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About Pokemon Types
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
- Start date
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- pokémon
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But wouldnt that be unfair to the Pokemon?
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I think fairy should be light based attacks (or maybe the very specific case of light based magic) since most Sp. Attack fairy type moves appear to fall under this category.
Dragon could be when a move is specifically considered to be the "dragon" archetype since some verses (I think Monster Hunter and Digimon) also do this. It could also include non elemental and physical attacks that come from "non pokemon" dragons.
Dragon could be when a move is specifically considered to be the "dragon" archetype since some verses (I think Monster Hunter and Digimon) also do this. It could also include non elemental and physical attacks that come from "non pokemon" dragons.
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If we are giving Fairy a type of manipulation (Light Manipulation or Other) or Magic on Vs Battles, then we should give Arceus this type of ability considering he wields this type of plate.
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moves involving light manipulation come in a varity of types. flash is normal type for example.Edwellken said:
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I'm glad this was brought up, as this is important. I feel like this would more affect the Pokémon than the opponent they are fighting against. For example, I had a big conversation with SD whether ki attacks would fall under fighting type, and it has been agreed in Arceus battles that time and space would be Dragon types due to Palkia and Dialga. However, what was an unspoken rule was whether an attack would be super effective on the opponent unless that's how their verse works. For example, Pikachu wouldn't exactly beat Juvia because she's a water being, and because she is weak to ice in her verse iirc, ice type moves would be super effective on her even though ice doesn't do much to water in Pokémon. I think it's safe to give types to some sort of moves, like mind to psychic, the classic elements, soul is ghost, weapons are steel, etc. But it can't arbitrarily be decided if a random kind of attack, like transmutation, would be dragon (pulled a random type out of nowhere).
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Well some Fairy attacks seem magic based which make a lot of sense. And they could exist in verses like The Fairy Odd Parents, Winx Club, Fairy Tail, etc.
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We might need to translate the original japanese text since I think stuff like dark type is just evil type in Japan.
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My opinion is that, type advantages and disadvantages can taken as certain amounts of resistance and weaknesses for the pokemon themselves (like cal said). How much that is should by no means be classified through game mechanics, but through the particular showings of the specific pokemon, outside of game-mechanics involving battles.
For example we shouldn't take grounds immunity to electric attacks too high. It should be taken as some amount of resistance instead and how high that is should be decided by the strongest electric attack a specific ground type pokemon has shown to take. (Otherwise we would assume that every weak ground type pokemon is immune to Zapdos lightning attacks)
Personally I would generally refrain from giving pokemons resistances to hax (soul attacks, space-time manipulation, mind attacks etc.) just by type though.
When doing a battle it should also be considered, that different mechanisms behind abilities mean that not every psychic ability is psychic type, for example, but only if it is sufficiently similar to pokemons psychic types.
For example we shouldn't take grounds immunity to electric attacks too high. It should be taken as some amount of resistance instead and how high that is should be decided by the strongest electric attack a specific ground type pokemon has shown to take. (Otherwise we would assume that every weak ground type pokemon is immune to Zapdos lightning attacks)
Personally I would generally refrain from giving pokemons resistances to hax (soul attacks, space-time manipulation, mind attacks etc.) just by type though.
When doing a battle it should also be considered, that different mechanisms behind abilities mean that not every psychic ability is psychic type, for example, but only if it is sufficiently similar to pokemons psychic types.
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I agree with DT on well...everything. Only exception would be that last hax part with arceus and Arceus only.
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Well it could be that, for the low tier ground mons vs Zapdos, its the force and pure power of Zapdos's attacks that would fodderize them, not the actual lightning itself.
Though I can be wrong on this
Though I can be wrong on this
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- Thread starter
- #56
I actually agree with DT here. Aside from Arceus of course.
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It's likely better to revise the general trends in each typing instead of the special abilities relative to only a few pokemon, as it is much easier to compare across versus matchups.
For example, it's true Dragon type moves include that of space-time, but considering this is only applicable to very few moves it would likely be incorrect to categorize all such abilities as dragon type moves.
After all, Celebi, Hoopa and even Shaymin all have similar abilities yet the typing of their attacks are left unaltered.
Further, Giratina has Shadow Force, in which it either teleports, breaks/phase through dimensional barriers, or both, yet this is a ghost type move.
The weaker variant Phantom Force also involves teleportation yet is a dark type attack.
These special abilities are more reflective of the nature of the normal users, than the actual moves themselves. They're the exceptions, and should be treated as such.
