Ace fire absorption and "Adept" haki user?

[Celestial_Judge]

I'm sorry I do not remeber Ace absorbing fire not a single time. Can someone please give scans of when this actually occured. It is quite odd that Ace is the only Logia Devil Fruit user that can absorb his respective element. Ace is not an "Adept" Haki user. Maybe regarding Conquerer's and Observation but Ace only used Arnament Haki while he was young and unconcious as a child.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

I'm curious as well since this isn't explained on the page.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

bump

 

[Epsilon_R]

They sure won't see the thread if there isn't any Topic

 

[Epsilon_R]

Also I'm pretty sure he has haki via Power scaling

 

[The_Calaca]

Ace's not the only. He exists. But I don't remember the details, so it's better if you wait for Rin, since I think she suggested the power.

As for his Haki, it seems that you have no fricking idea of Haki itself. Ace has Conqueror's Haki since childhood, first and foremost. His Armament Haki was displayed during his canon novel.

He lacks Observation Haki.

 

[Dr.Fix]

iirc Rin tried making the case that Ace absorbed fire during his fight with BB. it wasn't initialy accepted because the drawing was vague at best, but then it was brought up logias "absorb their own element". I presume that's why someone (Rin or other) put it on his profile. There was no other justification otherwise.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

So does that reasoning mean all Logias have absorption of their element?

 

[The_Calaca]

I guess? There's probably a few scenarios where they have used their powers to absorb their elements, but these two cases are the only one I'm aware of.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

I just rewatched the fight, exactly where did he absorb fire?

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Bump

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I'll make a comment here after I get off of work.

 

[Ryuga21]

I remember the thread where Fire Absorption was suggested but its hard to find

 

[Ryuga21]

Also Ace only used Kenbunshoku in a Anime only scene.

 

[AstralKing7]

I do as well^ it was from the novel as well if I remember correctly

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Buo Haki comes from Ace's Novel in his fight against.


Deuce removes Draw's fuel tank, and Ace punches the Vice Admiral in the face, but his punch does no damage. Draw grabs Ace by the neck and lifts him off the ground despite Ace's Logia power, using Busoshoku Haki which Ace was aware of. Draw prepares to kill Ace in the name of Justice, and Ace criticizes Draw's Justice causing him to burn children. Draw reveals that he sees burning innocents as a necessary cost of taking down pirates, and this revelation shocks Isuka, who breaks down crying.

Ace's flames cause Draw's fuel tank to explode, injuring both of them. The two continue fighting, and Deuce knows that Ace can win despite Draw's abilities. Ace overwhelms Draw in combat, and Draw reveals that Ace is now using Busoshoku Haki, which Ace does not put much thought into. The two of them punch each other in the face at the same time, which ultimately defeats Draw.


There, that's Ace showcasing Busoshoku Haki in his fight against Draw. Ace at a very young age and once he first gained his Devil Fruit managed to use a basic application of Haki and was fully aware of Haki. Shanks also notes that Ace's Haki is strong enough to melt the snow on the island they were staying at, furthermore if Ace didn't know how to use a basic application of Haki then he eould have never made it in the New World. Ace does and can use Haki but to what extent is unknown, I doubt it'll be on a crazy level but the bare minimum he'd still be able to use the basic application. It would be asinine to assume Ace cannot use Haki despite us having several showings and statements of him being able to use it and ignores the mechanics of the New World.


And Ace's fire absorption comes from here. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2788567?useskin=oasis

 

[DragonEmperor23]

The scans used to justify it should be put in the reasoning for the ability on his page so this question doesn't have to be asked in the future.

 

[Dr.Fix]

It was more because Cesar can absorb gas and maybe something in the anime rather than the art which Rin ended up denying as cause.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

In the first scan ace just has flames around him no absorption. In the second scan it just looks like said flames died out. Is there any other scans of him supposedly absorbing fire.

Ace did armament haki once and the level of skill at which he did so is unknown so it should not say "Adept" haki user.

 

[Dr.Fix]

^I don't pay attention to words like "adept". Unless I'm mistaken, they're just terms someone on here decided on to group which characters they think are comparable. Didn't we recenly decide to add more details to individual pages?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Flames don't just die out like that within a few seconds, the anime also furthers Ace absorbing the fire as seen in his fight against Blackbeard. Also Ace used his Busoshoku Haki against Draw for a prolonged amount of time and is fully aware of what it was, when he was at a young age. And the level can be assumed to be at a basic application or above that given his extensive experience in The New World. "Basic" or "experienced" could work but I prefer the former given his experience.


Edit: My apologies for the lack of scans, I'm a bit caught up with various other IRl Duties so I can't find the time to post them at the moment.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

Basic =/= experienced

I would definitely mention it isn't his go to move.

And using those scans are just using assumptions. We are assuming he absorbed the flames, we don't have actual proof. We needs scans.

