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God of War CRT: Chaos NEP and Yggdrasil Change

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Planck69

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Introduction

I bet you clicked onto this expecting 1-C didn't ya? Jokes aside, no tier changes today, just a change to how the Yggdrasil exists and an upgrade to Chaos's NEP, as well as one removal for her profile.

Ginnungagap/Chaos

Currently, the Ginnungagap is mentioned as being within the Yggdrasil, existing as the Spark of the World, from which Ymir himself emerged, even before time itself was created (As time only came into existence after Odin killed Ymir by stabbing him with his Spear and spilling his mystic life-blood). This is currently treated as the Yggdrasil having always existed for eternity. That however is not the case, as the tree can grow and has its own life cycle. And moreover;

Atreus, who is well aware of the Yggdrasil and its place in the cosmos, considers the meeting of Fire and Ice as the beginning of everything, which Surtr agrees with. Mimir himself describes the Ginnungagap as the great void with only primordial forces of Fire and Ice within it, a near exact mirror to Chaos, the formless void from whence existence sprang, including the Primordials, as well as the Primordial Fire, which is of the exact same nature as the primordial fire of the Norse lands.

So, overall, Chaos and the Ginnungagap are of the same nature, being the formless voids that precede everything else, including existence itself, which is the Yggdrasil in the case of the latter. The Spark of the World is the remnant of the meeting of Primordial Fire and Ice.

Now, the above is relevant, because the Ginnungagap doesn't just predate creation, but the void beyond it, that is the Realm Between Realms. It exists outside of any of the realms, being what is between them, with the realms being considered "all of creation". It is "unformed space", being referred to as a shimmering grey void, which also erases any beings that fall into it from existence.

The Ginnungagap, of the same nature as Chaos, is therefore a void predates both creation and the void beyond it. Therefore making both Idealistically Nonexistent.

TL;DR

Agree: 7 (DarkDragonMedeus, Theglassman12, Random-Helper323, Reiner04, Jepilstiltskin, Pepsimanlover, Re5yh)

Disagree: 2 (BestMGQScalerEver, Hecky222)

Neutral:
 
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Already the case on the profile. This time it's that Ginnungagap predates both creation and a nonexistent void (the Realm Between Realms). And Chaos is of the same nature.
Eh dont think that enough for NEP2. Instead of preceding some existent void thing in the cosmology and whatever particular thing exists in the cosmology you should be outside of the categories (like concept or something general) of nonexistence and existence.
 
Eh dont think that enough for NEP2. Instead of preceding some existent void thing in the cosmology and whatever particular thing exists in the cosmology you should be outside of the categories (like concept or something general) of nonexistence and existence.
Well yes, that's what Ginnungagap is. All of "existence" is the Nine Realms and all that's outside it is nonexistence, manifesting from Yggdrasil's branches. The Gap is the absence of either of these as it precedes them and the page itself just requires being neither existence nor nonexistence.

If that's not enough then I can put you on disagree with the Nonexistent Physiology change. And the change to Yggdrasil on the cosmology page?
 
Well yes, that's what Ginnungagap is. All of "existence" is the Nine Realms and all that's outside it is nonexistence, manifesting from Yggdrasil's branches. The Gap is the absence of either of these as it precedes them and the page itself just requires being neither existence nor nonexistence.

If that's not enough then I can put you on disagree with the Nonexistent Physiology change. And the change to Yggdrasil on the cosmology page?
Yea it doesn't quite do it for me since this is a more particular form of "all" rather than relating to categories themselves.
 
The space between that Mimir mentions in 2018 is a little confusing for me since I thought that is the Ginnungegap, not just some other realm that happens to be a void, but if it is just some other void then I might see Type 2 NEP if Ginnungegap is before both creation and the void.
 
The space between that Mimir mentions in 2018 is a little confusing for me since I thought that is the Ginnungegap, not just some other realm that happens to be a void, but if it is just some other void then I might see Type 2 NEP if Ginnungegap is before both creation and the void.
It is. The space between Mimir is talking about is the Realm between Realms, a void which is not the Ginnungagap. The latter is what predates both it and the Realms.
 