I agree with Fasial in that Dragon type attacks should be omitted, as the typing usually involves energy manipulation of a special variety not easily equalized in verses. The same could be said for Fairy as they have no general trend of abilities (though I usually considered them to be light since they're the antithesis of dark types and similar abilities seem to support this I admit it's probably easier to forgo this entirely).
If we use my suggestion of the general trends, then typing considered to be difficult to scale such as steel types which usually, despite few exceptions, focuses on metal manipulation and normal types which usual deals with the physical, much confusion is greatly decreased.
Dark types are tricky. Many animations do depict them of using dark energy (dark void, dark pulse, bite in some pokemon side games) but it's also simply a category where abilities that may seem malicious or dishonorable are held (knockoff, punishment, torment) with no other particular features (in the anime and main games bite is simply pokemon literally biting each other).
As such, relating to moves with a sort of dark energy is likely preferable to that of the other "normal" moves mixed in.
Finally, I don't think individuals affected by such attacks should be regarded as being "super effective".
Pokemon are effected by such due to their unique physiology, something most characters from outside the verse lacks hence it would be faulty to hold them by the same standards unless it's a weakness noted on their profiles.
@DT I agree. In the anime and manga, at least, attack potency is considered to be a higher priority than typing. However, it should still be considered immunity as Pokemon in the same level of power usually aren't affected.
For example, it's true Dragon type moves include that of space-time, but considering this is only applicable to very few moves it would likely be incorrect to categorize all such abilities as dragon type moves.
After all, Celebi, Hoopa and even Shaymin all have similar abilities yet the typing of their attacks are left unaltered.
Further, Giratina has Shadow Force, in which it either teleports, breaks/phase through dimensional barriers, or both, yet this is a ghost type move.
The weaker variant Phantom Force also involves teleportation yet is a dark type attack.
These special abilities are more reflective of the nature of the normal users, than the actual moves themselves. They're the exceptions, and should be treated as such.
I agree with Fasial in that Dragon type attacks should be omitted, as the typing usually involves energy manipulation of a special variety not easily equalized in verses. The same could be said for Fairy as they have no general trend of abilities (though I usually considered them to be light since they're the antithesis of dark types and similar abilities seem to support this I admit it's probably easier to forgo this entirely).
If we use my suggestion of the general trends, then typing considered to be difficult to scale such as steel types which usually, despite few exceptions, focuses on metal manipulation and normal types which usual deals with the physical, much confusion is greatly decreased.
Dark types are tricky. Many animations do depict them of using dark energy (dark void, dark pulse, bite in some pokemon side games) but it's also simply a category where abilities that may seem malicious or dishonorable are held (knockoff, punishment, torment) with no other particular features (in the anime and main games bite is simply pokemon literally biting each other).
As such, relating to moves with a sort of dark energy is likely preferable to that of the other "normal" moves mixed in.
Finally, I don't think individuals affected by such attacks should be regarded as being "super effective".
Pokemon are effected by such due to their unique physiology, something most characters from outside the verse lacks hence it would be faulty to hold them by the same standards unless it's a weakness noted on their profiles.
@DT I agree. In the anime and manga, at least, attack potency is considered to be a higher priority than typing. However, it should still be considered immunity as Pokemon in the same level of power usually aren't affected.
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I don't know if this was already mentioned, but I've heard that pure water doesn't conduct electricity at all. Water only conducts electricity because of the metal within it.
The pokemon types and their resistances/weaknesses themselves are somewhat flawed. Somehow, Flying, which usually refers to birds or wind, is strong against fighting...?
Lots of the types are named rather vaguely, so we don't even know what to classify them as. What is "Fairy"? Many verses have different definitions of "Fairies" to begin with.
The pokemon types and their resistances/weaknesses themselves are somewhat flawed. Somehow, Flying, which usually refers to birds or wind, is strong against fighting...?
Lots of the types are named rather vaguely, so we don't even know what to classify them as. What is "Fairy"? Many verses have different definitions of "Fairies" to begin with.
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I agree with DT's proposition
Edit: lol forgot to read TMRs comment, It makes sense as well, especially about the nature of dark types.
Edit: lol forgot to read TMRs comment, It makes sense as well, especially about the nature of dark types.
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- Thread starter
- #60
DT and TMR make sense.
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@Dragon *Sense
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Well I think we know how to handle the types now. I think this problem wrapped itself up nicely.
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- Thread starter
- #64
Any other opinions? Or can I close this?
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@Dragon You can close this now if you want to.
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