-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
About One-Shots
- Thread starter The_Wright_Way
- Start date
- 32,344
- 20,270
Yeah I am with Sera still.
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
Human Resources
- 16,898
- 7,347
This still has weird implications for verses where characters can kill one another quickly, like with the shotgun example above. It feels weird to have a shotgun be in a completely different tier due to that, and stuff like this can come up in, for instance, every single verse on my profile excluding the legend of Zelda.
- 771
- 153
That's like saying Vegeta is Dwarf Star Level during the Saiyan saga because there's only an 39x difference between him and Frieza's power level. Power Levels are exponential, not linear. Thus, they cannot be reliably used to scale the gap needed to one shot an opponent.Dark649 said:
- 10,758
- 6,482
Bump, because i want this to be resolved
- 15,436
- 7,856
- Thread starter
- #128
What one-shot baseline should be applied to scaling?
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
Human Resources
- 16,898
- 7,347
I kinda want to know what your suggestion would mean for verses like all the ones on my wall besides Zelda and Smash where comparable combatants can end their battles with just a few good blows or outright one shot one another. This would result in stuff like half the Destiny weapons being in a different tier from the Guardians, which I find really weird.
- 20,509
- 1,590
Ok so what's the final verdict?
- 10,758
- 6,482
@Earl We haven't really come to that yet. As things stand most if not all the suggestion here have some major issues with them.
- 10,758
- 6,482
@Sera Are you still arguing for your original suggestion btw? And if you are, how exactly would it work?
Is it like, if one character doesn't fall in the "+" territory of a tier and the other does, a one-shot would occur? Or something else entirely?
Is it like, if one character doesn't fall in the "+" territory of a tier and the other does, a one-shot would occur? Or something else entirely?
- 10,758
- 6,482
Okay...so this is half of an idea if anything on my part, but would it work if we use different values for different tiers? (I'm talking about entire tiers and not subgroups like 7-C,7-B,7-A btw)
This is because the higher tiers like tier 4 are too big to use gaps like 5x,7.5x, 10x etc which have been suggested here.
Of course this leaves the problem of finding a suitable, non arbitrarily chosen value for every tier and you still have a chance of running into a problem when trying to create cross tier matches (albert less so) but yeah, is anything likely to come out out of this suggestion?
This is because the higher tiers like tier 4 are too big to use gaps like 5x,7.5x, 10x etc which have been suggested here.
Of course this leaves the problem of finding a suitable, non arbitrarily chosen value for every tier and you still have a chance of running into a problem when trying to create cross tier matches (albert less so) but yeah, is anything likely to come out out of this suggestion?
- 235
- 335
Versus matches are a comparison of all stats. Attack Potency, Speed, Lifting Strength, Striking Strength, Durability, Range, and Intelligent as well as their powers/abilities, equipment, and notable techniques.
With that said, it's not an issue of "how much of a difference in an your attack potency:their durability ratio is required to OHKO or OHK the opponent, as the Tier System (which is determined primarily by attack potency) is similar in principle to weight classes in boxing. If you put a 3-B up against a 3-A, he will lose 90% of the time without hax due to the astronomical difference between both tiers.
The question that has not been asked is "What is the AP
ura gap required to make all other stats irrelevant, as the result is usually an automatic OHK or OHKO depending on the fight's requirements for victory. The nature of a stomp is when the difference between the combatants is so significant in one or more stats, that all other stats are comparatively useless.
With that said, it's not an issue of "how much of a difference in an your attack potency:their durability ratio is required to OHKO or OHK the opponent, as the Tier System (which is determined primarily by attack potency) is similar in principle to weight classes in boxing. If you put a 3-B up against a 3-A, he will lose 90% of the time without hax due to the astronomical difference between both tiers.
The question that has not been asked is "What is the AP
ura gap required to make all other stats irrelevant, as the result is usually an automatic OHK or OHKO depending on the fight's requirements for victory. The nature of a stomp is when the difference between the combatants is so significant in one or more stats, that all other stats are comparatively useless.
