EDIT: I've never encountered this type before this moment.

 

[CodeCCLL]

This is actually not Resistence to Void Manip, rather Primordial Monsters have:
1) Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2, All Aspects: Primordial Monsters exists in a state different from existence and nonexistence being in the all-encompassing Void. The all-encompassing Void is the place that predates existence and nonexsitence);

Many characters like Finn and Marceline can interact with Lich and Hunson with ease.Primordial Beasts come before Void does not mean that they are nothing.There should be only Void Manipulation Resistance as specified in the profiles. At best it could be NEP Type 3. (in Physical World)

2) Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1: the all-encompassing Void is a place that predates time and space along with the rest of existence. However, Primordial Monsters are able to enter existence and their bodies are affected by the laws of physics);

Similar to NEP, I don't think BDE works here either. Primordial Beasts don't seem to share the same nature as Void.

Type 5: Primordial Monsters existed long before the concepts of life and death as well as existence itself).

Immortality Type 5 seems logical.

Probably, If Primordial Monsters had a true form other than their physical form. This thread could have gotten better.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

At best it could be NEP Type 3. (in Physical World)

Yea, Georred told that. Now I understand this point.

Probably, If Primordial Monsters had a true form other than their physical form.

There are few things that indicates that this is true, but this is complicated and we decided to ignore that.

 

[CodeCCLL]

TheGreatJedi13 said, is 1, 2 and 3. And Nature Type 3 is...

They must be at least NEP Aspect Type 2 because they existed before Cosmic Imagination (Multiverse).

(Also Hunson Abadeer doesn't have a soul anyway.)

But I guess, you can suggest Aspect Type 1,2,3.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Existing before void, nothingness or existence does not mean that you are a nothingness or that you lack of dual states of being(existence and non-existence.)

What the ****
If you exist before existence means that you are non-existent, otherwise you would be something like "the first being"

 

[ShionAH]

Adventure time is dream of finn.

Downgrade it to Tier 11 fr fr

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

What the ****
If you exist before existence means that you are non-existent, otherwise you would be something like "the first being"

But Primordial Monsters existed even before Nothingness that precedes the Existence (Cosmic Imagination)

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Yes, that's what I said
If something exists before existence, that something is nonexistent
It's basic logic

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

If something exists before existence, that something is nonexistent

And existing before nonexistence is??

 

[Georredannea15]

What the ****
If you exist before existence means that you are non-existent, otherwise you would be something like "the first being"

Hell no, then all primordial beings on the wiki should get NEP. There's no such logic.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

And existing before nonexistence is??

Nonexistence

Hell no, then all primordial beings on the wiki should get NEP. There's no such logic.

If they are stated to exist before time and before the ******* void, then yeah, NEP is fine

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Nonexistence

Which type? There are three of them

 

[Georredannea15]

Nonexistence

If they are stated to exist before time and before the ******* void, then yeah, NEP is fine

Never no And no character has ever received NEP that way.

 

[Deceived3596]

Following, will comment later on the NEP and BDE.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

See in op and second post.

Your evidence is the Lich via Sweet Pea saying, "before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing, and before there was nothing there were monsters"

That's not enough evidence to support your claim that the primordial have Type 2 NEP. They can simply just exist.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

That's not enough evidence to support your claim that the primordial have Type 2 NEP. They can simply just exist.

However, they don't. Hunson Abadeer existed in the Nothingness "before Actual Things came into existence" and Primordials should be superior to that existing in the state before Nothingness.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

BUMP

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

However, they don't. Hunson Abadeer existed in the Nothingness "before Actual Things came into existence" and Primordials should be superior to that existing in the state before Nothingness.

He also said he was eating a sandwhich and sitting on a mountain looking at the sea of something, so things obviously existed before.

also he said “came into existence into the land of Ooo” so he’s talking about a specific location not the entire cosmology.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

He also said he was eating a sandwhich and sitting on a mountain looking at the sea of something, so things obviously existed before.

also he said “came into existence into the land of Ooo” so he’s talking about a specific location not the entire cosmology.

