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Absolute Zero Standards Revision

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Idk why Absolute Zero was considered a Dura negation in the first place. It's really just an extreme case of temperature manipulation, and it doesn't always involve ice, ofc.
 
I mean, I don't know anyone that has AZ for making ice that cold instead of making the environment and stuff in it AZ, but sure, this makes sense.
 
Freezing a character to AZ temperatures would still freeze all the atoms and molecules in their body, which would inherently negate durability. Also, freezing oxygen till it becomes solid for example would certainly negate durability via causing suffocation.
 
I agree with Kep on the point he is making. By hitting someone with an AZ attack, you don't by default ignore their durability, unlike if you are able to lower their temperature to AZ in an instant.

But what about a continuous attack that gradually decreases the body temperature to AZ? Since the attack is continuous in this case, it won't cease to be AZ.
 
So, I may be mistaken, but the current Asolute Zero page does mention that, theoretically, something frozen to Absolute Zero temperatures would have their atoms lose cohesiveness due to the loss of energy, therefore said object would collapse under its own weight.

So, if a character freezes a target and said target just falls appart due to the freezing would that count as Absolute Zero or Durability Negation? It may sound too simplistic, but the freezing would have caused a loss of temperature to make the target fragile enough to break that easily.

I guess it would also depend on what the target was.
 
In a "realistic" scenario Absolute Zero would essentially function as existence erasure, since mass is energy. The object would just disappear entirely.
 
Hmm... My question is the other way around, actually. More than a depiction of what would happen with Absolute Zero temperatures, I simplye meant, if the scenario I described happened could it count as AZ or is not enough?
 
Neutral, but if this is accepted, we should reword the Absolute Zero page and Absolute Zero Feats in Fictio in this case.

However, I don't remember Absolute Zero to necessarily be heat related as I check the wikipedia page and it mention this:

"It is commonly thought of as the lowest temperature possible, but it is not the lowest enthalpy state possible, because all real substances begin to depart from the ideal gas when cooled as they approach the change of state to liquid, and then to solid; and the sum of the enthalpy of vaporization (gas to liquid) and enthalpy of fusion (liquid to solid) exceeds the ideal gas's change in enthalpy to absolute zero. In the quantum-mechanical description, matter (solid) at absolute zero is in its ground state, the point of lowest internal energy.

The laws of thermodynamics indicate that absolute zero cannot be reached using only thermodynamic means, because the temperature of the substance being cooled approaches the temperature of the cooling agent asymptotically,[4] and a system at absolute zero still possesses quantum mechanical zero-point energy, the energy of its ground state at absolute zero. The kinetic energy of the ground state cannot be removed.

Scientists and technologists routinely achieve temperatures close to absolute zero, where matter exhibits quantum effects such as superconductivity and superfluidity."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_zero
 
The thread simply says poking someone with an absolute zero stick is not assumed to be durability negation. It's a different story if a magic spell freezes the body to AZ temperatures; that's still durability negation.
 
@Dark

Oh it is with objects? I thought we talking about all attacks that claims to be AZ or something as the OP did seemingly stated that unless I misread that part wrong.
 
Yes, AZ objects don't negate durability, but freezing someone till they reach AZ still negates durability. As for approaching AZ or attacks that are close to AZ, that depends on context; the cold itself may not negate durability, but certain after effects such as making air become solid still would. Freezing atoms and molecules also negates durability for sure.
 
So has this revision has been accepted?
 
@Ant

It does seem like it is. However, it is best to reword the pages relating to Absolute Zero to ensure these standards has been changed to reflect this proposal. Just that I want clarify Absolute Zero isn't heat itself just it is considered to be "cold" I think.
 
Well, I suppose that it is best if Kepekley23 handles it in that case.
 
Just to clarify, we now assume AZ is capped by AP right?

So this means a tier 8 character isn't going to overcome the durability of a tier 7 one, But how would AZ work between characters with a similar AP?

I would assume that as long as your durability isn't substantially higher than the one attacking with AZ you're still going to be frozen to the atomic level and for all intents and purposes have your durability negated by such attacks.
 