And if he did theoretically absorbed the flames, he absorbed his own flames? Not flames from a burning Forrest or from an actual pyromancer? So it isn't proven if he can absorb foreign flames, just his own.

 

[Celestial_Judge]

bump

 

[Celestial_Judge]

bump

 

[Kidkinsey]

yeah i dont recall ace absorbing fire, and if he is basic at it i wouldnt say he is adept, i dont recall him using it at MF or vs BB

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Fire absorption comes from the anime which supports the idea that Ace absorbed the fire in the manga. As for his Haki, people fail to remember the way Oda treated Haki before the time skip was very different than it is now. When Ace was introduced and once Haki was introduced it didn't have the distinctive black-metal coloring it has now so using visuals to attempt to "debunk" Ace having Haki is pretty ludicrous. In the Novel Ace used Haki when he was a lot more inexperienced in comabt, the fight against BB and MF were afterwards.


Given all the evidence and information we've been given about Ace himself and how the New World works then yeah, one could only assume that Ace as of Marineford would have to be somewhat adept in Haki since he's managed to survive in the New World where one can only become strong if they have Haki. If anything adept would be a bit of a low ball, not to say that Ace has Goken or anything but he should certainly have an adept level of Busoshoku at the very least.

 

[Kidkinsey]

to my knowledge the black metal was just hardening, you can use bushohoku without your hand/foot etc turning black

and ill rewatch the fight, was it his own fire tho?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

The black metal effect is the way you know someone is using Haki post time skip. Before then Oda didn't use the famous black coloring, for example Whitebeard stabbing Kuzan with his Haki imbued spear. It wasn't black yes? The reason being is that Oda portrayed Haki much differently at the time.


Yes it was his own fire but that's a non factor considering he's a Logia, and Logia's are the natural occurring element.

 

[Kidkinsey]

yeah i took it has wb using AH but not hardening, i belive its described as an invisible armor and only visable when they apply hardening to buff their attacks and defense

and would ace be capable of absorbing somebody elses fire?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Busoshoku Haki in general is described as an invisible armor. Again, that black coloring? It's to let the reader know when someone is using Busoshoku Haki. Why would Whitebeard just stab Kuzan with normal Haki? There's no need for that, plus we've seen the amount of effort it takes to hit a Logia if they also have Haki as seen with Akainu vs the commanders. Another good point for Ace having it would be his short lived Clash against Akainu whenever they punched each others fist and connected, Jinbe is also good piece of evidence.


Also yes, but it also depends on the fire and it's mechanics. I.E he wouldn't be able to absorb fire if it's like Yamamoto's where it's just his Reitasu.

 

[Kidkinsey]

so what do you think hardening is? if post time skip haki is just black then luffy wouldnt say hardening imo, and because thats all that is needed to hit a logia although id assume WB can use hardening

as for ace its possibly he was able to hit akainu because akainu didnt liquidfy as he was throwing a punch, i do think ace has AH though since the novel said it

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

Busoshoku Haki in general is described as an invisible armor. Again, that black coloring? It's to let the reader know when someone is using Busoshoku Haki. Why would Whitebeard just stab Kuzan with normal Haki? There's no need for that, plus we've seen the amount of effort it takes to hit a Logia if they also have Haki as seen with Akainu vs the commanders. Another good point for Ace having it would be his short lived Clash against Akainu whenever they punched each others fist and connected, Jinbe is also good piece of evidence.

Also yes, but it also depends on the fire and it's mechanics. I.E he wouldn't be able to absorb fire if it's like Yamamoto's where it's just his Reitasu.

We are talking about Ace not Whitebeard. Whitebeard has more credibility on the subject than Ace does. Provide scans not assumptions.

And even if we did accept that he has no feat of absorbing foriegn fire. Like a burning building or tree or something.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

We're on the topic of Busoshoku Haki, why wouldn't I use Whitebeard whenever he's a prime example of Haki not being portrayed as jet black? Also I did provide scans and evidence above, I assume you haven't been up to date here?


That makes absolutely no sense and is completely asinine. You do realize what a Logia is correct? The natural element itself, of course Ace would be able to absorb fire from a burning tree, because it's still a fire.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

Because Whitebeard has more examples of him using it while Ace doesn't. We are talking about the Adept part.

That was a fire he created and tbh it looks like it just went away. Is there more scans of him absorbing fire.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I'm aware of the fact that we're talking about Ace being adept. Also don't try to assume I'm implying Ace has more displays of using Haki than Ace does, that was never the argument. The Whitebeard argument is to solidify the fact that Busoshoku Haki isn't Black, that's just the post time skip way to tell if someone is using it or not. Did you think I was comparing the two's haki usage? I thought I was being relatively clear.