..me eating a ham sandwich, perched atop Rock Candy Mountain, overlooking the Sea of Something, long before Plants, Animals and Actual Things came into existence in the Land of Ooo, surrounded by the all-encompassing Night of Nothingness

I think that this is a good evidence. We can see that Hunson talks about that his first memory is this. However, he also noted that all of that is surrounded by the nothingness that encompasses everything and his words may also refers to things that could emerge from nothingness just like him. As we know, nothingness was before anything so this should be clear

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

BUMP

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Following, will comment later on the NEP and BDE.

So what do you think about that?

 

[Ryuga21]

I dropped on this thread. But I'm curious about the purpose of It. I mean, how could something as massive as exist before the concept of space-time and non-existence not apply to these monsters' Tier? These feats must either place such entities in the verse's golden rank, or must be treated as outliers for the verse. These are feats found in Umineko level works, lol.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

I dropped on this thread. But I'm curious about the purpose of It. I mean, how could something as massive as exist before the concept of space-time and non-existence not apply to these monsters' Tier? These feats must either place such entities in the verse's golden rank, or must be treated as outliers for the verse. These are feats found in Umineko level works, lol.

Orgalorg and Coconteppi never shown anything for god-tiers of Adventure Time, but they are should be considered as independent entities that can exist without multiverse and nothingness

 

[KingTempest]

Orgalorg caught the meteor so that's that

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Orgalorg caught the meteor so that's that

I meant, that this is not so godly like the Multiverse that have 2-A. Mb Large Size 10 for Primordials true essences can change it, but we need to discuss it very carefully

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

As Lich says, Primordial Monsters existed before the nothingness that predates exsitence. This is actually not Resistence to Void Manip, rather Primordial Monsters have:
1) Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 2, All Aspects: Primordial Monsters exists in a state different from existence and nonexistence being in the all-encompassing Void. The all-encompassing Void is the place that predates existence and nonexsitence);
2) Beyond-Dimensional Existence (Type 1: the all-encompassing Void is a place that predates time and space along with the rest of existence. However, Primordial Monsters are able to enter existence and their bodies are affected by the laws of physics);
3) Immortality (Type 5: Primordial Monsters existed long before the concepts of life and death as well as existence itself).

A month later but,

The Lich: "Before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing, and before there was nothing... there were monsters."

The Lich is describing a sort of existence prior to the universe, the multiverse, time, anything at all and even prior to nothingness.

But with the creation of the multiverse it doesn't seem like they retained this state of existence and became somewhat bound and limited to the multiverse.

I do agree though with the state the monsters existing in lacking at least certain concepts, things like Life and Death which are embodied by their Gods did not exist prior to the multiverse so the primordials would completely lack such concepts, and they might actually retain this since Hunson Abadeer and the Lich seem completely "deathless". We don't actually know if GOLB existed at this time or not, you'd expect he would since the monsters seem plenty chaotic to me.

The Hunson Abadeer quote is weird since he says he just came into being in Ooo which wouldn't exist with the primordials. He does say he existed forever though but has no memory of it and his first memory is in Ooo.

Another detail that I would also like to highlight here is the size of the Primordial Monsters. In the canonical series-the continuation of Adventure Time, there is a series named "Wizard City".

This egg was created with the help of the powers of the Coconteppi - the second known for sure Primordial Monster that was revealed in the Adventure Time series.

Egg: I grow too large for this soufflé you call space-time! Aah! Coconteppi!

I'm not sure this is enough to go off.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

I do agree though with the state the monsters existing in lacking at least certain concepts, things like Life and Death which are embodied by their Gods did not exist prior to the multiverse so the primordials would completely lack such concepts, and they might actually retain this since Hunson Abadeer and the Lich seem completely "deathless". We don't actually know if GOLB existed at this time or not, you'd expect he would since the monsters seem plenty chaotic to me.

I mean that NEP Type 3 is seems like true considering that their bodies\whatever it is existed before nothingness itself. Type 3 also quite good describes how they become tide to the multiverse after it's creation and how they interact with it.