- 20,509
- 1,590
The one shot page seems fine. As soon as we settle on the difference for a 1shot and add that there it'll be pretty good.
As for the 1 shot i don't believe the "high [insert tier of the 1 shotted character]" is ok. As ppl have established power increases are not linear which means the higher we go into the tiering system (higher as in higher in potency) the less it will take to 1 shot a character (a lesser difference, since even being 1.5x stronger can be massive and easily capable of a 1 shot between galaxy level or multi galaxy level dudes), but out tiering system has increased difference with each tier. So while the power increases the difference instead of being lower and lower, it will start going in the trillions.
I think Gohan 1 shotting cell is a perfect (pun inteded) example here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIehR3fB0n8
Cell was trashing everyone casually before (gohan inculded when in ss1 form). Then gohan transforms into a ss2 which is a 2x multiplier from his ss1 form and he becomes strong enough to incap cell (to some extent) with a seemegly casual punch.
As for the 1 shot i don't believe the "high [insert tier of the 1 shotted character]" is ok. As ppl have established power increases are not linear which means the higher we go into the tiering system (higher as in higher in potency) the less it will take to 1 shot a character (a lesser difference, since even being 1.5x stronger can be massive and easily capable of a 1 shot between galaxy level or multi galaxy level dudes), but out tiering system has increased difference with each tier. So while the power increases the difference instead of being lower and lower, it will start going in the trillions.
I think Gohan 1 shotting cell is a perfect (pun inteded) example here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIehR3fB0n8
Cell was trashing everyone casually before (gohan inculded when in ss1 form). Then gohan transforms into a ss2 which is a 2x multiplier from his ss1 form and he becomes strong enough to incap cell (to some extent) with a seemegly casual punch.
- 12,524
- 3,491
DB characters get one shotted by anyone stronger since they have no hax.
- 235
- 335
DB characters get one shotted by anyone stronger because that's how it's written. Hax and other factors have nothing to do with it. Hit is more haxed than Jiren yet Jiren (via being more powerful and that's it), was resistant to Hit's hax and therefore won. Dragonball is a bad example.
- 12,524
- 3,491
DB hax is hardly even hax because you resist it by being stronger.
- 10,758
- 6,482
I don't see how this can be true when she's made it clear that this thread doesn't affect our standards for scaling whatsoeverDark649 said:
- 12,524
- 3,491
Thing is you don't even have to be stronger than someone to one-shot them.
- 32,344
- 20,270
Sewa and Pritti are right
- 6,104
- 5,102
The One-Shot page is fine and proof that this discussion has happened more than twice before. Again, the fact that Weekly and Bambu brought it back up after a few months (the one-shot page was made in June remember?) is a testament to what I said in the previous thread. If we define a value, we'll just be arguing about it again in December. I know this. So the so-called "5x gap" everyone kept bringing up is the equivalent of headcanon.
"The gap needed to qualify varies from verse to verse, which makes a one-shot from a VS Battles standpoint very hard to determine."
This was, is, and always will be the case. The page also clearly states that there are obvious cases of one-shotting such as a 5-C vs. 5-B. As Pritti said, those who participate in these vs threads need to stop playing the "AP measuring contest" and flatout ignore any othet stat that isn't speed and durability. Especially when most matches are between those with comparable physical stats and speed is commonly equalized anyway.
"The gap needed to qualify varies from verse to verse, which makes a one-shot from a VS Battles standpoint very hard to determine."
This was, is, and always will be the case. The page also clearly states that there are obvious cases of one-shotting such as a 5-C vs. 5-B. As Pritti said, those who participate in these vs threads need to stop playing the "AP measuring contest" and flatout ignore any othet stat that isn't speed and durability. Especially when most matches are between those with comparable physical stats and speed is commonly equalized anyway.
- 15,436
- 7,856
- Thread starter
- #158
And yet a large majority of people keep using it, more so than any other value, making it a good baseline.Sera EX said:
Case-by-case basis. If someone has feats of surviving hits from people 5x stronger than we adjust durability accordingly.
Wedon't always ignore speed and durability. I remember a thread where a 5-A beat a High 5-A solely on skill and durability.