A fire created from a man who can weaponize fire itself? Also the fire didn't just go away, Ace absorbs it into his body. Aside from that? No, but this wouldn't be the first time that a Logia as done so, Ceasar Clown also did the same but with poison.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

I'm aware of the fact that we're talking about Ace being adept. Also don't try to assume I'm implying Ace has more displays of using Haki than Ace does, that was never the argument. The Whitebeard argument is to solidify the fact that Busoshoku Haki isn't Black, that's just the post time skip way to tell if someone is using it or not. Did you think I was comparing the two's haki usage? I thought I was being relatively clear.

A fire created from a man who can weaponize fire itself? Also the fire didn't just go away, Ace absorbs it into his body. Aside from that? No, but this wouldn't be the first time that a Logia as done so, Ceasar Clown also did the same but with poison.

Uh im going to assume you meant Whitebeard

Again you are assuming he used it. You will have to show scans of him either saying it or showing it. I never said Haki was black where did you see me say that? It is known for other characters having Haki they've said so in the series manga or anime. They have not does this for ace, only in the Novel. Could you provide scans if im wrong?

Prove he absorbed it. He didn't say so. The flames just went away. Ceasars abilities are more noticiable and shown. Ace has never shon to absorb his flames. From that scan it can be interpreted in different ways so more scans should be shown.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Yes I did, it's currently 1:28 AM here so please do excuse me if you see any grammar errors.


Again, it's not an assumption whenever it's outright stated in Ace's own novel that he knows how to use it. As for the scans? I quite literally posted them above, simply scroll up and you'll see them. Also I never said you made the claim, you seem to be very confused here. Me and kinsey were going over about the mechanics regarding Busoshoku Haki, I.E it being portrayed as a black metal effect to tell the reader someone is using Busoshoku Haki post time skip. Me and the user were discussing it and I brought up Whitebeard using it against Kuzan and it wasn't black. Afterwards you came into the thread saying "We are talking about Whitebeard not Ace." Also Zoro isn't stated to have Kenbun Haki but we know he does via WoG, databooks, etc. Here we have Ace using Busoshoku Haki at a very young age and have an established setting being the New World where you won't get far without Haki.


I don't need to prove he absorbed it, I've already done so. But since you keep on insisting on me to do so again then I'll do it once more. https://youtu.be/sm-uowyd6h8 starts at 3:15 seconds, Ace walks towards the burning house, the fire is instantly brought down towards him and we can see that he starts to absorb through his feet. Afterwards the fire disappears, doesn't take much to put two and two together at that point. Also no, Ceasar's abilities are not more noticeable and shown than Ace's feat, Ceasar does it once as well.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

It is in the Novel, yes, But you are trying to say he did it in the Manga/Anime when it wwas never stated nor shown there. I'm not saying the Novel is wrong. Whitebeard has already been stated to use it in the series.

It is headcanon to assume he is using it in the show against various enemies when it isn't stated so.

I am unable to watch youtube videos atm, however we use manga over anime here due to the manga being more reliable. We would need more scans. The scans provided did not show any absorption. You would need more scans.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I never said for certain that Ace used it in the manga or anime. Again, read my argument over it's rather obvious to me that your having issues comprehending on what's been discussed at the moment. What I said was it's difficult to tell if Ace was using Haki or not in his fights due to the way Haki was portrayed at the time. And given the vast amount of context regarding Haki and how it works in the New World then yeah, all probability is pointing towards Ace being adept in his Busoshoku Haki usage. I think your failing to understand the supportive arguments here. Also again for the third time, the previous argument involving Whitebeard is too showcase that back pre time skip One Piece Haki was portrayed differently than what it is now. Also if we wanna go down that road I could easily do the same. Ace has been confirmed to use Busoshoku Haki in his Novel. That's also more recent than what we saw of Ace in the Manga.


We use the manga over the anime yes, but the knowledgeable members of One Piece all agreed on using the anime if it can support something vague from the manga. And in this case it does absolutely that. All you've done so far is repeat "Post the scans." Despite me already having have done so. Repeating the same argument doesn't make it anymore sound, it's simply Ad nauseam at this point. Also, for the record this has been accepted already by some of the most knowledgeable One Piece fans here and the same arguments are used from the last thread. Given that it's been essentially answered I'll have a staff member evaluate and close this, one who's knowledgeable about One Piece once I wake up

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

I'm not at all lol.

And given the vast amount of context regarding Haki and how it works in the New World then yeah, all probability is pointing towards Ace being adept in his Busoshoku Haki usage.

Both Sabo and Luffy have shown Haki in the series and or the show has told us. Definitive Proof him mastering Haki would be them saying so.

Again can you provide more evidence.

The time spent replying could be the time spent looking for evidence.

Why are you bringing up the novel when I literally said I don't disagree with it. My arguement is the adept part.

Also if I really wanted to be technical the advanced form of Arnament Haki "Bushoku" has only been shown with a Handful of characters in One Piece, which would definitely confirm that he is not "Adept" as his page says.

I literally told you those scans can be misinterpreted by different people as shown above so I asked for more. You say it as if im asking for alot.