It's not like a higher tiered character can ignore the durability of the lower tiered character by hitting him with an AZ attack, or vice-versa. The OP says that anything that has heat, would actually absorb its heat, thus the attack won't be AZ anymore.

While it would undoubtedly kill a normal human, that would be because our body heat isn't sufficient to heat it up to levels we can withstand. But anyone with sufficiently powerful skin would be able to handle this effect, for example, a tier 8 character.
 
AKM sama said:
It's not like a higher tiered character can ignore the durability of the lower tiered character by hitting him with an AZ attack, or vice-versa. The OP says that anything that has heat, would actually absorb its heat, thus the attack won't be AZ anymore.
While it would undoubtedly kill a normal human, that would be because our body heat isn't sufficient to heat it up to levels we can withstand. But anyone with sufficiently powerful skin would be able to handle this effect, for example, a tier 8 character.
Click to expand...
Huh... Wait time out... Was it confirmed that heat itself will be able to affect AZ? Out of curiosity, if heat has been essentially been removed due to the temperature being reduced to nearly AZ or on the level of Absolute Zero, then is it possible to reheat it again? I assume it can not be normal heat that is for sure.
 
Yes, heat is a defense against AZ, as pointed out above by DontTalkDT and Kep.
 
AKM sama said:
Yes, heat is a defense against AZ, as pointed out above by DontTalkDT and Kep.
Click to expand...
How exactly will it be defense if all the surrounding area is affected by a AZ attack as in getting the temperature reduced to Absolute Zero in this situation though? I never read articles that mention this particular part for some reason.
 
Your question has already been answered by DontTalkDT above.
 
AKM sama said:
Your question has already been answered by DontTalkDT above.
Click to expand...
Hmmm maybe, but at the same time it does contradict the scenarios as this implies the body is capable of producing the heat necessary to counteract the effects of AZ, not fully negate it though. There is no other scenarios that would imply this will alway be the case. Logically speaking, if you attempt to heat up something that has already reached AZ, then how does the molecules or atoms respond to this? Do they accept it or the heat just get reduced to Absolute Zero?

Keep in mind, we talking about a what-if scenario with our own theories and other things I think.
 
Absolute Zero isn't some black hole of heat. If the surrounding area is AZ but the person in said area isn't, then whenever anything that is AZ touches them, there's going to be heat transfer between them and then they might both be very cold, but neither are going to be AZ
 
Very little to none heat transfer to the point the temperature has changed a little to none though. Like it does sound we going by guessworks and other things, but I digress anyway.

Will remain neutral toward this proposal as I not fully against it nor support it as I can not deny a possibility of it happening.
 
Very little heat transfer, but not none. There will be some. That's just physics. And once something has any heat at all in it, it's not AZ anymore.

Granted if you're not able to survive at -255 degrees celsius then I suspect having something AZ touch your arm and having your body temperature split between -273 and 37 degrees isn't going to do wonders for you.

My maths was off there but the point was made.
 
I didn't make myself clear enough, I meant attacks that involve the direct manipulation of heat to freeze people to AZ as opposed to attacks that are just the equivalent of throwing a block of very cold ice against your opponent.

from what I gather the first is still assumed to ignore durability while the latter is not, is that correct?
 
@Aguila

It is more like a argument rather than a assumption when I look at the OP more closely regarding AZ attacks and other things.
 
AguilaR101 said:
I didn't make myself clear enough, I meant attacks that involve the direct manipulation of heat to freeze people to AZ as opposed to attacks that are just the equivalent of throwing a block of very cold ice against your opponent.
from what I gather the first is still assumed to ignore durability while the latter is not, is that correct?
Click to expand...
Correct.

If you use heat hax to make your opponent 0K, that ignores dura. If you just hit them with an icicle that's AZ, that's not going to ignore dura (completely anyway, depending on their cold resist)
 
@Monarch

It is possible to theorize even in physics. Physics after-all is a branch of science if my memories are correct on that regard.
 
Your memory serves correct..about physics being a branch of science...
 
Bump.

The stuff seems to have been accepted, now the last thing left to do is to update the page accordingly.
 
What was decided here?
 
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