About GOLB: as we know, GOLB is the chaos itself and the supreme god in the Multiverse in terms of power. However, Primordials existed before even nothingness thus excluding the existence of the concept of chaos and, eventually, GOLB at that time.

The Hunson Abadeer quote is weird since he says he just came into being in Ooo which wouldn't exist with the primordials. He does say he existed forever though but has no memory of it and his first memory is in Ooo.

He said that he existed in nothingness, not before it. That should be easy.

Egg: I grow too large for this soufflé you call space-time! Aah! Coconteppi!

I'm not sure this is enough to go off.

Fair enough.

 

[Starsprite53]

Shouldn't they get acausality type 4 and immeasurable speed since they predate time?

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Shouldn't they get acausality type 4 and immeasurable speed since they predate time?

Acaus 4 already on their profiles. For speed... No imo. Their physical forms never shown such things in show and any comic books (see Orgalorg and Coconteppi)

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

I mean that NEP Type 3 is seems like true considering that their bodies\whatever it is existed before nothingness itself. Type 3 also quite good describes how they become tide to the multiverse after it's creation and how they interact with it.

I think it depends on how you interpret what the Lich means by "before there was nothing", if he means that a nothingness without concepts then it would make sense and you can say it does mean at least some sort of concept-less nothingness since time, death, life, aging, dimensions and so on did not exist.

In the Adventure Time comics there is this character that embodies the concept of time called Chronologius Rex, and he's canon. Well not canon to the original series but more like the overall multiverse probably. https://adventuretime.fandom.com/wiki/Chronologius_Rex_(All-Time)

There are other Gods who embody concepts. Life embodies life, Death embodies death, GOLB embodies chaos and so on.

So since these Gods didn't exist when there was "nothing" the monsters being prior to that nothing would also not be bound of those concepts such as time since Chronologius Rex didn't exist at all.

It does raise the question to, did the Primordials exist before the Cosmic Mind or are they part of the Cosmic Mind?

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Made a page for Coconteppi by the way feel free to edit it

Coconteppi

Coconteppi was a Primordial Monster who existed prior to space, time and even nothingness in the Sea of Primordial Monsters. Millions of years ago he was a powerful magician who roamed Earth until he eventually died by unknown means. After his death, a group of magicians called the 'Usurpers of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

It does raise the question to, did the Primordials exist before the Cosmic Mind or are they part of the Cosmic Mind?

Considering that Cosmic Mind is the multiverse itself that came into existence after Nothingness. so.. I think that Primordials were independent and thus they were NEP Type 1. But after creation of the Multiverse their nature become existent in some form thus making them NEP Type 3.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Neutral on NEP and agree with immortality. I don't think BDE is appropriate considering Orgalorg essentially got fodderized by gravity which shows that primordials might not seem so resistant/unaffected to space-time abilities and can't really "leave space-time at will".

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Considering that Cosmic Mind is the multiverse itself that came into existence after Nothingness. so.. I think that Primordials were independent and thus they were NEP Type 1. But after creation of the Multiverse their nature become existent in some form thus making them NEP Type 3.

Doesn't seem to be NEP3 since NEP3 requires aspects of themselves to exist while paradoxically not existing at the same time as a way to grant immunity to attacks or abilities. Here it just seems that existence was "imposed" against them. Maybe NEP could work while they were in the before nothingness but after not so much.

 

[Overlord_Darkness]

Doesn't seem to be NEP3 since NEP3 requires aspects of themselves to exist while paradoxically not existing at the same time as a way to grant immunity to attacks or abilities.

There some interesting thing like Orgalorg that almost consumed the likely-omnipresent being within purple catalyst comet (described itself as everything that good and evil at the same time) so idk. It's like some shit affects them and some not at all.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

There some interesting thing like Orgalorg that almost consumed the likely-omnipresent being within purple catalyst comet (described itself as everything that good and evil at the same time) so idk. It's like some shit affects them and some not at all.

That's moreso power absorption.