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Didn't DMC get rejected for NEP2 with +- same arguments?

What makes GoW case so different?
DMC had different arguments. They had a void that was superior to another form of NEP and proceeded creation.

In God of War, the Ginnungagap and thus Chaos is the lack of creation (existence) and the void beyond it (nonexistence) and hence therefore is neither existent or nonexistent. However if you still find it not enough, we can put you as disagree.
 
DMC had different arguments. They had a void that was superior to another form of NEP and proceeded creation.

In God of War, the Ginnungagap and thus Chaos is the lack of creation (existence) and the void beyond it (nonexistence) and hence therefore is neither existent or nonexistent. However if you still find it not enough, we can put you as disagree.
That void was outside of another form of NEP. Pretty similar to what you guys arguing.

+ Being beyond and superior +- same thing.

@BestMGQScalerEver already expressed my disagreements with it well.

It is not like my vote matters there since thread already has enough votes anyway
 
It really isn't. DMC does not even have a void that isn't Mundus.

However we'll note your vote.
Does it matter if that's NEP character or place for particular change? Nonexistence is still nonexistence.

NEP 2 is particular change itself.

I don't have problems if being outside of NEP 1 like this qualifies for particular change according to mods but I find iffy cuz devil may cry had pretty similar arguments
 
Does it matter if that's NEP character or place for particular change? Nonexistence is still nonexistence.
It does for direct interaction.

If a guy you fought and interacted with is nonexistent, and then you fought another who's also nonexistent but you couldn't interact, the only actual direct interaction between these two's nonexistent state is you being unable to interact with the latter, which doesn't allow us to infer much about the latter other than it being superior to the former.

However here, we have a void that is the lack of both existence and a nonexistent void, hence, we can infer that this void is both the lack of existence and nonexistence, rather than the former example above.

Anyway, I don't know much about DMC, so that's just me spewing what I know of the thread.
 
I think the key point here Ginnungagap predates yggdrassil which a cycle of existence and nonexistence. Its not simply just Ginnungagap predates another voids
 
Does it matter if that's NEP character or place for particular change? Nonexistence is still nonexistence.

NEP 2 is particular change itself.

I don't have problems if being outside of NEP 1 like this qualifies for particular change according to mods but I find iffy cuz devil may cry had pretty similar arguments
Devil May Cry not only isn't God of War (seriously this is bordering on whataboutism) but also doesn't actually have a "nonexistence" beyond Mundus. Chaos/Ginnungagap isn't just less "existent/uninteractible to another nonexistent being, they're the explicit lack and predation of reality and the void beyond it.

Pepsi's basically said what I was about to but if it's still unconvincing I can just leave ya at disagree.
 
Devil May Cry not only isn't God of War (seriously this is bordering on whataboutism) but also doesn't actually have a "nonexistence" beyond Mundus. Chaos/Ginnungagap isn't just less "existent/uninteractible to another nonexistent being, they're the explicit lack and predation of reality and the void beyond it.
You can tag @Tony_di_bugalu and hear what actually he argued about in that thread. It is similar predation of reality of existence and nonexistence thing
 
You can tag @Tony_di_bugalu and hear what actually he argued about in that thread. It is similar predation of reality of existence and nonexistence thing
I was around for that thread and as similar as it may seem, it's ultimately not the same setting or context. Void Mundus very much doesn't predate anything like this.

Even if he did, threads aren't decided on "it sounds similar to a verse that was accepted/rejected" else I'd just cite The Empty from Supernatural as having similar logic, for example.
 
It's also on the God of War Cosmology page (Nine Realms section).
 
You can tag @Tony_di_bugalu and hear what actually he argued about in that thread. It is similar predation of reality of existence and nonexistence thing
F1CrR07WYAAFD8G

Like I said in my other threads, I don't care if other verses get it or not, that's their monkey and their circus. I just want to wank restore DMC
 
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